Unpaid fare notice from TransPennine for honest mistake which only caused inconvenience for me

[blueskyman]

Hello all, I'm really quite bemused about an unpaid fare notice I've received regarding a train I boarded mistakenly and which caused significant disruption to my journey. I'm intending to appeal, but I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice before I do so.

A couple of Saturdays ago, I was due to take a 7:45am train from Leeds to Manchester Victoria. It was a TransPennine service and was due to depart from platform 16. I was on time, but got a little flustered by people rushing around me and started hurrying along with them. Unfortunately the rushing crowd I joined was boarding the 7:43 TransPennine service to Newcastle on platform 15.

I realised my error before the train departed but didn't manage to get off before the doors closed. The next stop was York, where I disembarked the train and was able to board a Manchester-bound service an hour later than the train I had intended to take. It left York at 8:25ish arriving at Leeds at 8:45am (on platform 16!). My ticket was an off-peak day return and so it was valid for the 8:45 from Leeds to Manchester.

However, a ticket inspector reached me as the train was approaching Leeds. I explained what had happened to her and showed her my ticket from Leeds to Manchester. She told me that technically she had to charge me for a ticket from York to Leeds, however she also offered me an option of providing my details and having the opportunity to explain the situation in writing. I was somewhat frustrated because I knew the ticket inspector had the discretion not to charge me for a ticket, especially given I had clearly made an honest mistake which had only served to inconvenience me. So I opted for the second option.

A few days ago I received a fairly serious sounding letter with words to the effect of: please make your case before we consider prosecution. So I wrote out a version of the above with my ticket details and sent it off. (Unfortunately, I didn't scan this, so can't include a copy.)

I've now just received a letter (attached) which implies they're willing to do me a favour "prior to the issue of a Court Summons", and charge me only £36.80 which represents the cost of the ticket and "a contribution of £ towards our costs to date".

I'm astonished at the zeal with which TransPennine are pursuing this. I obviously gained no advantage from my error. And I'm also very frustrated at how I feel I was misled by the ticket inspector. An Anytime Day Single from York to Leeds would have been £18.60. If I'd understood the second option she was offering me, I probably wouldn't have gone with it. They're charging me an additional £18.20 for the letter, I guess?

Moreover, I'm now angry about the principle of what's happening here, and don't wish to pay TransPennine another penny. I feel the situation is the result of an obvious honest mistake, and there's a trail of evidence to support it:

• I beeped in through the barriers at Leeds train station at about 7:35ish, which is presumably on record somewhere
• I didn't leave York train station and went straight to the platform for the train going in the opposite direction from where I had arrived
• The ticket inspector activated their bodycam, which apparently they have to do. I was polite, and there will presumably be evidence that the situation wasn't properly explained to me
• I ultimately boarded a return service later in the day, beeping in through the barriers at Manchester and beeping out at Leeds

I didn't think rail operators pursued things like this to the extent they are. However, I suppose I'm keen to hear if anyone feels I don't have grounds to appeal this. A mitigating factor I haven't yet raised with TransPennine is that I also have ADHD, which goes some way to explaining how I managed to board the wrong train. I don't like using this, hence why I haven't yet brought it up with them. I don't want to be excused simply on this basis because the whole situation feels preposterous, but I'm considering including this in my appeal.

Thanks in advance for any advice folks can give.

 

[Gloster]

Your image appears to only be visible by downloading: it is best if it can be viewed without downloading. (Or it may just be my usual technical incompetence.)

 

[ikcdab]

Welcome to the forum. Although this was a mistake, that holds little water in law. It is your responsibility to get on the right train.
However, you have been very lucky. Normally the train company would add on £100 or so admin fee which they have waived in this case.
You should now pay this without delay before they change their minds. If you don't pay, then the next you will hear will be a court summons.
You have got off very lightly. Pay the money and be more careful next time

 

[John R]

I'd pay it and move on. As I was reading down the story I was expecting the hit to be an admin fee of £100 to £150, so they are actually being reasonably fair.

Ultimately it was your mistake. Had you approached someone on the initial train you caught, or at York, you might have been able to resolve the situation there and then and had your ticket endorsed for the additional journey.

 

[blueskyman]

Your image appears to only be visible by downloading: it is best if it can be viewed without downloading. (Or it may just be my usual technical incompetence.)

Sorry yes, it's a PDF. Here's a JPG. I'll add this above too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Generally it's best if you board the wrong train to proactively find staff rather than waiting for them to find you. I'm not sure where exactly that sum comes from but an Anytime Short Return is about £30 and you did after all go there and back, albeit not intentionally.

This is incredibly passenger unfriendly (today's railway for you) but you're probably best off paying.

 

[StarCrossing]

£36.80 is the price of an Anytime Day Single from York to Manchester. Despite the wording in the letter, I don't believe they're charging any admin fees here.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello all, I'm really quite bemused about an unpaid fare notice I've received regarding a train I boarded mistakenly and which caused significant disruption to my journey. I'm intending to appeal, but I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice before I do so.

