Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Mikey C]

I'm not quite sure if the workers at Bamford would be very happy to hear you say that they have low morals

No wonder the company was smited

 

[MotCO]

Good luck given that Optare can't even for fill orders for the diesel variants that have been on order for at least 2 years.

RouteOne also covers this story but says that "The first order for the Metrodecker H2 should be signed soon and the initial examples are scheduled to enter service in 2021. " https://www.route-one.net/news/optare-and-arcola-announce-fuel-cell-metrodecker-h2/

 

[Jordan Adam]

RouteOne also covers this story but says that "The first order for the Metrodecker H2 should be signed soon and the initial examples are scheduled to enter service in 2021. " https://www.route-one.net/news/optare-and-arcola-announce-fuel-cell-metrodecker-h2/

Fair point, however the fact the deal "should" be signed "soon" is probably hinting to the fact they're not sure. ADL said much the same thing in 2015 in regards to Enviro350 Virtual Electrics entering service in Glasgow the following year, this of course never happened.

 

[Mikey C]

Have Optare sold more non diesel Metrodekkers than plain diesel ones?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Have Optare sold more non diesel Metrodekkers than plain diesel ones?

Given that thus far diesel deliveries in total equal 0 yes!

(The demo that Reading have doesn't count as this wasn't ordered by them, it was bought after it's demonstration period was over)

 

[Volvodart]

I'll be interested to see what the Bamford era Wright's end up being like, given the huge quality issues in the latter days of Wright's before they went into administration.

Was the quality loss due to a desperation to deliver orders, or cheapening of component quality to reduce costs? I don't think it was the designs as earlier versions of the Gemini 3 don't seem as bad as the newer ones?

Or will the problems continue as you have largely the same workforce, assembling the same products, in the same factory?

The new Wrightbus have JCB people working in there. The feeling I get is that Wrightbus had not moved with the times and there will be cost savings in procedures and things like that. You would not have thought that Bamford would have had to delve too deeply to find the quality issues, so I assume that will be dealt with.

 

[Volvodart]

Bus makers appeal for urgent aid after cancelled orders

://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/09/bus-makers-appeal-urgent-aid-cancelled-orders/

Alexander Dennis, Wrightbus and Optare have written to the Transport Secretary for help

By
Oliver Gill
9 May 2020 • 8:00pm
A double decker bus on the production line at Alexander Dennis Limited's plant in Falkirk
Alexander Dennis is Britain's biggest bus builder CREDIT: Andrew Milligan /PA
Bus makers are calling on ministers to unlock £800m of state aid after operators cancelled orders in response to coronavirus.

Alexander Dennis, Wrightbus and Optare have written to Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, to “secure the future of UK bus manufacturing and safeguard thousands of jobs”. The letter, seen by The Telegraph, reveals manufacturers’ order books are 75pc down.

Bus makers are calling on ministers to unlock £800m of state aid after operators cancelled orders in response to coronavirus.

Alexander Dennis, Wrightbus and Optare have written to Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, to “secure the future of UK bus manufacturing and safeguard thousands of jobs”. The letter, seen by The Telegraph, reveals manufacturers’ order books are 75pc down.

It says: “Without immediate support, future orders will not be forthcoming, putting jobs, apprenticeship opportunities and the wider supply chain at risk. It is vital that government funding is used immediately to enable bus operators to invest in their fleets, and the UK’s manufacturing base, with confidence.”

The companies suggest funding options such as bus scrappage schemes, grants and the financing of leasing arrangements.

Ministers last month signed off on £400m of financial support for bus operators through a series of grants and compensation for loss of earnings.

 

[MotCO]

Bus makers appeal for urgent aid after cancelled orders

://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/09/bus-makers-appeal-urgent-aid-cancelled-orders/

In order to stimulate demand for buses, now is the time for the Government to provide funding to encourage the ordering of alternative fuel buses, preferably battery since that would aid at least Optare and AD.

