Unsatisfactory response from Avanti having been stranded overnight

[Bletchleyite]

Sadly not everyone has the means to be able to do this. It's a sad reflection on the railways that you have to do this. That they treat their customers with such distain that they are expected to have their own contingencies in place says all you need to know about the railway attitude to its passengers. There are very many people who haven't got a car & haven't any surplus income and can't get a credit card. The railway shouldn't treat them with contempt.

All it takes is a £20 note hidden in the back of a wallet/phone case for an emergency taxi. It is not at all common that the railway strands people outside of stuff like pre-advised strike action - I can only recall it happening to me once, ever. Most people would be able to save £20 for this end over a period of time even if they couldn't resource it immediately.

It's not OK that the railway is doing this, but we all know journeys can go wrong, and so having no contingency is simply unwise. Just as if you can't afford travel insurance you can't afford to go abroad at all.

 

[Haywain]

Sadly not everyone has the means to be able to do this. It's a sad reflection on the railways that you have to do this. That they treat their customers with such distain that they are expected to have their own contingencies in place says all you need to know about the railway attitude to its passengers. There are very many people who haven't got a car & haven't any surplus income and can't get a credit card. The railway shouldn't treat them with contempt.

It's not just about the railways, it's about life in general. It's always best to be able to deal with the unexpected.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sadly not everyone has the means to be able to do this. It's a sad reflection on the railways that you have to do this. That they treat their customers with such distain that they are expected to have their own contingencies in place says all you need to know about the railway attitude to its passengers. There are very many people who haven't got a car & haven't any surplus income and can't get a credit card. The railway shouldn't treat them with contempt.

Point taken, but elsewhere the OP is trying to get a £300+ rover ticket refunded, so I don't think it's bad advice to the OP at all.

£20 in the back of the wallet or the same on a card to pay for taxi or Uber will get you out of this sort of situation very easily, and you can much more easily claim it back than do the round-the-houses thing the OP is having to do at the moment.

It's really bad advice to suggest not having any form of contingency plan at all, leaving you to sit on the steps outside Lime Street overnight.

 

[miklcct]

£20 in the back of the wallet or the same on a card to pay for taxi or Uber will get you out of this sort of situation very easily, and you can much more easily claim it back than do the round-the-houses thing the OP is having to do at the moment.

Taxis in the country are expensive. £20 won't get you anywhere near 12 miles.

The only time I used a taxi in this country was when I was heading for an appointment but a bus didn't show up. A 3-mile journey which took 5 minutes cost me £11 on the meter.

 

[Trainguy34]

A couple of months ago, I did about 11 miles in £30-40 after being on the last train from London (about 1.30 am). That's very cheap for my area at the moment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Taxis in the country are expensive. £20 won't get you anywhere near 12 miles.

The only time I used a taxi in this country was when I was heading for an appointment but a bus didn't show up. A 3-mile journey which took 5 minutes cost me £11 on the meter.

I assume that was a black cab? Minicabs are a lot cheaper.

 

[scrapy]

£20 is only any good if you are stranded a £20 taxi from home. Even on Uber Formby is more than £20 from Lime St. What if the OP was stranded in Crewe? Should they have had £100 in their wallet for emergencies?

 

[John R]

Sadly not everyone has the means to be able to do this. There are very many people who haven't got a car & haven't any surplus income and can't get a credit card. The railway shouldn't treat them with contempt.

As noted by others, as the OP is elsewhere trying to get a refund on a £380 rover ticket paid for by card then I highly doubt that is the case here. And that does colour my judgement as to the predicament they found themselves in, when everyone else managed to sort themselves out.

Chargeback on ticket purchase due to rail strikes

Is there anyone on the forum who is knowledgeable as to the dispute and chargeback process? I've returned a dispute form to Barclaycard following the purchase of a ticket I was unable to use due to rail strikes and would appreciate some more details as to what happens next. I appreciate I might...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[MrJeeves]

As noted by others, as the OP is elsewhere trying to get a refund on a £380 rover ticket paid for by card then I highly doubt that is the case here. And that does colour my judgement as to the predicament they found themselves in, when everyone else managed to sort themselves out.

Chargeback on ticket purchase due to rail strikes

Is there anyone on the forum who is knowledgeable as to the dispute and chargeback process? I've returned a dispute form to Barclaycard following the purchase of a ticket I was unable to use due to rail strikes and would appreciate some more details as to what happens next. I appreciate I might...

www.railforums.co.uk

I mean... I would be able to fund myself in a hotel overnight or some other transport, but if it came to it I would probably also not bother because I wouldn't be totally certain the UK rail industry would treat me well and compensate me for this.

