Unhelpful WMT Journey Check info.

[trainophile]

Currently showing on West Midlands journey check in the drill down information (Live Travel Updates; Birmingham New Street Lines; Hereford via Worcester; Birmingham New Street):

We will accept Cross Country tickets on 1K86 between Birmingham New Street and Crewe

Trains, tickets & service information | Home

Buy cheap train tickets and find the best deals on rail fares in the West Midlands.

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Apart from the convoluted way of finding out this information (by accident in my case) it isn't much help to people who have no idea what 1K86 means!

 

[Horizon22]

Currently showing on West Midlands journey check in the drill down information (Live Travel Updates; Birmingham New Street Lines; Hereford via Worcester; Birmingham New Street):

Trains, tickets & service information | Home

Buy cheap train tickets and find the best deals on rail fares in the West Midlands.

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Apart from the convoluted way of finding out this information (by accident in my case) it isn't much help to people who have no idea what 1K86 means!

Probably more likely to be internal railway messaging so guards/other control teams know this.

 

[Watershed]

Probably more likely to be internal railway messaging so guards/other control teams know this.

Why is it published on the homepage of their website then?

Jargon like this has no place in customer facing communications, at least not without being explained.

 

[Horizon22]

Why is it published on the homepage of their website then?

Jargon like this has no place in customer facing communications, at least not without being explained.

It isn't on the homepage for a start - you have to click about 4 things to get there.

I imagine it's operator error, and its been attributed to the wrong template. Or the operator should have said the "XX:XX to Crewe" instead, and had forgotten about what it would look like on public facing information.

 

[Watershed]

It isn't on the homepage for a start - you have to click about 4 things to get there.

I imagine it's operator error, and its been attributed to the wrong template. Or the operator should have said the "XX:XX to Crewe" instead, and had forgotten about what it would look like on public facing information.

It's not the first time I have seen this on WMT's version of JourneyCheck. If I'm not mistaken it is from the homepage - you go on "Problems reported" and then select the relevant route and service.

 

[alex17595]

Is it an old message? I know 1k86 is normally the last Birningham to Crewe to but it doesn't seem to run on a Saturday or Sunday.

 

[rg177]

It shows as 'last updated 06/12, 17:19' - so yes, it's been sat like that for over four days, it seems.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Perish the thought that anyone on RailUK Forums would ever refer to a train ‘head code/reporting number’ without specifying exactly which service it represents.

I’ll get my coat…

 

[moogal]

The travel updates on their site seem to have been a lot worse the past few weeks. There was a point where about 6 days of updates were listed all at the same time, making it impossible to tell which day each item referred to. Now it's the other way around - last night my sister was stranded at mine as what seemed like the entire late evening southbound WCML service was cancelled, but the website had no information at all.

 

[ARIC]

It's a great example of why I really dislike the British system of solely "times from the persons point of reference" being how a train is identified -

1K86 is the 23:22 to Crewe, or the 23:43 to Crewe, or the 23:59 to Crewe...
or if you're picking someone up, the 00:23 arrival from Birmingham New Street, or the 23:42 arrival from Birmingham New Street.....etc, etc.

It all depends on where you are and why you want to know. That train, from a customer point of view, can be referred to in 10 different ways!

 

[Deafdoggie]

It's a great example of why I really dislike the British system of solely "times from the persons point of reference" being how a train is identified -

1K86 is the 23:22 to Crewe, or the 23:43 to Crewe, or the 23:59 to Crewe...
or if you're picking someone up, the 00:23 arrival from Birmingham New Street, or the 23:42 arrival from Birmingham New Street.....etc, etc.

It all depends on where you are and why you want to know. That train, from a customer point of view, can be referred to in 10 different ways!

But from a customer point of view, what does 1K86 tell me? Absolutely nothing at all.
I've then got to find out the time it runs on the day I want. Or, they could just tell me this when I ask & then I have no need to know it's 1K86.
Telling passengers it is 1K86 adds nothing for the passenger, and potentially confusion. If, say, the headcode was 1O23 or 2I47 passengers might confuse that as a time.
To a passenger a headcode adds nothing positive at all.

