Underpaid train fares + annual gold card discount without owning one

[Kulbaaa]

Hi, I recently received a letter from SWR regarding a ticket irregularity from earlier this year. They’ve asked me to complete a spreadsheet and say they have tap data and refund history.

I’ve since realised I made at least 24 journeys where I underpaid — for example, buying short-distance tickets when travelling further e.g Waterloo to Vauxhall instead of Waterloo to Hampton, or Feltham to Ashford instead of Feltham to Datchet.

Also, some tickets where I used an annual gold card discount even though I don’t own one. I used it on 8 correct journeys however obviously didn’t have the card meaning ticket wasn’t valid (I know you will think of me how stupid and pathetic but I didn’t actually know it could lead to something as serious as this).

I know I shouldn’t of done it I’m a young guy and as we all know if travelling frequently it does get quite costly and I am aware it’s selfish for me to think like that as other people on the trains pay the full fare amount, I was just young and naive not thinking of any consequences and trying to save a bit of money I had to support my parents as we was going through a tough period with the news of my Dad being diagnosed with cancer meaning he had more days off from work and I had to try and support them as best as I could. They are really disappointed in me as they are scared I could get convicted with this and get a criminal record which could really badly impact my life for the future and having that in the back of my mind makes me the most anxious and scared I’ve been in a long time.

If I could turn back time and just pay the full fare after realising how serious this could turn out I would of done it in a heart beat.

Ever since I was stopped on March 1st I said to myself I am never doing this again as I know how panicky and scared I was at that moment in time, and ever since then I have always bought the full fare ticket with no discounts whatsoever.

I want to be honest and take responsibility.

I was just wondering and had some questions below if anyone could help me with them:

– Are out-of-court settlements still likely in this situation?

– What kind of amount might be expected based on similar cases?

– Any tips for how to word the reply or how long they take to respond after submission?


I’m not trying to avoid paying, I have saved up a little bit of money on the side now and I am willing 100% to pay everything I have to try and avoid court.

I am really anxious and I’m sorry if there’s any grammar mistakes or anything like that I’m not really thinking straight at the moment as I’m panicking like hell.

Thank you everyone.

 

[Pushpit]

– Are out-of-court settlements still likely in this situation?

– What kind of amount might be expected based on similar cases?

– Any tips for how to word the reply or how long they take to respond after submission?

1) An out of court settlement is still likely in this scenario, so long as you make a genuine attempt to be completely honest with SWR. Your post comes across as truthful, so that is a good start point and I'll mention this for the third question.

2) Usually it's going to the Anytime Single fare with no discounting, and they probably won't take any account of anything you did pay on the day. There will also be an admin fee for going through all of this, let's assume £175, it may be less.

3) The process will generally take a few weeks, particularly if there are lots of trips involved, but they are working to a deadline of resolving this before 6 months from the trigger event, so I'm guess you got stopped at some point. As for tips on how to word this - first point is that your post comes across as trying to be honest and open, so if you transfer your abilities to a letter, and keep it concise, then I think that will work very well for you. The so-called @Hadders template is:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train Southeastern's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

So if you draft something up we can help with any fine-tuning or advice, but it's so much better if it clearly comes from you and not AI. They get dozens of replies daily and I bet half are from the AI machines, so SWR will see the same beautiful punctuation over and over again.

Final point - the above is general, to get very precise and accurate advice you would be best to share redacted versions of the correspondence and paperwork that came from the ticket inspector. Try not to get too anxious - you just need to deal with this efficiently from here on, but at some point you will get this resolved and you can then move on.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

You're in a spot of bother here. Fare evasion is a criminal offence and SWR are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. If you co-operate with them they will usually offer an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay for all the fares avoided at the full Anytimme rate, with no credit given for invalid tickets purchased plus an admin fee, typically £150. The settlement has to be paid in full within a few days of it being offered.

If you post a redacted copy of SWR's letter, along with your draft reply, in this thread forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[Kulbaaa]

Welcome to the forum!