Just because someone can take care of themselves and then claim the money back later, that doesn't mean that they should have to in the first place.

I mean I spent 6 hours sat on the floor of Gatwick's North Terminal last Saturday because I didn't trust that GTR would compensate me for replacement transport on a strike day as per EU PRO legislation. I could have paid for a taxi in the middle of the night, but I thought the path of least resistance for me in the end was a late evening bus and waiting at the airport overnight instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just because someone can take care of themselves and then claim the money back later, that doesn't mean that they should have to in the first place.

I don't think anyone here thinks Avanti were behaving reasonably, but fundamentally sitting awake all night on the streets of a large city just because you didn't want to spend your own money on a taxi then seek to reclaim it from the TOC is really a foolish act that could end up costing far more than the taxi if you're mugged at knifepoint, a not entirely unlikely outcome.

And I recognise that some people won't be able to afford the taxi at all, but if the OP can afford an All Line Rover then they can afford a taxi to Formby from Lime St, even if that means not buying the Rover. But as I said given a choice between sitting on the steps of Lime St all night and spending all night walking home, I'd do the latter without question, at least I'd not be getting cold.

 

[John R]

I don't think anyone here thinks Avanti were behaving reasonably, but fundamentally sitting awake all night on the streets of a large city just because you didn't want to spend your own money on a taxi then seek to reclaim it from the TOC is really a foolish act that could end up costing far more than the taxi if you're mugged at knifepoint, a not entirely unlikely outcome.

And I recognise that some people won't be able to afford the taxi at all, but if the OP can afford an All Line Rover then they can afford a taxi to Formby from Lime St, even if that means not buying the Rover. But as I said given a choice between sitting on the steps of Lime St all night and spending all night walking home, I'd do the latter without question, at least I'd not be getting cold.

Exactly. And for the record, I think Avanti (or at least their staff on the ground) were being totally unreasonable.

We were due to fly into Gatwick recently on what turned out to be a rail strike day. Then with a week's notice BA pushed our flight time back by 6 hours to arrive at 2030. Given the strike there was no way we would be able to get back to the Bristol area, so I immediately booked the Premier Inn at Gatwick North for £100. I've put the claim in to BA, and it should be accepted as they gave less than 14 days notice of the change, but ultimately comfort and safety comes first every time.

 

[Kite159]

All it takes is a £20 note hidden in the back of a wallet/phone case for an emergency taxi. It is not at all common that the railway strands people outside of stuff like pre-advised strike action - I can only recall it happening to me once, ever. Most people would be able to save £20 for this end over a period of time even if they couldn't resource it immediately.

It's not OK that the railway is doing this, but we all know journeys can go wrong, and so having no contingency is simply unwise. Just as if you can't afford travel insurance you can't afford to go abroad at all.

£20 won't get you very far in a taxi. Even if you can find one who will be willing to take on the job of going out of the town/city centre.

 

[Starmill]

All it takes is a £20 note hidden in the back of a wallet/phone case for an emergency taxi. It is not at all common that the railway strands people outside of stuff like pre-advised strike action - I can only recall it happening to me once, ever. Most people would be able to save £20 for this end over a period of time even if they couldn't resource it immediately.

It's not OK that the railway is doing this, but we all know journeys can go wrong, and so having no contingency is simply unwise. Just as if you can't afford travel insurance you can't afford to go abroad at all.

I obviously sympathise hugely with those who can't get any kind of credit card at all, not even one of the more basic ones which come with the lowest limits and are often targeted towards those with "poorer" credit files. But most people who have a UK address they can use and a suitable form of ID would qualify for some kind of credit card, which is then free to keep as a last resort for this kind of spending. Most such basic cards would charge no fees or interest for about a month.

 

[gray1404]

Really disappointed with some of you here casting judgement on my personal financial situation. There was a massive gap of many months between the purchase of the rover and the situation I found myself in with Avanti. And there is also no evidence everyone else sorted themselves out.

However for those of you who have helped me with drafting the reply to Avanti, which is what the post was about, I am very grateful indeed. I shall get something together and get it sent off.

 

[Starmill]

Really disappointed with some of you here casting judgement on my personal financial situation.

I'm not 100% sure that's what anyone I've seen is doing? You've asked for advice about how to get some compensation, first and foremost. If you want compensation by far the easiest way to get it in this scenario is to do as advised and use a taxi.

