Unclaimed bag unloaded, person arrives too late

[Deafdoggie]

Well I listen to the announcements, don't own any headphones, and I think this case proves why you should listen.

So we can't relax and enjoy a train journey? We have to sit and listen to endless drivel announcements?

 

[LowLevel]

So we can't relax and enjoy a train journey? We have to sit and listen to endless drivel announcements?

You need the skill of knowing when to tune in Ultimately you're trying to get from A to B on a train journey, disruption is a possibility.

I will always help people if possible but "I wasn't listening when you told us "x" 5 times and walked through the train shouting the same twice, once in each direction" is a bit tedious.

 

[GoneSouth]

When they become identified as lost property. The OP heard 3 announcements and there were likely attempts to identify the owner in that area too.

How do you know the bag’s owner heard 3 announcements? They maybe severely hearing impaired.

Maybe the bag’s owner had gone in search of the trolley for a coffee as the trolley couldn’t get to them?

In any case this seems outrageously heavy handed to me considering cross country actively encourage you to leave your bags unattended in the former shop area.

But…

On the other hand, it was on the Reading to Birmingham route so may have been overcrowded with bags blocking the exits etc.

 

[Haywain]

How do you know the bag’s owner heard 3 announcements?

I said the OP heard them. As the OP was not the bag's owner I think we can assume that they didn't hear them, but it can't be said that there were not attempts to identify the owner.

 

[AlbertBeale]

If your bag is left alone and unlabeled in a station, after an announcement, there is a real probability that you would get it at least checked on by bomb squad.

If the check isn't satisfactory, a security perimeter will get created and the bag destroyed.

Such bagage abandonnés incidents happens daily due to the terroristic threats (plan Vigipirate). Technically it should also be put in place in a train itself as well, but I've never heard it happen.

It's by far the biggest delay reason on SNCF network, more than 9000 hours of delay all added up in 2021

I'd understood that this was indeed relating to luggage on trains (that's what I was referring to) - the notices I've seen over the years have suggested precisely this. I never leave luggage unattended on a station! But I have left luggage in the racks on a train in France without it being labelled, and have had no complaint for many many years.

 

[Krokodil]

How do you know the bag’s owner heard 3 announcements? They maybe severely hearing impaired.

Maybe the bag’s owner had gone in search of the trolley for a coffee as the trolley couldn’t get to them?

In any case this seems outrageously heavy handed to me considering cross country actively encourage you to leave your bags unattended in the former shop area.

But…

On the other hand, it was on the Reading to Birmingham route so may have been overcrowded with bags blocking the exits etc.

Given that Coach F contains the wheelchair space, it's quite possible that therein lies a clue.

 

[Falcon1200]

In any case this seems outrageously heavy handed to me considering cross country actively encourage you to leave your bags unattended in the former shop area.

Given that luggage is routinely left there, and in the carriage-end racks, in both cases with their owner not necessarily nearby, there must surely have been something different about the bag in this case which prompted the Train Manager to act as they did?

 

[Haywain]

Given that luggage is routinely left there, and in the carriage-end racks, in both cases with their owner not necessarily nearby, there must surely have been something different about the bag in this case which prompted the Train Manager to act as they did?

That it needed moving to free up the wheelchair space, perhaps?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Some XC Train Managers can be a bit heavy handed. I was on a packed voyager and the wheelchair space was full of luggage (there was nowhere else for it!) and the TM was adamant luggage couldn't be left there-even though no one in a wheelchair needed the space nor was it booked. So luggage was left in the aisle thus meaning the trolley couldn't get down and the TM was having to climb over it! It was ridiculous. Fortunately common sense prevailed after a TM swap and new one moved all the luggage from the aisle into the wheelchair space!

 

[railfan99]

Since when do bags get chucked off if you are not standing next to them? Most intercity trains are stacked with bags by the vesitubles unattended and its not usually an issue

At Exeter last year, I was on GWR's 0711 hours 5 car (802002) from Taunton to Cardiff Central.

There were only one or two others in 1st on this early morning train.

I had a first class Global Eurailpass so placed my bag next to a pile of others, not noticing they were lost property. They had some sort of band around them.

At Bristol Temple Meads (0819 to 0823), a station assistant took my suitcase off as he assumed it was lost property even though it wasn't in the pile of items being returned to off train storage. Fortunately I noticed just in time so it was placed back on.

Had I not seen my bag suddenly on the platform, I wouldn't have known how it 'disappeared'. My destination for the night was Pembroke Dock, where I had booked accommodation.

As with @Deafdoggie, the station assistant briefly said to me 'you left your luggage in the wrong position' but there wasn't an alternative, as it was a large suitcase and could not be placed in the overhead racks.