You're in a spot of bother here. Fare evasion is a criminal offence and SWR are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. If you co-operate with them they will usually offer an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay for all the fares avoided at the full Anytimme rate, with no credit given for invalid tickets purchased plus an admin fee, typically £150. The settlement has to be paid in full within a few days of it being offered.

If you post a redacted copy of SWR's letter, along with your draft reply, in this thread forum members will proof read it for you.

1) An out of court settlement is still likely in this scenario, so long as you make a genuine attempt to be completely honest with SWR. Your post comes across as truthful, so that is a good start point and I'll mention this for the third question.

2) Usually it's going to the Anytime Single fare with no discounting, and they probably won't take any account of anything you did pay on the day. There will also be an admin fee for going through all of this, let's assume £175, it may be less.

3) The process will generally take a few weeks, particularly if there are lots of trips involved, but they are working to a deadline of resolving this before 6 months from the trigger event, so I'm guess you got stopped at some point. As for tips on how to word this - first point is that your post comes across as trying to be honest and open, so if you transfer your abilities to a letter, and keep it concise, then I think that will work very well for you. The so-called @Hadders template is:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train Southeastern's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

So if you draft something up we can help with any fine-tuning or advice, but it's so much better if it clearly comes from you and not AI. They get dozens of replies daily and I bet half are from the AI machines, so SWR will see the same beautiful punctuation over and over again.

Final point - the above is general, to get very precise and accurate advice you would be best to share redacted versions of the correspondence and paperwork that came from the ticket inspector. Try not to get too anxious - you just need to deal with this efficiently from here on, but at some point you will get this resolved and you can then move on.

Hi guys, I will attach a screenshot of the email I received from a SWR investigator.
I will draft a response later when I get home I am just honestly really worried you know. I know I done bad I understand that fully like I said before I was young,naive and didn’t think how serious this could escalate and since I got stopped on March 1st I have always tapped my card in and out correctly at every single station.

I’m also thinking should I mention the reason for this in the response when I said in my original post I was trying to save up a little bit of money to help out my mum and dad due to the terrible situation (dad being diagnosed with cancer) or will they think oh he’s just creating a mop story to make it sound more sympathetic.

But I am genuinely sorry for all of this and the reasonings for this are truthful I just really don’t know what to do guys. I’m 20 years old, just at the start of my career and I’m scared this could have an impact on my future and that is the last thing I want. Whatever the settlement amount is I’ll pay it somehow whether it’s wasting my full salary on it or getting a little bit of help from family and friends whatever it takes I will make sure to have the required amount I just really want an out of settlement as I’m just so so scared like I said previously about my potential future being tarnished because of these stupid mistakes.

I’m really not sure what to do guys, any help or advice will be so appreciated.

Update - I scribbled out my personals details and the investigators just to be safe.

 

[Eyersey468]

Sorry to hear about your dad's illness, I hope he makes a full recovery. To be honest I wouldn't bother mentioning it though as they get sob stories from people all the time.

 

[Kulbaaa]

Sorry to hear about your dad's illness, I hope he makes a full recovery. To be honest I wouldn't bother mentioning it though as they get sob stories from people all the time.

Hi Eyersey,

Firstly, I appreciate the reply. Thank god since being diagnosed in 2022 he’s done all of his treatment and so far let’s hope for as long as possible no reoccurrence I remember when he had his first surgery to take out some lymph nodes I was with him by his side as he doesn’t speak English very well (we are Polish and I’ve lived in the UK since 2012) and it was one of the only times I’ve seen him cry when he called my mum and said to her he loves her still remember it like it was yesterday but anyway it has nothing to do with the post so I’m sorry for going on and on.

I spoke with a friend at work and like you said maybe don’t add all of that bit with your dad because they probably get it all the time. But I’m just thinking maybe using the Hadders template just be honest and say about the situation? Or maybe just briefly say we as a family was in a lot of financial stress at the time and I was trying to help out mum and dad with anything I could.

