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Uk Railtours/DB Schenker

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Tubeboy

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http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=b36a5ca242e42976740b8d5f4&id=9ab266ecb3&e=f591d3aa4f

THE DB SCHENKER TRAINCREW CRISIS

A STATEMENT FROM JOHN FARROW OF UK RAILTOURS

It is now three o’clock in the morning on Friday 2 November. I’ve not had much sleep lately so I may as well make a cup of tea and share a few things with you. It is, of course, all to do with the drivers’ issues that have dogged DB Schenker for months.

August and September saw DB Schenker crippled by industrial action involving the drivers’ union ASLEF. In October agreement was reached and we all breathed a sigh of relief. But we were in for a nasty surprise. It wasn’t the end and lots of DBS trains (not just charters) are still being cancelled at short notice because of non-availability of drivers. A lot of people are getting seriously fed up and are wondering what on earth is going on.

Literally thousands of customers have had their long-awaited days out ruined. But it’s more than that. There is a whole chain of people whose livelihoods depend upon charter trains. Tour companies like ourselves, Pathfinder and Steam Dreams have all had their businesses threatened, then there’s the rolling stock owners, the depot staff, the catering companies, the train cleaners, the train managers, the guards, the list goes on. Yet DBS simply buries its head in the sand, staggers from each crisis to the next and seems totally unable to communicate effectively with those who suffer the consequences of its actions.

WHAT WAS THE STRIKE ALL ABOUT?

I will try and keep this short and simple. There was a pay issue, but that was the easy bit and it was quickly resolved. More fundamentally, DBS had failed to listen to the voice of the most important people in its production line, namely its drivers. Long-standing rostering issues had been left unresolved, not just for months but for years. The rosters had not reflected changes in traffic patterns and had become totally out of date and unworkable. Drivers tell me they were being phoned up at all hours of the day and night to come and rescue DBS from the consequences of its own poor management. The guys could not plan their private lives, and all in all they had just about had enough. They were not being awkward. Something had to go bang. And it did, big time!

Suffice to say that, in my opinion, ASLEF had a fair point and DBS management was found badly wanting. The effects shook the company from head to foot. But did any heads roll? We don’t know, but they certainly should have done.

WHY ARE THE CREWING PROBLEMS CONTINUING?

Again it’s complex but in simple terms it’s because the rather strange settlement reached with ASLEF, basically to do with drivers working their rest days, cannot yet be made to work properly. Network Rail (the biggest customer of DBS) has now gone ballistic because of DBS’s failures to operate a very large number of engineers’ trains that are necessary for the current upgrade of the network. It is a fair guess that the government has stuck its finger in too, because the massive programme of renewals is being paid for by taxpayers like you and me and if it’s not happening we all have a right to know why.

BUT IS THE ORIENT EXPRESS STILL RUNNING?

That’s the question you’re not meant to ask. We have no axe to grind with VSOE. They are a highly reputable business and have every right to try to protect their operations. But we do take issue with DBS. It is morally wrong that charters with a price tag of £300+ are all running as normal while those conveying you and me are being cancelled. Personally I would have expected ASLEF to take a view on this too. It is not acceptable.

DBS AT ITS BEST

There is no doubt that DB Schenker can run charters brilliantly when it wants to. In the recent past we have gone for months on end, even years, without any performance issues worthy of note, which is how it should be of course. Whether it’s a circular tour over the Settle & Carlisle or a Forgotten Tracks tour to Ferrybridge, Fiddlers Ferry or Boulby, they can do it, and do it really well.

DBS AT ITS WORST

We would normally not hang out dirty washing in public, but the performance of DBS last Friday was nothing short of shameful. Loco 67025 was turned out in a state that was not only defective but probably dangerous, and DBS’s obsessive refusal to let a perfectly serviceable 67021 bring the train back from Holyhead single handed in case it picked up a few minutes delay costs resulted in an arrival back after 01.00. To be fair, DBS provided free taxis home from Euston for those that needed them, but the whole thing should never have happened and our claim for compensation has not been properly addressed. Tragically for one very long-standing customer it was all too much. He never made it home and never will.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

We are in the process of moving business away from DB Schenker to other operators. This process could be partly halted by the immediate intervention of Nigel Smith, Managing Director of DB Schenker Construction, which is the business sector responsible for its passenger train operations. He returns from holiday on Monday. We will be asking him for an end to cancellations with immediate effect and an apology on behalf of DBS. I have known Nigel for many years and he is certainly a ‘no nonsense’ bloke who makes things happen. Let’s see.