 

[GusB]

The discussion about ADL developing bendy-buses and other products has been moved here:

Should UK manufacturers develop more products for Continental Europe?

*MOD NOTE* - The discussion in this thread was originally in this thread, but due to it being speculative rather than actual news it warranted a separate thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/uk-bus-manufacturer-news-adl-optare-wright-etc.185467/ A bit too ambitious I know, but it would...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Surreyman]

Wrightbus announce redundancies

Thursday 21 May 2020 15:52
Bus manufacturer Wrightbus has today announced a number of redundancies at its factory in Ballymena as it looks to create a stable and secure future for the company in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.
Chief Executive Buta Atwal said the tough decision has been taken to make up to 35 permanent employees redundant pending consultation, as well as a reduction in agency staff of up to 90 workers over a phased period that will be kept under review. The move is vital to secure a stronger future for the business which is urging politicians to support its drive to produce 3,000 hydrogen buses in the next four years.
The 575 staff that remain would be more than a ten-fold increase in the number of employees inherited by the management team when it bought Wrightbus out of administration in October 2019, with hopes to grow the workforce to 1,000 by the end of 2021.
“When we saved Wrightbus from administration last year, there were only about 50 employees, and since then we have grown the workforce to 700,” said Mr Atwal.
“The decision has been taken to trim the workforce to the size we believe we will need to see us through to the end of the year.”
The redundancies are a necessary measure given the economic slowdown as a result of the current Coronavirus crisis. However, it has not altered the long-term vision of prosperity for the company.
“Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, while we furloughed a large section of the workforce, we also kept about 100 engineers, designers and sales staff working to make sure we can take future orders of buses and work on long-term projects, which will provide security and stability for Wrightbus in the coming years,” said Mr Atwal.
The Wrightbus factory has created the world’s first hydrogen-electric double-decker bus, which emits only water and there is a great belief that in the coming years this will see a large number of orders come in.
There are already strong sales for the delivery of buses in London and Aberdeen this year, with more cities due to follow suit.
Mr Atwal said: “We see the future in zero-emission hydrogen and battery-electric transport and have positioned the business accordingly. Our vision is to have 1,000 people working for us by the end of 2021 and we hope to be in a position to re-hire some of those who have been made redundant.
“We believe green fuel is the future and will bring a brighter future to Northern Ireland over the coming years.”
A consultation will begin with staff on Monday, May 25, and Wrightbus will be supporting staff throughout the process, even if this has to be done virtually due to current Government guidelines.

 

[GusB]

Wrightbus announce redundancies

Thursday 21 May 2020 15:52
Bus manufacturer Wrightbus has today announced a number of redundancies at its factory in Ballymena as it looks to create a stable and secure future for the company in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.
Chief Executive Buta Atwal said the tough decision has been taken to make up to 35 permanent employees redundant pending consultation, as well as a reduction in agency staff of up to 90 workers over a phased period that will be kept under review. The move is vital to secure a stronger future for the business which is urging politicians to support its drive to produce 3,000 hydrogen buses in the next four years.
The 575 staff that remain would be more than a ten-fold increase in the number of employees inherited by the management team when it bought Wrightbus out of administration in October 2019, with hopes to grow the workforce to 1,000 by the end of 2021.
“When we saved Wrightbus from administration last year, there were only about 50 employees, and since then we have grown the workforce to 700,” said Mr Atwal.
“The decision has been taken to trim the workforce to the size we believe we will need to see us through to the end of the year.”
The redundancies are a necessary measure given the economic slowdown as a result of the current Coronavirus crisis. However, it has not altered the long-term vision of prosperity for the company.
“Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, while we furloughed a large section of the workforce, we also kept about 100 engineers, designers and sales staff working to make sure we can take future orders of buses and work on long-term projects, which will provide security and stability for Wrightbus in the coming years,” said Mr Atwal.
The Wrightbus factory has created the world’s first hydrogen-electric double-decker bus, which emits only water and there is a great belief that in the coming years this will see a large number of orders come in.
There are already strong sales for the delivery of buses in London and Aberdeen this year, with more cities due to follow suit.
Mr Atwal said: “We see the future in zero-emission hydrogen and battery-electric transport and have positioned the business accordingly. Our vision is to have 1,000 people working for us by the end of 2021 and we hope to be in a position to re-hire some of those who have been made redundant.
“We believe green fuel is the future and will bring a brighter future to Northern Ireland over the coming years.”
A consultation will begin with staff on Monday, May 25, and Wrightbus will be supporting staff throughout the process, even if this has to be done virtually due to current Government guidelines.

