Unannounced selective door opening at Clapham Junction?

[jhy44]

A strange and incredibly frustrating thing happened just happened.
The 23:02 Waterloo to Poole, upon arrival at Clapham Junction (CLJ), did not open the doors in Carriages 9 and 10.

1) In my many years of commuting to and from CLJ I have never known a train ever use selective door opening (SDO) at this station, neither SWR or SR, no service ever.
Is SDO ever a policy on any service booked to stop at CLJ?!

2) On board this train as we left Waterloo, the guard announced that SDO would be in operation at Micheldever and advised passengers for that station to move to the first five carriages.
No mention was made of any SDO at CLJ. Surely if it was supposed to occur he would also have announced it alongside his announcement of it for Micheldever too?

3) As the train was pulling into Clapham Junction, and the guard manually announced that we were arriving, no mention was made of any selective door opening.
Any time there has been selective door opening on any train I've been on, the guard has announced this pre-arrival to remind passengers of this fact.
Surely if SDO was planned for CLJ he would have announced it as part of his arrival announcement?

Me and dozens of other passengers in Carriage 9 and 10 were unable to get off the train. The train was jam-packed full with people blocking the aisle so there was no chance in hell of us being able to move forward to try another carriage even if we'd have wanted to. Upon moving forward (with great difficulty) to try and find the guard to report what had happened once the train had left CLJ, I was informed by passengers in Carriage 8 that those doors had opened. I never found the guard.

The next stop was Woking. We therefore had a very long detour. What should have been an 8 minute journey from Waterloo to CLJ ended up taking 59 minutes; and that was only thanks to the fact that the incoming Exeter to Waterloo train at Working was running rather late (like everything on SWR today it seems with the whole network having been in some degree of chaos since around midday), otherwise it would have been 90 minutes plus on the slow stopper back into London.

So, what occurred?

Was it planned and normal SDO at Clapham Junction which is perhaps some sort of new policy? And the guard majorly messed up by forgetting to announce it as we left Waterloo and again as we arrived at CLJ?

Or was this a serious error, caused either by a mechanical failure in Carriages 9 and 10, or the guard majorly messing up and incorrectly using SDO at CLJ when he wasn't meant to?

Very keen to avoid this ever happening again, and now very reluctant to ever get on a train from Waterloo to CLJ that runs fast after CLJ!

 

[AlterEgo]

23:02 to Poole from London Waterloo? Afraid I can’t find one running. Was it the 20:02 by any chance? This is a ten car train.

 

[jhy44]

23:03 Waterloo to Poole yes. That was the service advertised on the departure board at Waterloo and what was announced onboard the train. It was a 10 coach train which arrived at CLJ on Platform 9. But it looks like it may have been cut short and curtailed at Eastleigh (but doesn't show stations beyond Eastleigh to Poole as 'cancelled' in the below screenshots as one would expect, which is very odd). Some very strange things going on on SWR this evening...

 

[AlterEgo]

That service stops to pick up passengers only at Clapham Junction. That’s partly why I couldn’t find it.

Realtime Trains | 1B77 2302 London Waterloo to Eastleigh | 03/12/2022

Real-time train running information for 1B77 2302 departure from London Waterloo to Eastleigh on 03/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ultimately you had no right to alight there, and CLJ isn’t an advertised stop on that train from Waterloo. Or, at least, it shouldn’t be. This may explain why not all the doors opened and why no announcement was made at Clapham. Did you get a ticket against an itinerary?

 

[abn444]

@AlterEgo has just mentioned the likely reason why SDO wasn't announced. As to your more general point about SDO at CLJ, it's a regular occurrence there on "main line" SWR services. It's the front 9 if a 12-450 and front 8 if 10-444. As to it being terminated at Eastleigh, it looks like its a replacement bus from there to Poole, Presumably because of overnight engineering work

 

[jhy44]

That service stops to pick up passengers only at Clapham Junction. That’s partly why I couldn’t find it.

Realtime Trains | 1B77 2302 London Waterloo to Eastleigh | 03/12/2022

Real-time train running information for 1B77 2302 departure from London Waterloo to Eastleigh on 03/12/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ultimately you had no right to alight there, and CLJ isn’t an advertised stop on that train from Waterloo. Or, at least, it shouldn’t be. This may explain why not all the doors opened and why no announcement was made at Clapham. Did you get a ticket against an itinerary?

I was directed onto the train by SWR station staff at Waterloo when asking for the next train to CLJ. I asked the guard in the back carriage of said train before getting on if it stopped at CLJ and he said yes. He then announced CLJ as a stop.

So clearly, the cause of this was not mechanical error but serious staff fault:

1) Waterloo SWR station staff were at fault for incorrectly informing me that this train serve CLJ for us passengers at Waterloo.

2) SWR guard was at fault for incorrectly saying ‘Yes’ to my question. He should have said ‘No’ or ‘It does but it’s pick up only so you can’t get off there I’m afraid’

If he was trying to ‘allow me to bend the rules by illegally alighting at CLJ’ then he also should have said ‘but you need to travel in the front 8 coaches’. By say ‘Yes’ and then watching us get into Carriage 10 without saying anything, it feels a bit like entrapment.

So three counts of SWR staff giving false information and resulting in numerous passengers being sent 38km away from their destination and being delayed by 51 minutes. Sadly not the first nor the last examples of SWR staff seemingly revelling in rulebreaking and making their passengers lives difficult. It’s a shame I didn’t get any of the three staff members names to report them.