KEEPING YOU INFORMED

There will be further newsletters in the next few days as things unfold. No doubt the contents of this one will be well reported on all manner of websites and in the railway press and we have no problem with that. The time for keeping quiet and hoping this will all get better on its own has passed.

TRAIN BY TRAIN

Here is a summary of our intentions for all remaining tours from now until year end. We do not have any more information yet, so PLEASE do not call our office with enquiries as we are snowed under with the task of processing, changing and cancelling bookings. We will not be able to tell you anything more for the moment.


THE AMMAN VALLEY RANGER - SATURDAY 3 NOVEMBER

We were given just three days’ notice by DB Schenker that this train would be cancelled. That in itself is lousy service. Nevertheless we believe that all booked passengers have now been informed, a great tribute to Liz, Holly and Roger in our office. Well done!

We had intended to refund everybody straight away, but so many people have asked us to re-date the trip that we are going to try.

There are issues to address. Firstly it will require a new derogation by the Office of the Rail Regulator, due to unique operating features of the Gwaun-cae-Gurwen branch which we won’t go into here. Secondly the trip is too long for the very short days of midwinter. Thirdly the tour becomes impossible from Easter onwards because of Reading remodelling which will prevent any extra trains (not just charters) passing through or stopping there for two whole years.

If you are happy to wait a few days until we know more about a new date then take no action. If you would like a refund to your card then email us and this will be done. Please do not telephone - thank you.

THE WORTH VALLEY WANDERER – SATURDAY 3 NOVEMBER

This is a charity trip operated by East Midlands Trains with ourselves acting as ticketing agents. It is totally unaffected by the DBS crisis. However it is fully booked so please do not turn up on chance.

THE PENNINE PANORAMA - SATURDAY 10 NOVEMBER

This is now our most immediate concern. We are presently working with DBS and one other operator to find a joint solution that will enable this trip to go ahead. This is a new approach to the ongoing problem and we will know more early next week. Tickets have not yet been posted. We remain hopeful that a solution will be found. This site will be updated as more information becomes available. We thank you for your understanding. Please do not telephone - thank you.

THE ST NICHOLAS FAYRE IN YORK – SATURDAY 1 DECEMBER
THE LINCOLN CHRISTMAS MARKET – SATURDAY 8 DECEMBER

These two trips are operated by East Midlands Trains and are totally unaffected by the DBS crisis. Standard Class seats are still available on both but First Class Dining is fully booked.

THE SHORT-HAIRED BUMBLEBEE – SATURDAY 15 DECEMBER
CAROLS AT BEVERLEY MINSTER – SATURDAY 22 DECEMBER
THE SOLENT WITNESS – FRIDAY 28 DECEMBER

Arrangements are well in hand to transfer all three trips to alternative train operators. DB Schenker could possibly still partly stop this happening by giving us an immediate written guarantee regarding traincrew provision.

If you know a customer who is not online and you would like to convey the contents of this newsletter to him or her, that would be very kind. Thank you for reading this newsletter and for your understanding. Another will follow as soon as we have something more to tell you.

That will not be very long.

Sounds like John Farrow has had enough, putting it mildly!
 
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Great Central

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Not surprising. Last Friday's trip which I was on was exasperating. Delayed nearly 2 hours outbound at Nuneaton when 67025 was failed.
Retimed to return from Bangor at 1830 instead of 1745 - train finally appeared at 2020 and departed 2035! All down to DBS not UK Railtours who did their best to make things happen when they could get any information from DBS. Finally got back to Watford at 0029 instead of 2120.
As a long standing customer I applaud John for speaking out about this very shoddy management by a major company. Unless this is sorted out I fear for the future of charters and charter companies.
 

dfurn

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Hmm does the posting from John Farrow imply someone died? That's terrible, if so.
 

junglejames

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Hmm does the posting from John Farrow imply someone died? That's terrible, if so.

What is even more terrible, is that the wording used, implies it was the delays (caused by DBS) that caused the fatality (if that is what it is). Mr Farrow needs to look at how he words things. He may not be happy with DBS, but to try and make out that they are responsible for someone passing away, when obviously that is not the case, is an extremely poor use of words.
 

gazthomas

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I think rail tours are a dying scene. Inadequate rolling stock, insufficient traction interest, high prices with feed, high intensity railway timetables and you can only do the S&C or go to York so many times!

