Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

[Volvictof]

speculation is no good for anybody. All it will do is harm the relationship between enthusiasts and staff.

Exactly. someone reads that comment and goes to the Facebook group but fails to mention it’s the musings of someone that isn’t an expert and that wasn’t even on the train and just tells people they heard its driver error. A drivers had a hard shift and doesn’t need comments like that on a forum they could easily read or that could easily get back to them or their manager potentially causing an investigation and leading to too few class 555 trained drivers available to run the new train until they are cleared.

It is exactly why drivers for the most part don’t engage with enthusiasts and will quite often call control to report a person taking photos on a platform, because there is simply very little good will. Imagined repercussions aside it’s just insulting speculation and would wind me right up if I were that driver.

 

[Billybongo123]

I was onboard the train when it happened, it played the 'Apologies for the sudden stop' announcement. That is all I am going to say for now. (More or less backs up the point the braking was harsh, again the braking was harsh because I was onboard.

 

[MetroTyler]

Exactly. someone reads that comment and goes to the Facebook group but fails to mention it’s the musings of someone that isn’t an expert and that wasn’t even on the train and just tells people they heard its driver error. A drivers had a hard shift and doesn’t need comments like that on a forum they could easily read or that could easily get back to them or their manager potentially causing an investigation and leading to too few class 555 trained drivers available to run the new train until they are cleared.

It is exactly why drivers for the most part don’t engage with enthusiasts and will quite often call control to report a person taking photos on a platform, because there is simply very little good will. Imagined repercussions aside it’s just insulting speculation and would wind me right up if I were that driver.

In regards to this certain Facebook group, it was asked if anyone could shed any light on what happened, where it was suggested that it could be a few other things including low rail adhesion but nothing added up and nobody seemed to know the answer and therefore nobody said any of those were exactly the case and nor am I, but it's very normal to be curious in a situation regarding such new stock as teething issues can occur.

I'm sorry this subject could be upsetting or insulting for drivers and management, I did not have any ill will, and the point was not to accuse people. I have a lot of faith in and respect for the Metro and Stadler staff and am confident in them to deliver a successful transition to the new fleet. Please take this apology instead of letting this drag out any longer and agree on the fact 555021 was taken out of service the other day. I know how I should've introduced the situation and will not be making any more posts on this.

 

[rg177]

555020 out on 121 today.

Edit - as the service is currently suspended through the Central corridor (unrelated to the Flyover issues) it'll be off diagram for the minute but is currently on the St James - Four Lane Ends service.

 

[Denco3]

Are the Stadlers still weekday only for the moment, or are they on any weekend diagrams?

 

[Tramfan]

Still just weekday for the moment

 

[rg177]

555021 on 121 6th Jan.

555020 on 121 7th Jan.

 

[esde84]

555020 developed a fault at South Gosforth this morning.

 

[DanNCL]

Two in service failures in a week now and there’s only one diagram. Hopefully this is just teething issues.

 

[Paul_10]

Two in service failures in a week now and there’s only one diagram. Hopefully this is just teething issues.

Wouldn't expect anything else as the UK's record with new trains is not the best to say the least.

The only thing I would say it's dissapointing that 2 different units have suffered faults instead of just the one. Like you say, hopefully just teething issues and we not going to head the same way as the 777s.

 

[rg177]

Fault was a door issue and brakes subsequently couldn't be released. Diagram is missing from service for the moment.

 

[Prime586]

Door and brake issues? It seems Stadler haven't learned anything from the 777's problematic introduction.

 

[DanNCL]

Door and brake issues? It seems Stadler haven't learned anything from the 777's problematic introduction.

Completely different issues to the 777s. The vast majority of issues with those were caused by the retrofitted guards panels, something the 555s don’t have.

 

[rg177]

555020 back in service.

 

[ExRes]

Wouldn't expect anything else as the UK's record with new trains is not the best to say the least.

Think how bad they'd be if they were made in the UK rather than by experts from overseas

 

[Prime586]

Completely different issues to the 777s. The vast majority of issues with those were caused by the retrofitted guards panels, something the 555s don’t have.

They door/step modules jamming and mechanical failures are not due to the dispatch system changes (the RFID reader was integrated into the existing door button panel design by the original Swiss manufacturer, with Stadler modifying the software to integrate it into the dispatch system). The 777s brake issues and the third rail shoes locking in the 'Up' position are not due to to the dispatch system changes either.

The only problem on the 777s directly attributable to the dispatch system changes is the failure to read the guard's RFID cards stopping the trains being dispatched.

 

[DanNCL]

Think how bad they'd be if they were made in the UK rather than by experts from overseas

Exactly. If they’d been built in any of the 3 UK sites operating at the time there’s no way they’d have been in service by now and who knows what state the Metrocars would have been in when finally replaced in such a scenario.

They door/step modules jamming and mechanical failures are not due to the dispatch system changes (the RFID reader was integrated into the existing door button panel design by the original Swiss manufacturer, with Stadler modifying the software to integrate it into the dispatch system). The 777s brake issues and the third rail shoes locking in the 'Up' position are not due to to the dispatch system changes either.

The only problem on the 777s directly attributable to the dispatch system changes is the failure to read the guard's RFID cards stopping the trains being dispatched.

Are the 777 door issues actually always mechanical failures though or is the software not always doing as it should? My understanding was that these door/step issues all started occurring when the software was modified for guard operation.
Third rail shoes are another issue that the 555s won’t have for the very simple reason that they don’t have third rail shoes.