Could you post a link to the source of this, please?

 

[Eyersey468]

Wrightbus to cut up to 125 jobs due to coronavirus - BBC News

The Ballymena bus builder says it is a "necessary measure" in response to Covid-19 pandemic.

www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

A quick Google found this.

 

[Volvodart]

The supplier for the fuel cells for the Wrightbus hydrogen buses, Ballard, has just announced a further order for 15, plus the issue with the previous ones for London and Aberdeen following the administration has been resolved, so any not at Wrightbus currently should be on their way there fairly soon.

 

[cnjb8]

Hello,
After reading the GoCornwall Bus thread and the debate on their about wether their new Enviro400s should be City's or MMCs, can the City vehicle be built with an engine suited for non-city work?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Hello,
After reading the GoCornwall Bus thread and the debate on their about wether their new Enviro400s should be City's or MMCs, can the City vehicle be built with an engine suited for non-city work?

Of course!
One of my bus companies, Southern Transit, has 2 ADL Enviro400 Cities and they are used on private hire! If that's the case I'm sure the E400 City would be suited to non-city work.
Indeed, there's the Excel by First. A long distance route running all the way from Peterborough to Norwich using ADL Enviro400 City bodied Scania N250UDs. In my opinion, Go Cornwall should order E400 Cities on Scania chassis if possible, as in my opinion Scania are more suited to interurban / regional / rural stuff because they seem to perform better than ADL chassis E400 Cities do.

 

[cnjb8]

Of course!
One of my bus companies, Southern Transit, has 2 ADL Enviro400 Cities and they are used on private hire! If that's the case I'm sure the E400 City would be suited to non-city work.
Indeed, there's the Excel by First. A long distance route running all the way from Peterborough to Norwich using ADL Enviro400 City bodied Scania N250UDs. In my opinion, Go Cornwall should order E400 Cities on Scania chassis if possible, as in my opinion Scania are more suited to interurban / regional / rural stuff because they seem to perform better than ADL chassis E400 Cities do.

That makes sense!
To be fair I don't think GCB would go for the Scania combo.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

That makes sense!
To be fair I don't think GCB would go for the Scania combo.

Sadly I don't think they would either, seeing that GoAhead prefers ADL versions...

 

[Goldfish62]

Hello,
After reading the GoCornwall Bus thread and the debate on their about wether their new Enviro400s should be City's or MMCs, can the City vehicle be built with an engine suited for non-city work?

Exactly the same driveline as the MMC. Just some styling differences on the bodywork.

 

[didbygraham]

The "City" is just a marketing name for the different body style/ construction, it does not imply its only for City use. I think its more than just a few styling differences but I may be wrong. Certainly the Citys seem to have excellent headroom = I can stand up upstairs and downstairs without having to stoop whereas on Stagecoach's MMCs there is slightly less headroom. The new Plymouth / Cornwall buses when they arrive will be ADL chassis.

 

[jammy36]

The "City" is just a marketing name for the different body style/ construction, it does not imply its only for City use. I think its more than just a few styling differences but I may be wrong. Certainly the Citys seem to have excellent headroom = I can stand up upstairs and downstairs without having to stoop whereas on Stagecoach's MMCs there is slightly less headroom. The new Plymouth / Cornwall buses when they arrive will be ADL chassis.