 

[fandroid]

To make train numbering work they'd need a total revamp of passenger information. In certain foreign parts this is done by publishing the train numbers on the printed timetables visible at every station. Even then they confuse matters by giving the overall service a number, eg RE7, as well numbering individual trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To make train numbering work they'd need a total revamp of passenger information. In certain foreign parts this is done by publishing the train numbers on the printed timetables visible at every station. Even then they confuse matters by giving the overall service a number, eg RE7, as well numbering individual trains.

Isn't it typically that a train might be on route RE7 but then individually numbered RE7123, say, so there is the consistency? That's how Virgin Trains flirted with train numbers, anyway.

The UK has train numbers anyway - Retail Service IDs - we just for some reason I never understood decline to make them public, other than on Voyager external displays.

 

[newtownmgr]

The app has not been fit for purpose for ages.

 

[allotments]

There is scrolling text on

West Midlands Trains JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay ...

https://www.journeycheck.com/londonnorthwesternrailway/

which might not display easily on all browsers

“This service is no longer being used. Please visit wmr.uk/updates (West Midlands Railway) or lnr.uk/updates (London Northwestern Railway)”

 

[josh-j]

Lol, what a mess. Journeycheck is already stupidly implemented - a combined service pointless split between operators without even a central homepage to visit covering them all (try going to www.journeycheck.com - what a friendly welcome).

Of course there's National Rail Enquiries, which should be the central point of call, but then updates go on Journeycheck and not all disruptions go on NRE and... It should all just be one service!

I'm fairly sure I've noticed issues before with TPE's own website having different journey information to journeycheck, with no obvious way of knowing which one was right.

 

[moogal]

There is scrolling text on

West Midlands Trains JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay ...

https://www.journeycheck.com/londonnorthwesternrailway/

which might not display easily on all browsers

“This service is no longer being used. Please visit wmr.uk/updates (West Midlands Railway) or lnr.uk/updates (London Northwestern Railway)”

And even better, the LNR link there 404s!

 

[WAB]

Probably more likely to be internal railway messaging so guards/other control teams know this.

Yes, I imagine the information controller used the wrong field when inputting the information; I've seen it occasionally on LNER such as including headcodes, 'cape', 'vice', 'class 800', 'SSO' etc.

See also the following examples from today:

 

[trainophile]

Yes, I imagine the information controller used the wrong field when inputting the information; I've seen it occasionally on LNER such as including headcodes, 'cape', 'vice', 'class 800', 'SSO' etc.

See also the following examples from today:

View attachment 148255

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That’s diabolical. It’s like a foreign language to most non-railway people.

Talking of false information, NRE cost us £46 by advising over the last several days that all toilets are out of order at Worcester Foregate Street. We were originally travelling from Hereford to Bournemouth this morning, with a 48 minute connection at WOF, but decided to book a night in the Travelodge instead! Got to WOF this morning, toilets open as they should be. Even now NRE still showing toilets out of order .

(We had a very pleasant afternoon, evening and morning in Worcester though, so no real harm done.)

 

[Taunton]

That’s diabolical. It’s like a foreign language to most non-railway people.

It's a longstanding issue that diversions between Peterborough and Doncaster lead to public notices at stations saying trains are being diverted "via the Joint Line".

100 years I think since that ceased to be so.

 

[The exile]

Isn't it typically that a train might be on route RE7 but then individually numbered RE7123, say, so there is the consistency?

As far as the German system goes, that would be a happy coincidence, nothing more. Don’t think many locals have problems distinguishing a route number from a train number but the concept is well-established there, and is of course much easier to work out if you are a native speaker.

 

[trainJam]

Useful travel info .

Please "self dispatch" from Nuneaton seems to be quite a common occurence - although this time written slightly differently.

LNR Travel update from 17/12/23:

 

[trainophile]

Useful travel info .

Please "self dispatch" from Nuneaton seems to be quite a common occurence - although this time written slightly differently.

LNR Travel update from 17/12/23:

View attachment 148821

Was that on Journey Check? I think they have rather missed the point of what it's for!

 

[Ridercross]

Tonight's current rubbish on the West Midlands Railway website include helpful advice to Whitlocks End passengers of an ACF (whatever that is! 4 days ago!

 

[Inthewest]

Why is it published on the homepage of their website then?

Jargon like this has no place in customer facing communications, at least not without being explained.

Operator error.
Putting the info for the Internal staff in the Public box.

 

[james_the_xv]

Operator error.
Putting the info for the Internal staff in the Public box.