@AlterEgo has just mentioned the likely reason why SDO wasn't announced. As to your more general point about SDO at CLJ, it's a regular occurrence there on "main line" SWR services. It's the front 9 if a 12-450 and front 8 if 10-444. As to it being terminated at Eastleigh, it looks like its a replacement bus from there to Poole, Presumably because of overnight engineering work

Interesting, never come across this before. Thank you for sharing his helpful information.

I’ll just ensure to never get a non-metro train out of Waterloo ever again, not worth the risk of incorrect information, at least then if the doors don’t open at CLJ the furthest out I’ll end up is Wimbledon or Putney.

 

[WizCastro197]

I was directed onto the train by SWR station staff at Waterloo when asking for the next train to CLJ. I asked the guard in the back carriage of said train before getting on if it stopped at CLJ and he said yes. He then announced CLJ as a stop.

So clearly, the cause of this was not mechanical error but serious staff fault:

1) Waterloo SWR station staff were at fault for incorrectly informing me that this train serve CLJ for us passengers at Waterloo.

2) SWR guard was at fault for incorrectly saying ‘Yes’ to my question. He should have said ‘No’ or ‘It does but it’s pick up only so you can’t get off there I’m afraid’

If he was trying to ‘allow me to bend the rules by illegally alighting at CLJ’ then he also should have said ‘but you need to travel in the front 8 coaches’. By say ‘Yes’ and then watching us get into Carriage 10 without saying anything, it feels a bit like entrapment.

So three counts of SWR staff giving false information and resulting in numerous passengers being sent 38km away from their destination and being delayed by 51 minutes. Sadly not the first nor the last examples of SWR staff seemingly revelling in rulebreaking and making their passengers lives difficult. It’s a shame I didn’t get any of the three staff members names to report them.



Interesting, never come across this before. Thank you for sharing his helpful information.

I’ll just ensure to never get a non-metro train out of Waterloo ever again, not worth the risk of incorrect information, at least then if the doors don’t open at CLJ the furthest out I’ll end up is Wimbledon or Putney.

It isn't illegal, you just aren't really permitted to alight there. Most boards at Waterloo at the fast area say trains don't call at CLJ (pickup only but some don't stop regardless) so they should be trusted. If you need to get from Waterloo to Clapham in the future, always look for Platforms 1-6 as those trains always call at Clapham and you can alight there.

23:03 Waterloo to Poole yes. That was the service advertised on the departure board at Waterloo and what was announced onboard the train. It was a 10 coach train which arrived at CLJ on Platform 9. But it looks like it may have been cut short and curtailed at Eastleigh (but doesn't show stations beyond Eastleigh to Poole as 'cancelled' in the below screenshots as one would expect, which is very odd). Some very strange things going on on SWR this evening...

What app/website is that anyway? Because, if that is recommending you take a Fast Service that is advertised as stopping at Clapham, it creates a bad situation for customer and exposes flaws within that website/app.

 

[baza585]

As the train was pick up only at Clapham, there was no need for a SDO announcement surely.

 

[WizCastro197]

As the train was pick up only at Clapham, there was no need for a SDO announcement surely.

Yes, I think that summarises everything up quite well. But what I really want to know, is why the website that OP used, asked him to board a fasts train?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Yes, I think that summarises everything up quite well. But what I really want to know, is why the website that OP used, asked him to board a fasts train?

It wasn’t a website, it was a member of staff the OP says.

So three counts of SWR staff giving false information and resulting in numerous passengers being sent 38km away from their destination and being delayed by 51 minutes.

Numerous?

 

[WizCastro197]

It wasn’t a website, it was a member of staff the OP says.



Numerous?

There were screenshots of train information in post 3 but I now understand these to not have given the information which told OP to board that train.

Probably was a staff error in the end but in my experience, I've always heard the guard say at Waterloo that anyone 'for Clapham, should return to the platforms/concourse' on services to Weymouth and indeed Poole. They've never announced CLJ as a stop. Unless in this situation, guard isn't used to running services that don't stop at Clapham (those who run fats to Woking), saw that Clapham was a scheduled stop but wasn't aware it was pickup only? But that still doesn't answer why it wasn't announced if Guard was adamant it would be a regular stop without restrictions?

 

[swr444]

This seems to happen quite a lot, as it's pick-up only. I always announce it anyway because you always end up with someone who jumps on the back and expects to be able to get off. A 10-car 444 only opens in the front 8 due to the carriages being 3 metres longer than a 455/450 etc. A 12-car 450 opens in front 10 now, not 9.

It isn't illegal, you just aren't really permitted to alight there. Most boards at Waterloo at the fast area say trains don't call at CLJ (pickup only but some don't stop regardless) so they should be trusted. If you need to get from Waterloo to Clapham in the future, always look for Platforms 1-6 as those trains always call at Clapham and you can alight there.

Plat 1-6 were shut during the weekend due to engineering work, and there weren’t many trains running between WAT-CLJ.

 

[busestrains]

SDO is commonly used on 12 coach Southern trains that use P14/P15. Sometimes (and especially in the early mornings and late evenings) mainline trains use these platforms instead of P12/P13. So as a result SDO has to be used as they can not fit 12 coaches. The 00:02 from London Victoria is one that this commonly happens on. So yes SDO happens regularly on Southern services at Clapham Junction too.