I don’t know, what I do know is I am terrified of it going any further to court. If they are happy with an out of court it’d be like a lottery win for me even though I will have to pay a hefty fine but at least I’ll have the healthy conscious of knowing I won’t get a criminal record against my name and it won’t impact my future. That’s the best case scenario but I’m quite a pessimistic person so I prepare for the worst so that’s why I’m thinking really negatively of this.

I just hope and pray that they do let me have an out of court settlement.

 

[Eyersey468]

Hi Eyersey,

Firstly, I appreciate the reply. Thank god since being diagnosed in 2022 he’s done all of his treatment and so far let’s hope for as long as possible no reoccurrence I remember when he had his first surgery to take out some lymph nodes I was with him by his side as he doesn’t speak English very well (we are Polish and I’ve lived in the UK since 2012) and it was one of the only times I’ve seen him cry when he called my mum and said to her he loves her still remember it like it was yesterday but anyway it has nothing to do with the post so I’m sorry for going on and on.

I spoke with a friend at work and like you said maybe don’t add all of that bit with your dad because they probably get it all the time. But I’m just thinking maybe using the Hadders template just be honest and say about the situation? Or maybe just briefly say we as a family was in a lot of financial stress at the time and I was trying to help out mum and dad with anything I could.

I don’t know, what I do know is I am terrified of it going any further to court. If they are happy with an out of court it’d be like a lottery win for me even though I will have to pay a hefty fine but at least I’ll have the healthy conscious of knowing I won’t get a criminal record against my name and it won’t impact my future. That’s the best case scenario but I’m quite a pessimistic person so I prepare for the worst so that’s why I’m thinking really negatively of this.

I just hope and pray that they do let me have an out of court settlement.

I'm glad to hear your dad is on the mend,I can imagine it will have been very stressful for you all. I'm sure they will offer you an out of court settlement but obviously can't guarantee it.

 

[Kulbaaa]

I'm glad to hear your dad is on the mend,I can imagine it will have been very stressful for you all. I'm sure they will offer you an out of court settlement but obviously can't guarantee it.

Thank you, hopefully some other members will reply and give me any sort of help or advice.

Once again thanks mate.

 

[Pushpit]

Or maybe just briefly say we as a family was in a lot of financial stress at the time and I was trying to help out mum and dad with anything I could.

I don’t know, what I do know is I am terrified of it going any further to court. If they are happy with an out of court it’d be like a lottery win for me even though I will have to pay a hefty fine but at least I’ll have the healthy conscious of knowing I won’t get a criminal record against my name and it won’t impact my future. That’s the best case scenario but I’m quite a pessimistic person so I prepare for the worst so that’s why I’m thinking really negatively of this.

I have quite a lot of Polish patients (my area has had Poles since 1945) and pessimism seems to be a common trait. I have a small Czarna Madonna icon on my whiteboard, though I'm not a Catholic, just to project some sense of hope. But yes if you stay on top of this, the evidence is that SWR will settle with you. You also have a named individual and email address, presumably due to the number of trips, which should also help you. So don't worry, try to get good quality replies to SWR reasonably quickly and then focus on other things until you get a reply. In fact when it comes to SWR I'm not sure how you would get prosecuted, apart perhaps from ignoring their correspondence or telling a pack of lies.

I'm sorry to read about your father, and yes I can see how it has stressed you and is right on the front of your mind. But now see this from the viewpoint of SWR - they know you did this to save money, but that aspect is the least interesting aspect for them. They want their fares from you, as quickly as possible, and they want a commitment that you will never do this again. So "family was in a lot of financial stress" is all you need to say, but actually even that doesn't need saying, they will know people were just trying to save money at the expense of other travellers.

Don't worry, in a few weeks it will all be a lot clearer.