A couple of Saturdays ago, I was due to take a 7:45am train from Leeds to Manchester Victoria. It was a TransPennine service and was due to depart from platform 16. I was on time, but got a little flustered by people rushing around me and started hurrying along with them. Unfortunately the rushing crowd I joined was boarding the 7:43 TransPennine service to Newcastle on platform 15.

I realised my error before the train departed but didn't manage to get off before the doors closed. The next stop was York, where I disembarked the train and was able to board a Manchester-bound service an hour later than the train I had intended to take. It left York at 8:25ish arriving at Leeds at 8:45am (on platform 16!). My ticket was an off-peak day return and so it was valid for the 8:45 from Leeds to Manchester.

However, a ticket inspector reached me as the train was approaching Leeds. I explained what had happened to her and showed her my ticket from Leeds to Manchester. She told me that technically she had to charge me for a ticket from York to Leeds, however she also offered me an option of providing my details and having the opportunity to explain the situation in writing. I was somewhat frustrated because I knew the ticket inspector had the discretion not to charge me for a ticket, especially given I had clearly made an honest mistake which had only served to inconvenience me. So I opted for the second option.

A few days ago I received a fairly serious sounding letter with words to the effect of: please make your case before we consider prosecution. So I wrote out a version of the above with my ticket details and sent it off. (Unfortunately, I didn't scan this, so can't include a copy.)

I've now just received a letter (attached) which implies they're willing to do me a favour "prior to the issue of a Court Summons", and charge me only £36.80 which represents the cost of the ticket and "a contribution of £ towards our costs to date".

I'm astonished at the zeal with which TransPennine are pursuing this. I obviously gained no advantage from my error. And I'm also very frustrated at how I feel I was misled by the ticket inspector. An Anytime Day Single from York to Leeds would have been £18.60. If I'd understood the second option she was offering me, I probably wouldn't have gone with it. They're charging me an additional £18.20 for the letter, I guess?

Moreover, I'm now angry about the principle of what's happening here, and don't wish to pay TransPennine another penny. I feel the situation is the result of an obvious honest mistake, and there's a trail of evidence to support it:

• I beeped in through the barriers at Leeds train station at about 7:35ish, which is presumably on record somewhere
• I didn't leave York train station and went straight to the platform for the train going in the opposite direction from where I had arrived
• The ticket inspector activated their bodycam, which apparently they have to do. I was polite, and there will presumably be evidence that the situation wasn't properly explained to me
• I ultimately boarded a return service later in the day, beeping in through the barriers at Manchester and beeping out at Leeds

I didn't think rail operators pursued things like this to the extent they are. However, I suppose I'm keen to hear if anyone feels I don't have grounds to appeal this. A mitigating factor I haven't yet raised with TransPennine is that I also have ADHD, which goes some way to explaining how I managed to board the wrong train. I don't like using this, hence why I haven't yet brought it up with them. I don't want to be excused simply on this basis because the whole situation feels preposterous, but I'm considering including this in my appeal.

Thanks in advance for any advice folks can give.

Charging you for going somewhere you never wanted to go (do I have this right)? is pretty harsh by any standard.

But I do not believe there is any right of appeal for you to attempt with this. It's pay this or argue about it in front of the magistrate in court where the railway company will have a trained expert (I assume) and you won't have one to defend you unless you pay a lot more than the sum they are asking for - and you still might lose.

As an aside - make sure you claim Delay Repay on any late journeys where you can make a claim, as a way of getting the railway to pay you funds when they go wrong, as they expect you to do.

 

[kacper]

First time i’ve seen TPE settle like this while looking at the forum

 

[Deafdoggie]

I know it's of little help now, but should this situation, arise again, it's best to proactively approach staff. Particularly the train crew. They are normally willing to help (although there's always one grumpy bugger) if you've approached them and appear genuine.

 

[fandroid]

I concur. The offer is way towards the low end of what TPE usually makes. Pay up and make a formal complaint afterwards. There seems to be a trend here in that onboard inspectors do not spell out the implications of their reporting the issue to their office. That is in comparison to selling the lowest price ticket to regularise the journey.

We only see the ones where the passenger has been "misled" by omission. It's possible that there are plenty of occasions where more balanced advice is given. However, the rail company should ensure that consistent and customer friendly behaviour happens every time.

 

[janb]

£36.80 is the price of an Anytime Day Single from York to Manchester. Despite the wording in the letter, I don't believe they're charging any admin fees here.

£36.80 is also 2xCDS between Leeds and York.

First time i’ve seen TPE settle like this while looking at the forum

I have seen these low TPE settlements before.

 

[158801]

It's a difficult situation. People do make mistakes but people also try to "pull a fast one".

Strictly speaking you need to have a ticket for the journey you are making. If you caught the wrong train, or fell asleep and missed your stop for example, then, in many respects, it's only right that you pay for the journey you are making.

However, people do make mistakes and you could have been "let off".

What concerns me is that you not only caught the wrong train - one going on entirely the wrong direction to a completely different destination but you were on the wrong platform too.