 

[WAB]

Some XC Train Managers can be a bit heavy handed. I was on a packed voyager and the wheelchair space was full of luggage (there was nowhere else for it!) and the TM was adamant luggage couldn't be left there-even though no one in a wheelchair needed the space nor was it booked. So luggage was left in the aisle thus meaning the trolley couldn't get down and the TM was having to climb over it! It was ridiculous. Fortunately common sense prevailed after a TM swap and new one moved all the luggage from the aisle into the wheelchair space!

The spaces must be left clear, though. Boarding wheelchair users is time consuming enough without the difficulty of locating the AWOL owners of luggage in the wheelchair space.

 

[Haywain]

no one in a wheelchair needed the space nor was it booked.

It is not compulsory for wheelchair users to be booked, they can also travel on a turn up and go basis.

 

[railfan99]

If one is a lone traveller, without a comrade to leave in the seats, is it now safe to go and use a toilet on a train, let alone go and join a slow-moving queue in a buffet-car?

@Senex, my solution is to carry any valuables on my person and (assuming the 'unit' (railcar) has an overhead luggage rack, place my backpack on it while I am queuing in a buffet car or using the loo.

For conductors to claim 'it's a security risk' is exaggeration and demonstrative of paranoia.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

The spaces must be left clear, though. Boarding wheelchair users is time consuming enough without the difficulty of locating the AWOL owners of luggage in the wheelchair space.

Where else do you suggest one places larger ports?

Bigger suitcases won't fit in between or at the back of seats, and nor in overhead luggage racks.

EMR is one operator that has railcars that suffer from a huge lack of identified spaces in which to place luggage. I forget which class (158?) it was but having been on one with almost all seats occupied, it is challenging to find an area for larger luggage.

 

[Haywain]

Where else do you suggest one places larger ports?

Where would you place them if there was a wheelchair user in that space?

 

[LowLevel]

Some XC Train Managers can be a bit heavy handed. I was on a packed voyager and the wheelchair space was full of luggage (there was nowhere else for it!) and the TM was adamant luggage couldn't be left there-even though no one in a wheelchair needed the space nor was it booked. So luggage was left in the aisle thus meaning the trolley couldn't get down and the TM was having to climb over it! It was ridiculous. Fortunately common sense prevailed after a TM swap and new one moved all the luggage from the aisle into the wheelchair space!

You're better off pretending the wheelchair space isn't there in terms of luggage.

1. Many years ago I was on the receiving end of photos sent into the company by a disability lobbyist because someone had chosen to put cases there, ironically after I'd already been through checking tickets.

2. If a wheelchair user turns up unexpectedly the delay to the train whilst the mess is sorted out can be significant. If there really is literally nowhere else for the luggage to go chucking it off at an intermediate station often offends, as we have potentially seen in this case.

It isn't a luggage space, you can't use it as such. Do you expect to be allowed to store luggage in the driver's cab or the galley?

We are briefed not to allow storage of luggage in the wheelchair space.

People who place things in the wheelchair space usually do so with a cry of "but there's nowhere else for it to go!"

Suddenly, when faced with their luggage being dumped on the platform when the space is needed, there *must* be somewhere else for it to go, begging the question of "why isn't it there in the first place?".

In the event of any delay being caused as a result of unblocking the wheelchair space, the train manager you refer to will also be held personally responsible for the cost for failing to work their train correctly and the delay minutes in such circumstances are attributed to them.

 

[43066]

Indeed, but passengers, including me, do that all the time without having their bags removed, which suggests there must have been more to this incident than just that; We do not I think know just how long the bag had been unattended for!

Precisely. It’s (thankfully) widely known that leaving luggage unattended is a very silly thing to do. It’s easy enough to mention to someone nearby if you’re going to the loo, and ask would they mind watching your bag. That way, if anyone asks who the bag belongs to, you can be vouched for. Common sense to most people, who manage not to have their luggage confiscated!

For conductors to claim 'it's a security risk' is exaggeration and demonstrative of paranoia.

The UK has historically suffered terrorist attacks via bombs left in luggage items. It’s not paranoia. It’s about a culture where people take responsibility for their own belongings and report items that can’t quickly be matched with an owner.

If people fail to do that, and end up being separated from their items, that’s no bad thing as it might teach them to be more careful next time! It’s also preferable to having the items stolen, which is another distinct possibility if people fail to keep close watch over their luggage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

People who place things in the wheelchair space usually do so with a cry of "but there's nowhere else for it to go!"

Suddenly, when faced with their luggage being dumped on the platform when the space is needed, there *must* be somewhere else for it to go, begging the question of "why isn't it there in the first place?".