A shame, as I'm on the HST trip tomorrow to the KWVR, so get them in while you can!
 

sidmouth

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Sounds like DBS has gone down the pan. I was on a UKtrain tour from Berwick 30/10/10 with a 3 hour delay at Berwick on the return caused by DBS (SPAD, wheel flat and trying to operate an electric loco in craigentinny without OHLE) then further delay due to planned engineering works. The next was to have been the Snowdonian on 21/9/12 which was cancelled (I'd also booked annual leave / hotel accommodation which luckily was able to cancel). Doesn't inspire me (nor my long suffering wife) with confidence and would prefer henceforth to avoid travel by DBS.

Surprised John Farrow has put up with DBS for so long.
 

Peter Mugridge

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What is even more terrible, is that the wording used, implies it was the delays (caused by DBS) that caused the fatality (if that is what it is). Mr Farrow needs to look at how he words things. He may not be happy with DBS, but to try and make out that they are responsible for someone passing away, when obviously that is not the case, is an extremely poor use of words.

We don't know either way... it is possible that the unfortunate passenger could have suffered unduly high stress levels as a result of the delays with unfortunate consequences? I suggest we wait until we know more from official sources on this aspect.
 

alastair

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What is even more terrible, is that the wording used, implies it was the delays (caused by DBS) that caused the fatality (if that is what it is). Mr Farrow needs to look at how he words things. He may not be happy with DBS, but to try and make out that they are responsible for someone passing away, when obviously that is not the case, is an extremely poor use of words.

Well we don't know do we,it is entirely possible that having to wait hours on a freezing platform at Bangor together with the stress of not knowing how or when the unfortunate late passenger was going to get home could have hastened his demise if he was already unwell.
 

Phil6219

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I applaud John for speaking up against DBS and how their inability to honor it's contracts with pretty much everyone. I think it is outstanding that someone has actually bothered to explain how much actually is at stake and yet how little is being done by DB.

The charter industry is indeed suffering and DB are not helping by forcing operators to cancel tours at short notice.

It does also raise an interesting question, why does the VSOE service run unaffected? Well actually we can guess the answer to that :/

If it is indeed true that DB refused to let 67021 work single loco from Holyhead because of a "delay risk" then that is shocking, for numerous reasons.
1 - 67021 hauled the tour on it's own after dumping 67025 at Nuneaton
2 - Surely a modern loco like a Class 67 has a much reduced risk of failure compared to something much older
3 - Wasn't the Class 67 designed for high speed trains, well mail trains but at high speed
4 - How can DB think it is acceptable to delay departure by such a considerable amount and because it "doesn't want to risk causing further delays" - surely that just means they don't want to end up shelling out in delay attribution costs
5 - That DB think that the above is acceptable.

While it is a good gesture that DB paid for taxis to transport people home from Euston what would have happened with those travelling much further afield (I was going to travel on a tour next weekend and would be getting the train from Manchester to Euston in the morning arriving 90 minutes before the tour and getting a train home at midnight, nearly 2 hours after the tour. Had this happened on that tour what would DB have done?)

It is time for all parties involved in railtours to stop ****ing around, DB have caused massive disruption to the charter industry and West Coast (last year) seemed to have an inability to keep tabs on it's coaching stock, not to mention their bright idea of only using WC traction when 33,37,47 or 57s are the locos wanted.

The charter companies themselves should get things sorted, they need to stop planning railtours to run on the same dates and routes of competing tours or changing dates / cancelling tours because of low bookings (I agree that a single full carriage shouldn't run but if there are say 4 out of 9 carriages full then there cancelling the tour is only going to put those passengers off booking again).

Perhaps this is the impetus needed to get the charter industry to get itself sorted and lead to a more prosperous future. Who knows, but once again kudos to John for actually speaking out and expressing his frustrations as a charterer at what is going on.

Phil 8-)
 

scotsman

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Tragically for one very long-standing customer it was all too much. He never made it home and never will.