Simply speaking, the 555s shouldn’t be having any of the same issues as the 777s, they’re completely different trains with completely different equipment and software.

 

[Paul_10]

Think how bad they'd be if they were made in the UK rather than by experts from overseas

That's not what I meant, I just mean the record of new trains being introduced to the UK railways and there being delays in introduction to service then issues in the first few months into service.

Exactly. If they’d been built in any of the 3 UK sites operating at the time there’s no way they’d have been in service by now and who knows what state the Metrocars would have been in when finally replaced in such a scenario.

A statement basing merely on opinion. I don't care where the trains come from but let's not pretend these 555s have been plain sailing. The first train arrived in early-ish in 2023 and now we are in very early 2025 and we have got a measley 1 diagram in service and a grand total of 13 trains on Tyneside. 25 trains was quoted by the MD of Nexus to be delivered this year, we shall see if that target gets reached or not.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That's not what I meant, I just mean the record of new trains being introduced to the UK railways and there being delays in introduction to service then issues in the first few months into service.



A statement basing merely on opinion. I don't care where the trains come from but let's not pretend these 555s have been plain sailing. The first train arrived in early-ish in 2023 and now we are in very early 2025 and we have got a measley 1 diagram in service and a grand total of 13 trains on Tyneside. 25 trains was quoted by the MD of Nexus to be delivered this year, we shall see if that target gets reached or not.

Everything new these days is so complicated. That means more to go wrong.

 

[DanNCL]

A statement basing merely on opinion. I don't care where the trains come from but let's not pretend these 555s have been plain sailing. The first train arrived in early-ish in 2023 and now we are in very early 2025 and we have got a measley 1 diagram in service and a grand total of 13 trains on Tyneside. 25 trains was quoted by the MD of Nexus to be delivered this year, we shall see if that target gets reached or not.

They’ve not been plain sailing but their equivalents built by CAF for the DLR have been considerably worse, the first of those was delivered before the first 555, and yet those aren’t even on daytime testing yet.

Then there’s Bombardier/Alstom, the 701s have been an absolute disaster too, the entire fleet of those should have been in service 4 years ago now and yet they’re still not managing more than a handful of diagrams.

As for Hitachi, the majority of their UK trains require structural modifications and availability of the 80xs is still dreadful.

Regarding deliveries, there’d be nearly 30 555s here now if there was space for them. But there isn’t space until more Metrocars leave, we’re at the point now where for every additional 555 delivered, two Metrocars will need to leave to make space. And long withdrawn cars with no chance of a return to service such as 01 and 40 are part of the problem.

So yes, I think that in comparison to the contemporary vehicles built by companies with UK manufacturing site, the 555s have been a lot smoother.

 

[rg177]

555020 out on 121 today.

Edit - 555020 is now on 122 (previously uncovered due to cold weather fleet issues) and 555021 should enter service as 121 at South Gosforth at 15:58 (or earlier). So this is the first day of having two out at once.

 

[MetroTyler]

How late in the day/night does T122 run?

 

[rg177]

How late in the day/night does T122 run?

It isn't an early evening return so theoretically until 00:01 when it gets back to the depot.

However it's likely it'll finish at a similar time to 121 or be swapped. So perhaps 19:19 at South Gosforth.

 

[MetroTyler]

Nope, it's going back to St James. Will report where it's going after it terminates. Looks pretty readied for midnight.

 

[rg177]

If there are competent staff available then it may well just run to the end of the diagram. There weren't any all-day 555 diagrams planned for a good while, hence my doubts, but for this evening it'd be a sensible move considering the low availability of the old fleet.

 

[MetroTyler]

If there are competent staff available then it may well just run to the end of the diagram. There weren't any all-day 555 diagrams planned for a good while, hence my doubts, but for this evening it'd be a sensible move considering the low availability of the old fleet.

Yeah, that's exactly why there's two. It is at Percy Main heading for South Shields right now.

 

[rg177]

555s are on 121 and 124 today. The latter is an early evening return and just for today to assist with 599 availability.

For the rest of today - 124 departs South Shields 0932, 1244, 1556 and St James 1110, 1422, 1730. Last journey terminates Pelaw and forms an 1845 Pelaw to South Gosforth.

Units are once again 555020 (124) and 555021 (121).

 

[Peter Sarf]

555s are on 121 and 124 today. The latter is an early evening return and just for today to assist with 599 availability.

For the rest of today - 124 departs South Shields 0932, 1244, 1556 and St James 1110, 1422, 1730. Last journey terminates Pelaw and forms an 1845 Pelaw to South Gosforth.

Units are once again 555020 (124) and 555021 (121).

I feel tangible progress for these Stadler units coming on.
Certainly compared to the 701s !.

 

[MetroTyler]

I feel tangible progress for these Stadler units coming on.
Certainly compared to the 701s !.

Of course, not without issues, however. After a few abrupt stops on the way to South Shields, 555020 needed to perform a full restart at South Shields with passengers on board. A standard software teething issue and a simple component of progress.
I am looking forward to seeing how these trains will develop into a full running fleet.

 

[Paul_10]

I think going by the press release, there will be metrocars still in service going into next year. It will be interesting too see if every new unit will be delivered before the final metrocars get retired or not.

I'm also interested too see when this promise of a 10minute frequency will occur, this was a big factor to duel the track on the South Shields line. How many extra diagrams would there be for a 10min frequency? Can't imagine it be all that many.