The body (MMC and now City also) is available in two heights. Stagecoach (for operational flexibility) favour the low height (4.2m) bodywork, whereas most Citys are to full height (4.3m) - the height difference only being noticeable upstairs.

First Kernow as an example have both heights in their fleet. The 66-plate intake being full height and the 18-plates low height.

First Kernow MMC WK66BYW seen arriving in Camborne on Delivery. 7th October 2016

First Kernow Enviro 400 MMC WK66BYW seen arriving in Camborne on Delivery. This is part of the first batch of ten, to be Fleet 33470 - 33479 to be used on the U1/U2 and U3 routes from 4th Nov. 7th October 2016

www.flickr.com

33302 WK18CFP on loan to SPS

Here we see First Kernow 33302 WK18CFP photographed on loan to SPS operating route J24s to Hinkley Point power station on Cannington by pass. Taken June 2020.

www.flickr.com

Hard to spot externally, but most obvious in the size of black panel around the destination display between the decks on the front.

 

[MotCO]

The City version was designed to be a 'New Routemaster' look-a-like for London, but they are just cosmetic changes. The Scania version does seem to be favoured for longer distance routes - Stagecoach I think use them, and as @cjnb8 says, First use them on the Excel routes. I'm not sure if it is better fuel consumption, gearing ratios or anything else which makes them more suitable for this work.

 

[Beemax]

Reading has a number of City versions on a CNG powered Scania chassis. I don't think ADL themselves offer a CNG version

 

[83G/84D]

Alexander Dennis announce a restructuring with job losses likely:-

ADL MOVES TO LEANER MANUFACTURING MODEL AS FALLING DEMAND FOR NEW BUSES AND COACHES FORCES COMPANY TO ADJUST

Published: 27 Jul 2020



Alexander Dennis Limited (“ADL”), a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc. (“NFI”), one of the world’s largest independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that as a result of the significant decline in UK demand for new buses and coaches, it is forced to initiate a restructuring programme which places up to 650 jobs at risk.

With many UK customers not in a position to place orders for new vehicles following the impact of lockdown, social distancing and low passenger numbers, ADL has utilised the UK Government’s Job Retention Scheme as well as implementing salary reductions and reduced working hours for non-furloughed staff, along with stringent cost saving measures across all business functions. However, the steps taken so far are insufficient to align the company’s cost base to the current economic reality and it now seeks to move to a leaner, more flexible manufacturing model that maintains its strong customer focus and best-in-class aftermarket support.

A formal consultation will begin in the coming weeks on the restructuring programme, which places up to 650 jobs at risk across all functions and at all of ADL’s facilities in the UK.

Colin Robertson, who is transitioning from his role as ADL’s Chief Executive to join NFI’s Board as Vice Chair, said: “A few short months ago, we were looking at a record year of sales, reaping the benefits of all our investment in new technology, new products and new markets. All of this changed with the impact of COVID-19.

“Since March, we have been in constant dialogue with the UK and Scottish Governments to make them aware of the unprecedented crisis facing our industry. We are deeply grateful for the support offered by the UK Government’s Job Retention Scheme, and we are heartened by the Prime Minister’s reiteration earlier this month of the pledge he made in February to bring 4,000 new green buses into service. We continue to call upon both Governments to act now to prevent further job cuts and preserve the UK’s world-leading bus and coach manufacturing industry.”

ADL remains firmly committed to working with its customers and supporting the bus and coach operating industry which itself is battling an unprecedented crisis. Paul Davies, ADL President & Managing Director, explains: “As the UK’s leading bus builder and the world leader in double deck buses, we aim to continue to play a key role in delivering on Governments’ congestion, decarbonisation and clean air targets. We have the technology, experience, skilled workforce, capacity and commitment to deliver thousands of new green buses.”