I think WMT have had bad staffing issues on the social side the past month, I'd wager it's someone who's daytime job isn't the social side just copying and pasting the given info in all the boxes.

 

[trainophile]

As posted elsewhere, that would partly explain why they had incorrect information displayed at New Street on Thursday, indicating that my Hereford train was terminating at Worcs Shrub Hill, thus causing me to wait an hour for a through one, only to find out later that it did in fact continue to Hereford. I wonder if the same team are responsible for station information, social media and Journey Check. In times of disruption it's not surprising things get omitted or wrongly reported.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Lol, what a mess. Journeycheck is already stupidly implemented - a combined service pointless split between operators without even a central homepage to visit covering them all (try going to www.journeycheck.com - what a friendly welcome).

Of course there's National Rail Enquiries, which should be the central point of call, but then updates go on Journeycheck and not all disruptions go on NRE and... It should all just be one service!

I'm fairly sure I've noticed issues before with TPE's own website having different journey information to journeycheck, with no obvious way of knowing which one was right.

WMT don't use JourneyCheck, they use a different system, they ended their contract for provision of JourneyCheck and went with a different system.

JourneyCheck is an excellent resource that lays out all disruption to every train that is effected and changes to services when used properly, however unfortunately over recent years the need to keep face and to have good PR for certain train companies has meant that some have steered away from using it.

The PR focused people in suits don't want you to know what is happening on every single train service in one easy to use page that lists all the delays, cancellations, short forms, missing catering facilities and broken ticket machines in a single place with tables with numbers where you can add the numbers together and see how bad they are doing for yourself, instead they prefer a solution that hides it.

For example I can go to Northern and see immediately there are 359 trains cancelled, and 55 trains with other updates, go to GWR and see 16 updates, 29 train formation changes, 3 cancellations and 2 stations with ticket machines out of order and see each one of them in a listed and transparent way.

Those who are not using Journeycheck make it far harder to find information on individual services and see how widespread their problems are. Sadly image comes before transparency.

 

[trainophile]

WMT don't use JourneyCheck, they use a different system, they ended their contract with Nexus Alpha (producers of JourneyCheck) and went with a different system.

JourneyCheck is an excellent resource that lays out all disruption to every train that is effected and changes to services when used properly, however unfortunately over recent years the need to keep face and to have good PR for certain train companies has meant that some have steered away from using it.

The PR focused people in suits don't want you to know what is happening on every single train service in one easy to use page that lists all the delays, cancellations, short forms, missing catering facilities and broken ticket machines in a single place with tables with numbers where you can add the numbers together and see how bad they are doing for yourself, instead they prefer a solution that hides it.

For example I can go to Northern and see immediately there are 359 trains cancelled, and 55 trains with other updates, go to GWR and see 16 updates, 29 train formation changes, 3 cancellations and 2 stations with ticket machines out of order and see each one of them in a listed and transparent way.

Those who are not using Journeycheck make it far harder to find information on individual services and see how widespread their problems are. Sadly image comes before transparency.

That is very interesting. It also seems Journey Check can be used selectively, as some time ago TfW abandoned using the Train Formation section, I can't possibly imagine why lol.

 

[F Great Eastern]

That is very interesting. It also seems Journey Check can be used selectively, as some time ago TfW abandoned using the Train Formation section, I can't possibly imagine why lol.

Before WMT and LNWR got rid of Journey Check they also dumbed it down and it didn't contain any categories at all and only for the next few hours. I think Greater Anglia is the only Transport UK (formerly Abellio) TOC to ever have JourneyCheck for any proper time since Abellio took over a franchise and that was supposed to bite the bullet years ago as well apparently.

Unfortunately whereas before communications and marketing were seen as different departments, often they are now seen as one and the same and that's not just in the rail industry. Websites are more and more considered as exclusively marketing tools rather than communications ones.

We are in the days where it's seen by many as more important to give the impression that you are not running a terrible service than whether you are and at the end of the day, if you're short forming huge amounts of trains, the more obvious that is, the more business that is likely to cost you so it's now seen as better to avoid the headline figures that JourneyCheck uses and try and hide that information away a little better.

JourneyCheck has always been designed as a comprehensive and transparent customer information tool, the problem is for some TOCs it is too transparent to their faults. It's basically a public front end for Tyrrell/Arrakis which is also made by Nexus Alpha and many rail staff will be familiar with here.