 

[tomtomtom]

might be worth editing that first screenshot as it has your name clearly visible

 

[Kulbaaa]

I have quite a lot of Polish patients (my area has had Poles since 1945) and pessimism seems to be a common trait. I have a small Czarna Madonna icon on my whiteboard, though I'm not a Catholic, just to project some sense of hope. But yes if you stay on top of this, the evidence is that SWR will settle with you. You also have a named individual and email address, presumably due to the number of trips, which should also help you. So don't worry, try to get good quality replies to SWR reasonably quickly and then focus on other things until you get a reply. In fact when it comes to SWR I'm not sure how you would get prosecuted, apart perhaps from ignoring their correspondence or telling a pack of lies.

I'm sorry to read about your father, and yes I can see how it has stressed you and is right on the front of your mind. But now see this from the viewpoint of SWR - they know you did this to save money, but that aspect is the least interesting aspect for them. They want their fares from you, as quickly as possible, and they want a commitment that you will never do this again. So "family was in a lot of financial stress" is all you need to say, but actually even that doesn't need saying, they will know people were just trying to save money at the expense of other travellers.

Don't worry, in a few weeks it will all be a lot clearer.

Hi pushpit,

I really appreciate your response, surprisingly my mum and dad are the opposite they try to be as positive as possible but yes us Poles tend to be quite pessimistic about everything unfortunately.

Your reply has put my mind at ease a little bit, I will draft a response soon and send it on here would you mind giving me some feedback on the response anything you think I can add or remove etc, like I said before many times any help is appreciated and I’m happily surprised with the helpful advice I’m getting from you all as I thought everyone might be negative towards me and say it’s your own fault deal with it sort of thing.

As soon as I have the draft responses I will post it on here.

Thanks a lot guys, if I do get lucky and it’s an out of court settlement I owe you all a beer

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 10:26 ==

might be worth editing that first screenshot as it has your name clearly visible

Hi Tom,

Very good point I missed it out due to all this stress do you know how I can edit it or delete it at all I can’t seem to do it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 10:31 ==

Hi guys, I will attach a screenshot of the email I received from a SWR investigator.
I will draft a response later when I get home I am just honestly really worried you know. I know I done bad I understand that fully like I said before I was young,naive and didn’t think how serious this could escalate and since I got stopped on March 1st I have always tapped my card in and out correctly at every single station.

I’m also thinking should I mention the reason for this in the response when I said in my original post I was trying to save up a little bit of money to help out my mum and dad due to the terrible situation (dad being diagnosed with cancer) or will they think oh he’s just creating a mop story to make it sound more sympathetic.

But I am genuinely sorry for all of this and the reasonings for this are truthful I just really don’t know what to do guys. I’m 20 years old, just at the start of my career and I’m scared this could have an impact on my future and that is the last thing I want. Whatever the settlement amount is I’ll pay it somehow whether it’s wasting my full salary on it or getting a little bit of help from family and friends whatever it takes I will make sure to have the required amount I just really want an out of settlement as I’m just so so scared like I said previously about my potential future being tarnished because of these stupid mistakes.

I’m really not sure what to do guys, any help or advice will be so appreciated.

Hi @Hadders any chance I can get this deleted so I can resend it with the screenshot hiding my name?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 10:59 ==

Hi pushpit,

I really appreciate your response, surprisingly my mum and dad are the opposite they try to be as positive as possible but yes us Poles tend to be quite pessimistic about everything unfortunately.

Your reply has put my mind at ease a little bit, I will draft a response soon and send it on here would you mind giving me some feedback on the response anything you think I can add or remove etc, like I said before many times any help is appreciated and I’m happily surprised with the helpful advice I’m getting from you all as I thought everyone might be negative towards me and say it’s your own fault deal with it sort of thing.

As soon as I have the draft responses I will post it on here.

Thanks a lot guys, if I do get lucky and it’s an out of court settlement I owe you all a beer

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 10:26 ==


Hi Tom,

Very good point I missed it out due to all this stress do you know how I can edit it or delete it at all I can’t seem to do it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 10:31 ==


Hi @Hadders any chance I can get this deleted so I can resend it with the screenshot hiding my name?