Some context, please. Does anyone know any details of the person's death? This is a lawsuit waiting to happen
 

crewmeal

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junglejames

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It is time for all parties involved in railtours to stop ****ing around, DB have caused massive disruption to the charter industry and West Coast (last year) seemed to have an inability to keep tabs on it's coaching stock, not to mention their bright idea of only using WC traction when 33,37,47 or 57s are the locos wanted.

Lets be fair here. It is only during the manning problems that DB have been messing up. Yes it has been very poorly handled, but before the ban on rest day working, UKR apparently hadnt cancelled a tour for quite a while. Sounds to me like DB are usually quite reliable.
As for WCRC and outside traction. That was only for Spitfire tours, and it wasnt a blanket ban on all tours. I would suggest this was more down to problems with Spitfire. So to try and place blame on WCRC for this is frankly quite unfair. Did SRPS never use D9000 at all this year?


The charter companies themselves should get things sorted, they need to stop planning railtours to run on the same dates and routes of competing tours

If only life was so simple. This sort of thing isnt always possible. There are numerous factors involved when deciding on which date to run a particular railtour. It may not be possible to avoid running two competing tours on the same day. Especially when you consider most tours only run at weekends. Then take into account the limited space within the UK, and the numbers of tour operators wanting to run tours. So many factors at work, that you are bound to run competing tours on the same day.

Also, it seems as though every tour is seen as competing nowadays. I seem to recall a petty point clip wielding, gas man, supposedly trying to claim that a Shrewsbury to Stanhope tour with a pair of 20s, was partly responsible for the cancellation of his goods loop hopping, stagger to Scotland behind a ying ying. Why? Apparently because the 20s would traverse a single bit of red line. Add into this that I will travel to the other end of the country if there is a tour I want to go on, and can be just as likely found on a Railtourer, Pathfinder or UKR tour, and you could say that every tour is competing. So how do you intend to stop competing tours running on the same days? With extreme difficulty me thinks.
 

theblackwatch

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It sounds like things haven't improved this week so far, UKR have posted the following on their website at http://www.ukrailtours.com/tourshow...&tourfile=121110_THE_PENNINE_PANORAMA_No2.txt in relation to the tour coming up this weekend:

UPDATE AS AT 09.00 TUESDAY 6 NOVEMBER: Tickets have not yet been forwarded. This tour is involved in the ongoing DB Schenker driver crisis. We expect to know whether or not it is running very soon and this site will be updated as soon as we know. Please do not telephone our office as we are snowed under dealing with the consequences of DBS's apparent inability to manage its affairs.
 

table38

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Pennine Panorama confirmed as running now.

UKR Newsletter 35A

THE PENNINE PANORAMA No 2

SATURDAY 10 NOVEMBER 2012

FURTHER UPDATE AS AT 16.55 HRS ON TUESDAY 6 NOVEMBER

Earlier difficulties with DB Schenker have now been resolved and all tickets for this tour have now been sent by First Class post.

Timings have now been finalised and appear here
 

D429Renown

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I think rail tours are a dying scene. Inadequate rolling stock, insufficient traction interest, high prices with feed, high intensity railway timetables and you can only do the S&C or go to York so many times!

A shame, as I'm on the HST trip tomorrow to the KWVR, so get them in while you can!


"Rail tours a dying scene" this isn't true last year we had the most charter operations in the UK ever over a 1000.

Yes the charter scene has changed over the past few years but it hasn't declined
 

Phil6219

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Lets be fair here. It is only during the manning problems that DB have been messing up. Yes it has been very poorly handled, but before the ban on rest day working, UKR apparently hadnt cancelled a tour for quite a while. Sounds to me like DB are usually quite reliable.

Yes I agree, however despite these problems only arising recently it has caused considerable disruption to several tours from various companies and DB haven't seemed to try and do anything about resolving the issue, if they were hiring in FL drivers to do their freight work why can't they hire them in again for the charters?

That was only for Spitfire tours, and it wasnt a blanket ban on all tours. I would suggest this was more down to problems with Spitfire. So to try and place blame on WCRC for this is frankly quite unfair.

I didn't know that it was only against Spitfire, but if that was so then why was that the case? The problems that Spitfire had with the DRS 37s last year was due to various complications crewing the loco, so the destination was changed but there was no harm done.

