Unknown Railway Artifacts

[Steveoh]

Is anyone able to tell me what the attached were used for? They are from an old freight only branch line which closed in the 1960's.

 

[Ploughman]

Chairs mounted on them to support the rails possibly in an engine shed.
Or where there was an inspection pit between the rails.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Where in the country is this please?

 

[Llanigraham]

Chairs mounted on them to support the rails possibly in an engine shed.
Or where there was an inspection pit between the rails.

The studs are much too far apart for mounting chairs on, and if they were for rails of some kind, why isn't there a second set "4ft" from them?

 

[Steveoh]

It’s the Great Central Gotham branch, parts of it are now a footpath.

 

[Llanigraham]

It’s the Great Central Gotham branch, parts of it are now a footpath.

Can you provide a map reference?

 

[swt_passenger]

Could they have been supports for rollers carrying either signal wires or point rodding?

 

[eastdyke]

There were a number of gypsum mines around Gotham. There was a connection to the main line but also narrow gauge feeders.
You can check some of the historical locations by going to:
Sabre Maps:
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/
Select OS One Inch in the left side navigation and then the radio button for 1:25,000 in the revealed dropdown.
Zoom in from there.

 

[WatcherZero]

Narrow gauge Baulk Road (chairless) track?

I.E. Something like this but pairs of concrete rather than stones.

 

[Steveoh]

Can you provide a map reference?

Hopefully I’ve done this correctly SK 53253 29920. As far as I know it was a standard gauge railway. They are a quite close to this level crossing http://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/Lpages/html/L1288.html and somewhere in the vicinity of these works http://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/Lpages/html/L1290.html.

 

[John Webb]

Could they have been supports for rollers carrying either signal wires or point rodding?

Far too closely spaced for that function. Point rod supports are/were between 6-10ft apart depending on straightness of run, signal wires 15-20 ft on straight runs. And I've only seen them attached to posts buried in the ground or for signal wires wood or metal stakes driven into the ground.

 

[Llanigraham]

OS maps and the aerial vew certainly seem to show it on the route of an old railway, and "Railmaps on line" show it is part of the Gotham branch of the GCR that led to the Weldon Gypsum Mine, but it also shows another un-named line that crossed the Branch at roughly that point.
http://www.RailMapOnline.com/UKIEMap.php?lat=52.86459&lng=-1.20681&zoom=15

If they were stone sleepers where is the other parallel set?
How far apart are the studs in them?
How big are they?

Always a tip if photographing something to be identified is to put a ruler or something that is a fairly well known size by them, so that some idea of scale can be seen.

 

[Ploughman]

Has one side been removed?
Was it a Monorail?

Anything is possible.

 

[Steveoh]

OS maps and the aerial vew certainly seem to show it on the route of an old railway, and "Railmaps on line" show it is part of the Gotham branch of the GCR that led to the Weldon Gypsum Mine, but it also shows another un-named line that crossed the Branch at roughly that point.
http://www.RailMapOnline.com/UKIEMap.php?lat=52.86459&lng=-1.20681&zoom=15

If they were stone sleepers where is the other parallel set?
How far apart are the studs in them?
How big are they?

Always a tip if photographing something to be identified is to put a ruler or something that is a fairly well known size by them, so that some idea of scale can be seen.

I’ll go and have another look tomorrow. On your link they’re by the C in Nottingham City Transport. They are quite large I’d say well over a foot. If I remember I’ll take my tape measure.

I’m not aware of a local monorail but you never know.

 

[edwin_m]

If this link works it should lead to a large scale historic map alongside a current map.

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...=52.8665&lon=-1.2100&layers=168&right=BingHyb

I can't see anything at the reference you quote, but there are other features that might be quarry railways intersecting with the standard gauge railway both further north and further south.

Perhaps the foundations for some kind of conveyor? For this the fixings on each block would be (I guess) about half a metre apart.

 

[InOban]

Isn't there a library of Aerofilms which might show stuff not on maps?

 

[Llanigraham]

If this link works it should lead to a large scale historic map alongside a current map.

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...=52.8665&lon=-1.2100&layers=168&right=BingHyb

I can't see anything at the reference you quote, but there are other features that might be quarry railways intersecting with the standard gauge railway both further north and further south.

Perhaps the foundations for some kind of conveyor? For this the fixings on each block would be (I guess) about half a metre apart.

If you use the above link but change the map date to "OS Six Inch, 1888 - 1913" it shows the Gotham Branch. The modern Gypsum Way follows much of the route.

 

[Steveoh]

If this link works it should lead to a large scale historic map alongside a current map.

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...=52.8665&lon=-1.2100&layers=168&right=BingHyb

I can't see anything at the reference you quote, but there are other features that might be quarry railways intersecting with the standard gauge railway both further north and further south.

Perhaps the foundations for some kind of conveyor? For this the fixings on each block would be (I guess) about half a metre apart.

What a fascinating map thanks for sharing that. This one is a later OS version and perhaps shows the area as it was prior to the closure of the branch. I’m not too sure on the what the map symbols mean but there is a feature moving off to the west at the approximate location. http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...t=52.8600&lon=-1.2083&layers=10&right=BingHyb

 

[Steveoh]

If you use the above link but change the map date to "OS Six Inch, 1888 - 1913" it shows the Gotham Branch. The modern Gypsum Way follows much of the route.