The changes at ADL are part of a wider restructuring programme announced by NFI, affecting ADL’s sister companies in the United States and Canada along with the consolidation of ADL’s spare parts business in North America into NFI Parts.

https://www.alexander-dennis.com/me...w-buses-and-coaches-forces-company-to-adjust/

 

[37114]

Alexander Dennis announce a restructuring with job losses likely:-



https://www.alexander-dennis.com/me...w-buses-and-coaches-forces-company-to-adjust/

Sadly to be expected unfortunately, it seems demand for new buses is likely to take a few years to ramp up.

In the medium term I wonder how long ADL will continue to make their own chassis? They are gaining a lot of orders for BYD based Electrics with customers like NX West Midlands, First and London all committing to zero emission only buses in the next few years. In addition there are a few operators playing with Gas (Nottingham, Reading, Bristol) but on Scania chassis while Lothian seem to be the last bastions of Volvo bus supporters. I imagine Hybrids will disappear within the next 3 to 5 years as will straight Diesel so does make you wonder if ADL will focus just on bodying other providers chassis.

 

[Romsey]

BBC link about job losses at Alexander Dennis

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-53558309

 

[Mikey C]

Sadly to be expected unfortunately, it seems demand for new buses is likely to take a few years to ramp up.

In the medium term I wonder how long ADL will continue to make their own chassis? They are gaining a lot of orders for BYD based Electrics with customers like NX West Midlands, First and London all committing to zero emission only buses in the next few years. In addition there are a few operators playing with Gas (Nottingham, Reading, Bristol) but on Scania chassis while Lothian seem to be the last bastions of Volvo bus supporters. I imagine Hybrids will disappear within the next 3 to 5 years as will straight Diesel so does make you wonder if ADL will focus just on bodying other providers chassis.

I can't imagine their parent NFI wanting ADL going forward to be so dependant on Chinese electric chassis, I imagine NFI/ADL will eventually want to do that as well

 

[LOL The Irony]

I can't imagine their parent NFI wanting ADL going forward to be so dependant on Chinese electric chassis, I imagine NFI/ADL will eventually want to do that as well

Don't NFI make their own electric chassis?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Reading has a number of City versions on a CNG powered Scania chassis. I don't think ADL themselves offer a CNG version

To be pedantic they're CBG (Compression Bio-Gas) rather than CNG.

The body (MMC and now City also) is available in two heights. Stagecoach (for operational flexibility) favour the low height (4.2m) bodywork, whereas most Citys are to full height (4.3m) - the height difference only being noticeable upstairs.

First Kernow as an example have both heights in their fleet. The 66-plate intake being full height and the 18-plates low height.

First Kernow MMC WK66BYW seen arriving in Camborne on Delivery. 7th October 2016

First Kernow Enviro 400 MMC WK66BYW seen arriving in Camborne on Delivery. This is part of the first batch of ten, to be Fleet 33470 - 33479 to be used on the U1/U2 and U3 routes from 4th Nov. 7th October 2016

www.flickr.com

33302 WK18CFP on loan to SPS

Here we see First Kernow 33302 WK18CFP photographed on loan to SPS operating route J24s to Hinkley Point power station on Cannington by pass. Taken June 2020.

www.flickr.com

Hard to spot externally, but most obvious in the size of black panel around the destination display between the decks on the front.

The City is only available on the full height body.

 

[jcf5561]

To be pedantic they're CBG (Compression Bio-Gas) rather than CNG.



The City is only available on the full height body.

Aren't Stagecoach Manchester's BYD MMC Citys not low height? I'm sure they are.

 

[D2007wsm]

To be pedantic they're CBG (Compression Bio-Gas) rather than CNG.



The City is only available on the full height body.

This maybe why in Bristol earlier this year the metrobus service m3 was swapped from Scania chasis E400s with low height bodywork to Scania CNG Citys, the m2 wasn’t.

The m2 has to be a low height body to go over an ex swing bridge which carried a railway line. Apparently, even though ADL offer a low height integral E400MMC, the guidewheels for the guided bus way can’t be attached, whereas they can be on a Scania chasis.