As for my remark about WCRC not having the ability to keep track of it's coaches I understand that it was a complex situation and that I have only heard one side of the story, but as a paying passenger who was booked on both the affected tours I'd say I can be entitled to have a slightly tainted opinion - if the tour company says it's the operators fault I'd be inclined to believe them. That said West Coast are not entirely to blame and we all know that Spitfire has had more than it's fair share of problems over the last 12 months.

If only life was so simple. This sort of thing isnt always possible. There are numerous factors involved when deciding on which date to run a particular railtour. It may not be possible to avoid running two competing tours on the same day. Especially when you consider most tours only run at weekends. Then take into account the limited space within the UK, and the numbers of tour operators wanting to run tours. So many factors at work, that you are bound to run competing tours on the same day.

I don't think I made myself very clear, I understand that there will be competing tours the Mazey Day tours for example which is fine. Both tours ultimately have the same destination but are coming from different locations. I know that in the past Spitfire and Pathfinder have run tours which pass each other and usually have a booked photo stop at that time, that's all in good fun (who doesn't love shouting "get a proper loco" out of the droplight). What I think can be bad is given how in the North West we tend to have a limited number of tours pick up in our area and it seems that numerous tours all come on the same dates. When I said competing tours on the same day I meant the same dates in the same area.

The slightly nastier one is when one company outright tries to take custom from the other then change the plan after the other company cancels due to low bookings. I can't remember the specifics right now but there has been in the past times when a company sets out to run a tour on a given date, another company decides to run a similar tour on the same date then after it has got plenty of bookings changes the dates.

Also, it seems as though every tour is seen as competing nowadays. I seem to recall a petty point clip wielding, gas man, supposedly trying to claim that a Shrewsbury to Stanhope tour with a pair of 20s, was partly responsible for the cancellation of his goods loop hopping, stagger to Scotland behind a ying ying. Why? Apparently because the 20s would traverse a single bit of red line

That seems fairly similar to what I was thinking but couldn't remember details. But keeping in mind that the tour of Scotland officially started in Motherwell and that a ride on the ECS move from Crewe was available it is hardly the same, it is just cost effective to have passengers on the positioning move and try and recover some cost of the move itself.

Phil 8-)
 

junglejames

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if they were hiring in FL drivers to do their freight work why can't they hire them in again for the charters?

Are the FL drivers passed to drive class 1 trains? Im guessing not. Also, assuming you can only get a finite number of FL drivers, what do you use them on? Surely the most profitable work? Thats definitely not charters.
I know its no excuse for all the years of neglect towards their drivers, and I know it should never have got to this stage, but once it did, there are very good reasons why you saw the charters cancelled.

I didn't know that it was only against Spitfire, but if that was so then why was that the case? The problems that Spitfire had with the DRS 37s last year was due to various complications crewing the loco, so the destination was changed but there was no harm done.

I expect the final nail in the coffin was the Fort William tour. As for what the official reasons are, I dont think that has been made public. It was down to more than just crewing though because it didnt just effect DRS locos. It effected all outside traction.
I expect money paid a part in it. One thing that was obvious though. If anything ever went wrong, Jo was always very quick pointing the finger at WCRC. However it seems as though it was rarely down to WCRC, and Jo was just trying to hide the truth.

The banning of foreign traction was definitely only for Spitfire tours though. The Spitfire announcement made this quite obvious with the subtle wording, and it was made quite clear at the time that it wasnt a blanket ban for all promoters. As I said. Have SRPS used D9000 during the past year at all?




That seems fairly similar to what I was thinking but couldn't remember details. But keeping in mind that the tour of Scotland officially started in Motherwell and that a ride on the ECS move from Crewe was available it is hardly the same, it is just cost effective to have passengers on the positioning move and try and recover some cost of the move itself.

Phil 8-)

But the point im making, is nowadays it seems as though all tours are seen as competing by somebody or another. If 2 tours cover just an inch of red line each, they are then seen as competing even if they are on opposite sides of the country.

As for what you were getting at regarding competing tours. This has pretty much stopped now. All the main promoters seem to have their own areas. Pathfinder start from Severnside and Crewe. UKR start from the South East. Nenta from East Anglia. Railtourer from the rest of the East coast. SRPS from Scotland. The others, like BLS and Statesman, are a bit of a specialist market, and in reality, despite what certain gas men may say, doesnt compete with anything. The Railway touring company are about the only other ones that dont have a particular area, but again, being predominantly steam, you could sday they are specialised as well.
 
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