That’s right it’s parallel to it, it doesn’t really go over the track bed very much. Gypsum Way was built when the DSG plant was put into Ratcliffe power station. In the end most of the gypsum went by rail to East Leake Gypsum works (by Rushcliffe Halt). Parts of the trackbed is now a footpath called the Logan trail. The part where these artefacts are has recently been cleared and opened accessed off Gypsum Way or Pygall Avenue.

 

[John Webb]

Isn't there a library of Aerofilms which might show stuff not on maps?

Are you thinking of "Britain from Above"? My delving brought up https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/search?keywords=Gotham&country=global&year=all which showed some 10 photos, 8 of which were of Rushcliffe golf course and did not show anything of the branch line in question. (Warning: Internet Explorer users may not be able to view the large images for some obscure technical reason!)
One problem of these aerial shots is that they were usually done for specific customers, so coverage is patchy.

 

[InOban]

That's what I was thinking of. Thanks for taking the time to search through it.

 

[edwin_m]

That’s right it’s parallel to it, it doesn’t really go over the track bed very much. Gypsum Way was built when the DSG plant was put into Ratcliffe power station. In the end most of the gypsum went by rail to East Leake Gypsum works (by Rushcliffe Halt). Parts of the trackbed is now a footpath called the Logan trail. The part where these artefacts are has recently been cleared and opened accessed off Gypsum Way or Pygall Avenue.

Panning my "OS 25 inch 1892-1914" northwards the standard gauge track ends near the area you mention but the trackbed continues to a "Plaster Mill". I suppose it's remotely possible the gypsum was unloaded here and taken by conveyor to the mill (or conveyors could have brought it from the mine further south or to a railhead from the mines further north). The existence of the trackbed suggests the track went all the way to the mill at one stage but confusingly it also continues on the 1937-61 mapping so it's possible it was taken out for a period and put back later.

Does the line of blocks run parallel to the trackbed or in some other direction?

 

[Steveoh]

Been out and about again today and had a bit more of a thorough poke about in the undergrowth. Have a look at these pictures and see what you think. There are two parallel lines about 6 feet apart. I think some are in situ and some have been moved. I'm pretty sure it was always a standard guage single track branch line, all the way around to the Weldon mine. The block on its own is by the entrance to the track off Pygall Avenue - that appears to have moved. They are about 22 inches long.

 

[Jensen]

They are twin block sleepers connected together to maintain gauge by a steel bar cast within each. Current concrete sleepers being a single mono block supporting both rails. I suspect if you excavated down between the blocks you would find the bar. Bull head rail chairs would be bolted onto each block using the cast in studs. I believe they were quite common after WW2 when resources were scarce. There would be little scrap value in the concrete block but the chairs would be, hence why none remain.

 

[tomatwark]

Like these ?
http://www.railway-technical.com/_Media/twin-block-exposed-fs_med_h_med_hr.jpeg

 

[edwin_m]

They are twin block sleepers connected together to maintain gauge by a steel bar cast within each. Current concrete sleepers being a single mono block supporting both rails. I suspect if you excavated down between the blocks you would find the bar. Bull head rail chairs would be bolted onto each block using the cast in studs. I believe they were quite common after WW2 when resources were scarce. There would be little scrap value in the concrete block but the chairs would be, hence why none remain.

I don't think there would have been chairs bolted to these, because when salvaged the square nuts would have been taken away with the scrap chairs or just dropped around rather than being re-threaded onto the studding. I've seen concrete sleepers with bullhead chairs dating from around WW2, but always single pieces rather than twin-block.

I'm wondering if this is some sort of lighter twin-block for industrial use with flat-bottom rail. Looks to me as if the bars linking each pair were actually bolted to the top of the blocks, with one photo showing one still attached but bent over. The same bolts could have held down some sort of rail clip. This would have had to be a plate with a slot slid under the bolts rather than bolted through a hole, otherwise they would still be there surrounding the surviving bolts. Was there anything like that lying around? The third photo seems to show some sort of collar surrounding one of the fixings.

For a standard gauge railway I'd guess about 1200mm between the nearer fixings on the two blocks opposite one another.

The placing of two then a gap is curious too, as there's no obvious reason to place railway sleepers at anything other than a constant spacing. I wonder if someone was trying to save a bit of money and every third one was a timber that has been salvaged or rotted away?

 

[snowball]

I seem to remember a lot of twin-block sleepers were used on the Metrolink "big bang" extensions. There must be a lot of pictures of them on the Metrolink Extension thread on Skyscrapercity, but it's 2000 pages to look through!

 

[Ploughman]

Don't forget these twin blocks will be a bit older than those on the metrolink.
I think a guesstimate date period would be WW2 as the Railway operating dept of the Army used these style of sleepers extensively.

Is there any known Military History near this site, in particular storage depots?

 

[Steveoh]

There was actually a concrete slab factory nearby. This link http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...t=52.8600&lon=-1.2083&layers=10&right=BingHyb I posted up thread shows the location. I believe it was used for something or other during the war.

 

[edwin_m]

Don't forget these twin blocks will be a bit older than those on the metrolink.
I think a guesstimate date period would be WW2 as the Railway operating dept of the Army used these style of sleepers extensively.

Is there any known Military History near this site, in particular storage depots?

There was the big army depot just up the line in Ruddington (now the country park and the base for the GCR(N) heritage operation) but I'm not aware of anything at this site. If there was then it wouldn't have been on any of the OS maps we have been looking at! It may have been a wartime expansion perhaps - was gypsum a strategically important material?