Were you given an "Unpaid Fares Notice" or a "Travel / Ticket Irregularity Report" ? An Unpaid Fares Notice just needs paying for the fare due with no extra penalties.

 

[AlterEgo]

The OP's liable for the return fare to Leeds and TransPennine have charged it. It's a harsh outcome on the face of it, for a simple mistake, but if you just sit there and wait to be discovered without a ticket then you will often not get the benefit of the doubt.

There is no formal right of appeal against this - the OP has been charged no penalty, only for the journey they have made. It's one to chalk up to experience I'm afraid. In the future, if you do cock up like this, realise at once that you are ticketless, and you should see the guard immediately and explain.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The OP's liable for the return fare to Leeds and TransPennine have charged it.

They actually haven't. They've charged more than it by charging two singles instead of the relevant return. The applicable full fare as would be charged on board by a guard, the Anytime Day Return, route Any Permitted, is £21.00.

This may well be an administrative error, but you can in practice never get these changed, unfortunately.

In the future, if you do cock up like this, realise at once that you are ticketless, and you should see the guard immediately and explain.

Definitely.

 

[AlterEgo]

They actually haven't. They've charged more than it by charging two singles instead of the relevant return.

That is correct though as they were ticketless on both occasions and would have been sold singles both times. The OP "got away" with the first one north to Leeds and declined purchasing a ticket for the return journey - which would have been an Anytime Single.

From NRCoT:

9.2 If you are unable to present a valid Ticket when asked and the conditions set out in Condition 6 do not apply, we are permitted in law to take one of the following measures:

9.2.1 To charge you the full undiscounted “anytime” single fare to a station directly served by the train that you are on. You will not be entitled to any discounts or special terms, or to a Ticket to a station other than one served by the train that you are on;

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is correct though as they were ticketless on both occasions and would have been sold singles both times. The OP "got away" with the first one north to Leeds and declined purchasing a ticket for the return journey - which would have been an Anytime Single.

From NRCoT:

In that case it's also wrong as they've been sold two Off Peak Day Singles!

It's just really, really sloppy on the part of the TOC.

The advice, nonetheless, remains to pay it because there is no better option - unfortunately the law allows TOCs to extort what they wish with the threat of prosecution hanging over the unfortunate passenger. However my view remains and will remain that this approach absolutely stinks.

 

[AlterEgo]

The advice, nonetheless, remains to pay it because there is no better option - unfortunately the law allows TOCs to extort what they wish with the threat of prosecution hanging over the unfortunate passenger. However my view remains and will remain that this approach absolutely stinks.

I think we will agree that the TOC should not be able to threaten prosecution, but there is little doubt that they are legally entitled to a/the fare for the journey made which they could recoup using civil means.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think we will agree that the TOC should not be able to threaten prosecution, but there is little doubt that they are legally entitled to a/the fare for the journey made which they could recoup using civil means.

Or a Byelaw prosecution for that matter (RoRA would be unlikely to stick as the travel was not intentional).

So yes, the OP must pay.

 

[jfollows]

Pay up, then save money to buy a car if you don't already have one, and use it instead of the train in future.
Not worth contesting, I suggest, and very much the sort of thing discretion has been shown for and probably should have been shown here, but ultimately it'd be a losing battle, I agree.

 

[thejuggler]

How times change. Many years ago I saw a Man Vic service at Leeds and jumped on at last minute as I was going to New Pudsey. It was only as we left it was announced the first stop would be Morley! I wasn't aware of the new service to Man Vic via Huddersfield.

Guard came round and I explained what had happened and was happy to buy a ticket. He just let me off at Morley and I took the next service back to Leeds.

 

[Darandio]

Pay up, then save money to buy a car if you don't already have one, and use it instead of the train in future.
Not worth contesting, I suggest, and very much the sort of thing discretion has been shown for and probably should have been shown here, but ultimately it'd be a losing battle, I agree.

Approach a member of staff at the earliest opportunity and it';s likely discretion would have been given.

How times change. Many years ago I saw a Man Vic service at Leeds and jumped on at last minute as I was going to New Pudsey. It was only as we left it was announced the first stop would be Morley! I wasn't aware of the new service to Man Vic via Huddersfield.

Guard came round and I explained what had happened and was happy to buy a ticket. He just let me off at Morley and I took the next service back to Leeds.

In this case the OP didn't bother attempting to approach or explain to anyone.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Approach a member of staff at the earliest opportunity and it';s likely discretion would have been given.

Agree in principle that proactively seeking the guard would be the sensible thing to do, but I wonder if any discretion would extend to issuing a 0 fare excess or similar for the Leeds to York return?

As far as war stories go, I once fell asleep on the last train from York to Leeds and ended up in Manchester airport. After an uncomfortable night on an airport bench I got the first train back. My explanation was accepted on the train and at the Leeds exit booths, probably made more believable by my dishevelled state!

 

[Haywain]

I wonder if any discretion would extend to issuing a 0 fare excess or similar for the Leeds to York return?

I doubt anything would be issued but discretion would almost certainly be shown. I have benefited from such discretion on several occasions over the years, and have equally done what I can to exercise discretion to people in such circumstances.