It does seem to be a problem that’s getting worse. At some point other operators are probably going to have to follow Lumo’s example and start restricting how much baggage can be carried. Probably for another thread, though!

 

[railfan99]

It’s about a culture where people take responsibility for their own belongings and report items that can’t quickly be matched with an owner.

If people fail to do that, and end up being separated from their items, that’s no bad thing as it might teach them to be more careful next time! It’s also preferable to having the items stolen, which is another distinct possibility if people fail to keep close watch over their luggage.

Based on your logic, I could never walk to the buffet car/shop or visit the loo, because my suitcase (identified clearly with a large outside tag) couldn't be 'quickly matched'.

I appreciate terrorists may have blown up bags in the past, but thankfully, not often. Infinitesimal compared with the billions of passenger journeys made by rail over say 20 years.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The spaces must be left clear, though. Boarding wheelchair users is time consuming enough without the difficulty of locating the AWOL owners of luggage in the wheelchair space.

It is not compulsory for wheelchair users to be booked, they can also travel on a turn up and go basis.

You're better off pretending the wheelchair space isn't there in terms of luggage.

1. Many years ago I was on the receiving end of photos sent into the company by a disability lobbyist because someone had chosen to put cases there, ironically after I'd already been through checking tickets.

2. If a wheelchair user turns up unexpectedly the delay to the train whilst the mess is sorted out can be significant. If there really is literally nowhere else for the luggage to go chucking it off at an intermediate station often offends, as we have potentially seen in this case.

It isn't a luggage space, you can't use it as such. Do you expect to be allowed to store luggage in the driver's cab or the galley?

We are briefed not to allow storage of luggage in the wheelchair space.

People who place things in the wheelchair space usually do so with a cry of "but there's nowhere else for it to go!"

Suddenly, when faced with their luggage being dumped on the platform when the space is needed, there *must* be somewhere else for it to go, begging the question of "why isn't it there in the first place?".

In the event of any delay being caused as a result of unblocking the wheelchair space, the train manager you refer to will also be held personally responsible for the cost for failing to work their train correctly and the delay minutes in such circumstances are attributed to them

But the problem remains "where does it go?" No one could get out of their seats. It delayed the train at every station (so much so it was cancelled short) I feel the risk of delay from a potential wheelchair user would have been considerably less than the actual delay. No one had excessive luggage, the train was full and everyone had a case. Because the luggage was stacked in the aisle people had to stand in the wheelchair space anyway, so it still wasn't a space.

 

[renegademaster]

It’s (thankfully) widely

Is it widely known though? In my experience, most people with large luggage aren't sat camped next to it , and theirs never normally any questioning. Baggage is left unattended and unchecked on coaches and it never bothers anyone, if I take a megabus to Edinburgh , get off at Manchester and dont claim my bag it just goes to Edinburgh and gets put in lost property their.

If you put your headphones on during an intercity train ride you risk getting your luggage chucked off, they need to publicize the policy and stop showing adverts with customers with headphones on

 

[43096]

You need the skill of knowing when to tune in Ultimately you're trying to get from A to B on a train journey, disruption is a possibility.

I will always help people if possible but "I wasn't listening when you told us "x" 5 times and walked through the train shouting the same twice, once in each direction" is a bit tedious.

It would help if all guards prefixed really important announcements (e.g. changed stopping patterns, terminating short) with something like “Can I have your attention please. This is an important announcement…” to differentiate it from the usual e-piffle we get. Some do (I’d bet you are one of them…) but it really ought to be emphasised in training.

 

[LowLevel]

But the problem remains "where does it go?" No one could get out of their seats. It delayed the train at every station (so much so it was cancelled short) I feel the risk of delay from a potential wheelchair user would have been considerably less than the actual delay. No one had excessive luggage, the train was full and everyone had a case. Because the luggage was stacked in the aisle people had to stand in the wheelchair space anyway, so it still wasn't a space.

If there isn't room for it to be safely stored, the answer is it can't travel, same as people with bicycles if they can't be stored. It's to be avoided but I have gotten to the point of refusing further passengers with large items of luggage before simply because it can't be stored. Tickets can be endorsed for later services if required. The space on the train is finite.

 

[BingMan]

Since when do bags get chucked off if you are not standing next to them? Most intercity trains are stacked with bags by the vesitubles unattended and its not usually an issue

I fell asleep on a train from Aberdeen to Glasgow and my gander bag fell on the floor. The guard picked it up. asked if anyone claimed it, and then put it off at Dundee.
When I contacted Dundee they said that they couldn't send it on to Manchester in case it got lost.
I had to go back to Dundee to reclaim it,
On the bright side I got to see RRS Discovery at Discovery Point

 

[43066]

Based on your logic, I could never walk to the buffet car/shop or visit the loo, because my suitcase (identified clearly with a large outside tag) couldn't be 'quickly matched'.