I have attached the photos again.

If any other members would like to give out their opinion on this case, please do so. As always, any advice or help is kindly appreciated.

Thanks all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 13:11 ==

Hi all,

I have drafted a response and in the spreadsheet that was sent to me there was a journey not highlighted even though i purchased it with the gold card which I don’t own. So I have highlighted it myself and included it in the spreadsheet.

Here’s what I’ve got:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I’ve completed the attached spreadsheet with full honesty and gone through all the journeys, including one that wasn’t highlighted (Slough to Reading with a gold card discount). I added that in myself as I just want to be upfront about everything and not leave anything out.

I’d like to start off by saying how sorry I am for what’s happened. I know what I did was wrong. Buying the short tickets and using a discount I didn’t qualify for and I take full responsibility for this. At the time, things were really difficult at home. My dad had been diagnosed with cancer and was regularly off work for treatment, and I just wanted to help my parents with bills wherever I could. However, that is not an excuse, and it doesn’t make it right.

Looking back now, I’m honestly ashamed of myself. I know it was selfish and short-sighted. My parents are extremely disappointed in me and angry about this, and I’ve learned the hard way that these things have serious consequences.


Since the day I was stopped on March 1st, I’ve not travelled without a full valid ticket. It gave me such a wake-up call. I now fully understand how serious this is, and it’s made me realise how badly something like this could impact my future.


I’m honestly terrified of getting a criminal record. I didn’t understand before how far this could go, but now I do — and I just want to put things right.



If there’s any chance of getting an out of court settlement, I’d be forever grateful. I’m more than willing to pay the outstanding fares, admin charges, and any additional costs needed to right this wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and once again, I really apologise for all of this and I hope we could reach an agreement.

Best regards,

 

[Hadders]

The letter is generally ok but I suggest a few changes:

Swap the first and second paragraphs round, it reads better that way.

Delete the sentence about being terrified. After saying you want to put things right add 'I wondered if it would be possible to settle this matter out of court. I am willing to pay the outstanding fares and your administrative costs in dealing with the matter'. You can then delete the paragrah start 'If there's any chance of getting...'

Sign off Yours faithfully rather than Best regards.

 

[Kulbaaa]

You think I should also change last bit or keep it?

“Thanks for taking the time to read this, and once again, I really apologise for all of this and I hope we could reach an agreement.”

 

[Hadders]

You think I should also change last bit or keep it?

“Thanks for taking the time to read this, and once again, I really apologise for all of this and I hope we could reach an agreement.”

I think you can delete it. Wait and see if anyone else has any suggestions.

 

[Kulbaaa]

I think you can delete it. Wait and see if anyone else has any suggestions.

This sounds a bit better no? What do you think Hadders with your expertise?

I know I’ve let myself and others down through all of this, and I’m really hoping for the chance to sort it out properly. I appreciate you taking the time to go through everything. Once again, I apologise for my actions.



Yours faithfully,

 

[Pushpit]

I would also agree with shorter rather than longer. If you test this yourself, do you really think someone who sees a lot of these letters every day is going to be interested in this? They will be interested in an honest confession, tick for that, and that you won't do it again, again tick. Everything else isn't going to be important, more over excessive word-smith work probably isn't time useful. It may feel you have done you best here in the effort you have used, so that's on the other side, and it's definitely not AI, it's your words, not this forums. They do read up here (which in your case will perhaps work to your slight advantage).

So I would cut "I'm honestly terrified" and "Thanks for taking the time" paragraphs. then Yours faithfully.

It's a good letter.

 

[Kulbaaa]

Hi all,

I have sent the email back to them tweaked a few changes before sending it I did actually read the email again, in the screenshot below the highlighted section.
To my understanding it sounds like they’d rather resolve this matter instead of taking legal action which has put my mind at ease a little bit.

I do appreciate all your support, help, advice and the nice comments.

Thank you to you all and I will keep you posted once I hear back.