UK train punctuality

[Shrop]

A recent discussion between friends about train punctuality in the UK raised various points, and I offered to ask the question among people who may know more than we did. It was discussed that the Japanese manage to run their trains almost always on time, a lot more so than we do in the UK, and yet their country is more crowded than the UK in terms of population, and it has less rail-friendly terrain (ie more mountains), not to mention more natural hazards such as earthquakes etc.

One of our group offered the view that that their culture is just more dedicated to serving each other than we are in the UK, but others weren't so happy with this, not least because this would be a poor indictment of UK culture.

So why are the Japanese better at train punctuality than we are in the UK?

 

[Senex]

Because in general we've become a country of low expectations, and not just on the railways? I'm sure we're actually every bit as capable as the Japanese of working in all fields to very high standards if that is what is expected.

 

[The Planner]

One of our group offered the view that that their culture is just more dedicated to serving each other than we are in the UK, but others weren't so happy with this, not least because this would be a poor indictment of UK culture.

Doesn't mean its wrong though, I believe culture plays a massive part in the way their system runs.

 

[Shrop]

Because in general we've become a country of low expectations, and not just on the railways? I'm sure we're actually every bit as capable as the Japanese of working in all fields to very high standards if that is what is expected.

Low on expectations with compromise being the name of the game it seems. And what value is capability if it isn't used?

 

[WideRanger]

Urban commuter lines in Tokyo are frequently heavily delayed. It's just not normally that noticeable because the frequency of trains means that there's often a train coming anyway. You can normally tell when it is happening when the departure times are replaced by 'in X mins'. It happens pretty much everyday on many lines.

 

[Shrop]

Interesting, I'm sure you have more experience than I do, since I've not been to Japan. High frequency trains aren't really an issue though, for the very reason you say, ie when another will be along within a few minutes. But when trains are perhaps just twice per hour or less, then it is an issue, especially when intending to catch on onward train at another station. When trains run only half hourly or less frequently, then they're a lot more likely to be punctual from what I've read - unless I'm mistaken?

 

[WideRanger]

Interesting, I'm sure you have more experience than I do, since I've not been to Japan. High frequency trains aren't really an issue though, for the very reason you say, ie when another will be along within a few minutes. But when trains are perhaps just twice per hour or less, then it is an issue, especially when intending to catch on onward train at another station. When trains run only half hourly or less frequently, then they're a lot more likely to be punctual from what I've read - unless I'm mistaken?

Yes, they are generally more punctual than the UK outside of the intensive central parts. And some of the factors mentioned above do play a part. But, I would be careful about drawing too many conclusions. The Shinkansen is a closed system, so doesn't generally pick up routine delays (although when it does get delayed, those delays can be pretty spectacular). A lot of the other lines are 1) pretty infrequent on not very intensively used lines, and 2) with quite slow trains with very relaxed schedules. So I wonder whether the Japanese are better at expectation management?

 

[AF91]

The countries with better performance design infrastructure to aid on time running. In the uk we have so many flat junctions and bottlenecks plus we have a tendency to squeeze every last bit of capacity out of some lines which maximises the chances of delays and prevents things from recovering once delayed.

 

[SynthD]

Low on expectations with compromise being the name of the game it seems. And what value is capability if it isn't used?

There is value in slack for days when the plan falls apart.

 

[Shrop]

There is value in slack for days when the plan falls apart.

To some extent yes, but it's not a great industry when planning must include an expectation of failure.

 

[Grecian 1998]

It is worth remembering that the UK has much of the world's oldest railway infrastructure. For instance Kilsby Tunnel is 186 years old and Box Tunnel is 183. The engineers who built them wouldn't have envisaged electrification (yes I know Box Tunnel hasn't yet been electrified, but it has been prepared for the purpose) or and probably wouldn't have thought trains could do more than 60mph. Most of the UK's major routes were built at a time when railway / mechanical propulsion technology was in its infancy. The UK has the world's smallest loading gauge as a consequence. Other European countries were able to look at how the UK built its railways and learn from the inevitable errors that arise with pioneering technology. Being pioneers has its problems.

Comparing the UK to Japan isn't exactly comparing like for like. Comparing it to Deutsche Bahn (which suffers significant delays of its own, as many people found out during this years' European Championships) or SNCF (which seems to run timetables on rural lines primarily on the basis of convenience for the staff) would be fairer. On the subject of SNCF, it's worth noting that most modern high-speed lines are faster than their original line between Paris and Lyon opened in 1981, which again shows that being a pioneer isn't always the best thing.

A lot of Western European countries also got the chance to update their railways in the late 1940s due to widespread destruction of both the railways and the surrounding areas in WWII (assuming they got access to Marshall Plan money). The UK obviously suffered some damage but not anywhere near to the same extent as much of Western Europe. Consequently a lot of lines are still as built, and due to urbanisation around them, are difficult to upgrade. A flyover for the up Portsmouth line at Woking for instance would be massively useful for time-keeping and capacity, but is very difficult due to the lack of space.

 

[eldomtom2]

Comparing the UK to Japan isn't exactly comparing like for like.

What do you think the key differences are between the two countries' rail systems that impact punctuality?

 

[Shrop]

It is worth remembering that the UK has much of the world's oldest railway infrastructure. For instance Kilsby Tunnel is 186 years old and Box Tunnel is 183. The engineers who built them wouldn't have envisaged electrification (yes I know Box Tunnel hasn't yet been electrified, but it has been prepared for the purpose) or and probably wouldn't have thought trains could do more than 60mph. Most of the UK's major routes were built at a time when railway / mechanical propulsion technology was in its infancy. The UK has the world's smallest loading gauge as a consequence. Other European countries were able to look at how the UK built its railways and learn from the inevitable errors that arise with pioneering technology. Being pioneers has its problems.

Comparing the UK to Japan isn't exactly comparing like for like. Comparing it to Deutsche Bahn (which suffers significant delays of its own, as many people found out during this years' European Championships) or SNCF (which seems to run timetables on rural lines primarily on the basis of convenience for the staff) would be fairer. On the subject of SNCF, it's worth noting that most modern high-speed lines are faster than their original line between Paris and Lyon opened in 1981, which again shows that being a pioneer isn't always the best thing.

A lot of Western European countries also got the chance to update their railways in the late 1940s due to widespread destruction of both the railways and the surrounding areas in WWII (assuming they got access to Marshall Plan money). The UK obviously suffered some damage but not anywhere near to the same extent as much of Western Europe. Consequently a lot of lines are still as built, and due to urbanisation around them, are difficult to upgrade. A flyover for the up Portsmouth line at Woking for instance would be massively useful for time-keeping and capacity, but is very difficult due to the lack of space.

Yes, the UK has an old railway network, but surely that’s only a factor when talking about upgrading. Many countries have invested in brand new railways to enhance their existing networks, but the UK hasn't done that, we’ve only compromised time and again by upgrading existing routes.

By 2005 passenger rail traffic had been steadily increasing for 10 years to levels well above the pre-Beeching era. See this link showing passenger travel growth - Historical national rail passenger kilometers UK | Statista. This was a clear indication of a need to invest in a brand new railway, indeed a small new network, something which the growth ever since 2005 has continued to underline (excluding the Covid dip). It shouldn’t be necessary to cite the failings of HS2 in this context.

It is this lack of willingness to focus properly on railway development that is the problem. What we have is overcrowding, compromise after compromise, and the inevitable consequence of trains which so often have difficulty keeping to their timetables.