Well, no, if you read the rest of my post I’ve explained how most solo travellers get around that. You take it with you or you ask someone to watch it. It isn’t rocket science and, as noted by others, most people manage not to have their items removed.

I appreciate terrorists may have blown up bags in the past, but thankfully, not often. Infinitesimal compared with the billions of passenger journeys made by rail over say 20 years.

The risk of attack is currently “substantial” in the UK, meaning an attack is likely, ao there is a need to remain vigilant. Hence the railway needs to follow the recommendation of the security services, and indeed is required to by the DfT. It is they who mandate the “see it say it sorted” announcement, for example.

If you put your headphones on during an intercity train ride you risk getting your luggage chucked off, they need to publicize the policy and stop showing adverts with customers with headphones on

Nobody has their luggage removed because they’ve put headphones on!

 

[renegademaster]

Nobody has their luggage removed because they’ve put headphones on!

The OP said the bag got chucked off after a few warnings over the PA , the likely situation being the owner didnt hear them because he had headphones on and wasn't listening to the announcements.

 

[43066]

The OP said the bag got chucked off after a few warnings over the PA , the likely situation being the owner didnt hear them because he had headphones on and wasn't listening to the announcements.

We don’t know what the scenario was, but there is certainly no policy to remove luggage because people are wearing headphones, as you previously suggested.

Ultimately, if you don’t want your luggage removed, don’t leave it unattended. It really is that simple!

If there isn't room for it to be safely stored, the answer is it can't travel, same as people with bicycles if they can't be stored. It's to be avoided but I have gotten to the point of refusing further passengers with large items of luggage before simply because it can't be stored. Tickets can be endorsed for later services if required. The space on the train is finite.

People occasionally do some strange things. On one of my trains from your local station, there was a bag left in the bike area fifteen mins before departure. It looked as though it had been left from the previous journey, and nobody claimed it when I asked in the carriage. The TM checked it and made several announcements and the person who owned it finally came forward just before we were about to leave it with the platform staff and depart for London. She had sat two carriages away from her bag despite the train being lightly loaded!

To be fair this is a very rare occurrence - most people know the score.

 

[Haywain]

the likely situation being the owner didnt hear them because he had headphones on and wasn't listening to the announcements.

If that's the case, the owner has learned a harsh lesson, because there is good reason to be able to hear announcements. It could be that announcements are about unattended luggage, about catering facilities, or they could be about the train being diverted or its calling pattern being changed. Some may be repetitive and annoying but some may be rather important.

 

[renegademaster]

If that's the case, the owner has learned a harsh lesson, because there is good reason to be able to hear announcements. It could be that announcements are about unattended luggage, about catering facilities, or they could be about the train being diverted or its calling pattern being changed. Some may be repetitive and annoying but some may be rather important.

TOCs should stop trying to promote their trains as somewhere you can kick back , put your headphones on, and relax then.

 

[Haywain]

TOCs should stop trying to promote their trains as somewhere you can kick back , put your headphones on, and relax then.

Not at all - I use headphones on plenty of my journeys but wouldn't fail to hear my own name being part of three separate announcements.

 

[renegademaster]

Ultimately, if you don’t want your luggage removed, don’t leave it unattended. It really is that simple!

If chucking off unattended luggage mid journey is the official policy this should be consistently applied and publicised, because theirs certainly a quite a large number of people who think it's fine to put their bag in the luggage rack and then sit in an available seat, which may be a long distance from the rack or facing the other way.

Lumo even makes you put your luggage in certain coaches, which may be not the one you reserved. It's not going to be practicable for the guard to run through who each bag belongs to after each station stop to sniff out which ones have been abandoned and need to be chucked off.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Perhaps the bag’s owner was in a position where they could hear but couldn’t respond? Depending on how close together the announcements were, they may have been busy in the toilet- certainly if my IBS is acting up, I can end up in there for longer than I’d like…

If there isn't room for it to be safely stored, the answer is it can't travel, same as people with bicycles if they can't be stored. It's to be avoided but I have gotten to the point of refusing further passengers with large items of luggage before simply because it can't be stored. Tickets can be endorsed for later services if required. The space on the train is finite.

At the risk of going off topic, speaking hypothetically, what’s the position then if the train is crush loaded (I’ve been on that XC more than once!) and you arrive at a station with a turn up and go wheelchair user? Do you need to remove enough passengers to be able to get them on and off the train? This seems to be what legislation would suggest, but would seem to be less easy in the real world…