Uckfield to Oxted services, ECS at Oxted from P1 to P3

[Kite159]

Sorry if wrong forum

Is there any particular reason when the Uckfield - Oxted services terminate at Oxted arrive into platform 1 before reversing out of the station as an ECS before coming back into the station into the bay platform to form the next service to Uckfield?

With the conductor advising passengers for stations beyond Oxted to change onto a Victoria service at Hurst Green it doesn't seem logical (in my eyes)

 

[tsr]

There's nowhere for the train to go at Hurst Green without waiting somewhere inconvenient. At Oxted, the bay platform is out of the way, and allows an Up service from East Grinstead and two Down services (plus the 1805 London Bridge to Uckfield, if it's running late) to use Platforms 1 and 2. If the need arises, you can even have a service wait in Platform 2 to load & unload whilst the shunt takes place over the viaduct.

If the shunt doesn't work, there will be a train behind the terminating service on Platform 1 waiting to enter the station for quite a long time (there are already several risks, such as driver changes, in the process).

As an aside, this is also why the stock diagram involving Oxted-Uckfield shuttles is only ever for a 2 or 4 car formation. The bay can hold a maximum of 4 coaches of 171 stock or (theoretically, but I've never actually seen it) 6 coaches of 377 stock. Door deselect to only release doors on 3 coaches is required in the bay for 4 car 171s.

Lastly, current training for conductors says that passengers should ideally be advised to change trains at Oxted not Hurst Green. Oxted has more services, is staffed first-last train, and is generally a better place to wait. There are one or two customers who decide to change at Hurst Green against conductors' advice at times; it's very rarely a big deal, but sadly it's a case of the bad luck resting on them if they do it anyway and then get stranded whilst something skips their stop or turns back at Oxted!

 

[30907]

In addition, the crossover only has a shunt signal.
The layout wasn't altered on electrification and the pattern of working goes back decades, in fact probably to when the LBSCR introduced steam rail motors about 1910!

 

[Kite159]

In addition, the crossover only has a shunt signal.
The layout wasn't altered on electrification and the pattern of working goes back decades, in fact probably to when the LBSCR introduced steam rail motors about 1910!

That probably explains why they don't go straight into the bay as the crossover only has a shunt signal.

 

[Trainfan344]

That probably explains why they don't go straight into the bay as the crossover only has a shunt signal.

And the fact that the crossover can't access the bay directly

 

[Crossover]

I recall from when I visited a few years ago that the trains have to shunt out into the bay. At the time I visited, the electrification in the bay was new, too

 

[tsr]

I recall from when I visited a few years ago that the trains have to shunt out into the bay. At the time I visited, the electrification in the bay was new, too

Indeed so. A standard procedure is:

Train arrives on Platform 1 and terminates.
Driver hands over train and new driver walks to South end.
At the same time, conductor walks through the train and detrains anyone needing assistance/confused passengers/stragglers.
Driver sets up cab and conductor closes doors.
When the GPL signal at the country end is cleared, conductor gives 2 (6 is not usually used on the Uckfield line except for the Crowborough shunts, and the Ashurst one which only about 3 people remember) and driver repeats.
Driver draws forward onto the Down line over Oxted Viaduct, ensuring they are clear of the GPL signal behind the train if they do not know for sure.
Driver changes ends.
Conductor moves to correct panel for opening doors (noting Door Deselect on 4-car 171s) as driver moves into bay on receiving "two whites" on GPL.
Driver waits to allow all doors from conductor's to driver's key to be opened by conductor (171s) or releases doors (377s).
Crew change ends *again*.
Cup of tea/coffee.
Held for the East Grinstead again.

 

[physics34]

Indeed so. A standard procedure is:

Train arrives on Platform 1 and terminates.
Driver hands over train and new driver walks to South end.
At the same time, conductor walks through the train and detrains anyone needing assistance/confused passengers/stragglers.
Driver sets up cab and conductor closes doors.
When the GPL signal at the country end is cleared, conductor gives 2 (6 is not usually used on the Uckfield line except for the Crowborough shunts, and the Ashurst one which only about 3 people remember) and driver repeats.
Driver draws forward onto the Down line over Oxted Viaduct, ensuring they are clear of the GPL signal behind the train if they do not know for sure.
Driver changes ends.
Conductor moves to correct panel for opening doors (noting Door Deselect on 4-car 171s) as driver moves into bay on receiving "two whites" on GPL.
Driver waits to allow all doors from conductor's to driver's key to be opened by conductor (171s) or releases doors (377s).
Crew change ends *again*.
Cup of tea/coffee.
Held for the East Grinstead again.

Unless you have a 2x 2 171s as i had a year or so ago.!!

reverse out of platform 1 with conductor in the now front cab to operate emergency brake.....if need be!

 

[tsr]

Unless you have a 2x 2 171s as i had a year or so ago.!!

reverse out of platform 1 with conductor in the now front cab to operate emergency brake.....if need be!

It would take me all evening to type out the two-man shunt and all its strange permutations... I know someone who very nearly got thrown by being asked to do it via the London end...

 

[physics34]

It would take me all evening to type out the two-man shunt and all its strange permutations... I know someone who very nearly got thrown by being asked to do it via the London end...

ha ha oops, no thats not a done thing!!

The reversing shouldnt really be done in wet weather as windscreen wipers dont work without key on in that cab

 

[tsr]

ha ha oops, no thats not a done thing!!

The reversing shouldnt really be done in wet weather as windscreen wipers dont work without key on in that cab

In the event of wipers not working, you are meant to resource an Assisting Conductor with a mop

 

[gtr driver]

Maybe if they actually ever reinstate and electrify Hurst Green to Lewes we might see an all day hourly Oxted - Lewes shuttle to alternate with the hourly London Bridge - Seaford train. It would make surely make sense to put in an up crossover then to avoid the daft shenanigans that go on now. Or maybe they'll just introduce permissive working at Oxted and start loping four off the overlong off peak Grinsteads to go to Lewes. Feels like I'll never experience it at the moment though!

 

[30907]

Maybe if they actually ever reinstate and electrify Hurst Green to Lewes we might see an all day hourly Oxted - Lewes shuttle to alternate with the hourly London Bridge - Seaford train. It would make surely make sense to put in an up crossover then to avoid the daft shenanigans that go on now. Or maybe they'll just introduce permissive working at Oxted and start loping four off the overlong off peak Grinsteads to go to Lewes. Feels like I'll never experience it at the moment though!

I suspect Up passengers would grumble though. Can't think of anywhere else where such a civilised arrangement involving a "branch" train survives - think Wareham was the last and thats over 40 years ago.