You could still get it in your current scenario by valuing your time and billing Avanti West Coast for the number of lost hours, then when they don't want to pay that bill you sue them in County Court. Which of these two ideas sounds more useful as advice?

 

[Bletchleyite]

£20 won't get you very far in a taxi.

It'll get you further on Merseyside than in London. But don't get hung up on the precise sum - the thing that's prudent is having an alternative way home. For those with partners it might involve phoning them for a lift. Some have a mate that would do it - provided I was sober I'd drive down to London to "rescue" my best mate rather than leave him on the streets overnight, though I'd probably want him to cough up for a McD's on the way back. But some don't have anyone to call on, and those people need another backup such as the funds for a taxi unless they want to risk ending up in a potentially quite dangerous (and certainly unpleasant) situation.

You can choose not to, but then you have to accept that sometimes that means you will have to sit awake, cold and potentially scared on a bench all night.

Even if you can find one who will be willing to take on the job of going out of the town/city centre.

Basically all jobs late at night in Liverpool city centre will be going out of the city centre. It's not Landan and sarf ov da Rivva. If anything they'd probably be glad of a job that didn't involve a drunkard.

 

[Starmill]

It'll get you further on Merseyside than in London. But don't get hung up on the precise sum - the thing that's prudent is having an alternative way home. For those with partners it might involve phoning them for a lift. Some have a mate that would do it - provided I was sober I'd drive down to London to "rescue" my best mate rather than leave him on the streets overnight, though I'd probably want him to cough up for a McD's on the way back. But some don't have anyone to call on, and those people need another backup such as the funds for a taxi unless they want to risk ending up in a potentially quite dangerous (and certainly unpleasant) situation.

You can choose not to, but then you have to accept that sometimes that means you will have to sit awake, cold and potentially scared on a bench all night.



Basically all jobs late at night in Liverpool city centre will be going out of the city centre. It's not Landan and sarf ov da Rivva. If anything they'd probably be glad of a job that didn't involve a drunkard.

Indeed Formby will be one of the most common destinations from the city centre as it's a wealthier area with more people who can afford a £25 taxi fare. At night the driver would comfortably do the round trip in under an hour.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @gray1404 to provide an update.

Could I ask that people stay on topic where possible though.

Thanks

 

[gray1404]

Avanti replied.to me asking for proof of onward travel to Formby (plus any taxi or hotel receipts). They admitted I should not have been left stranded and staff should have assisted.

I replied attaching tickets covering my entire journey again and they have replied saying they will now send me a cheque for £20 as a goodwill gesture. I am shocked it is such a low amount given the circumstances.

Do we think this is a satisfactory outcome and is there any merit in asking for a deadlock letter to goto the Ombudsman?

 

[Titfield]

I think the obvious response would be to go back to Avanti and:

1) thank them for a) their apology b) recognising the discomfort and the failings of their staff c) the offer of £20 in recognition of the discomfort,

2) reject the offer saying that in your opinion it does not reflect the discomfort and anxiety being stranded overnight.

3) suggest that an amount of £xx (£50?) would be more appropriate given the circumstances

Await their reply.


Edit PS I did suggest in an earlier post of mine that you did ask for £120 to give them a starting point. By not setting out your expectation (of an appropriate amount) you did rather open the door to this quite frankly derisory offer.

 

[skyhigh]

they have replied saying they will now send me a cheque for £20 as a goodwill gesture. I am shocked it is such a low amount given the circumstances.

You were asking upthread how much you thought you should ask for. You're saying you are shocked at an offer of £20.

What amount would you find acceptable?

 

[Dai Corner]

£20 appears to be roughly the taxi fare from central Liverpool to Formby. No doubt if you'd been able to submit a taxi receipt they'd have paid that in full.

Their offer seems reasonable to me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

£20 appears to be roughly the taxi fare from central Liverpool to Formby. No doubt if you'd been able to submit a taxi receipt they'd have paid that in full.

Their offer seems reasonable to me.

They're probably incredulous that anyone would sit the night on the street rather than taking a taxi.

 

[Starmill]

They're probably incredulous that anyone would sit the night on the street rather than taking a taxi.

Indeed. We've no reason to disbelieve @gray1404's account and I personally cast no judgement on them as to that. However, the sad reality is, if the case handler at Avanti West Coast thinks they're not being told the truth, they simply won't put much effort into resolving the case to the satisfaction of the customer. The case handler has done the absolute bare minimum - @gray1404 what were you expecting?

 

[John R]

Offering compensation roughly equivalent to the taxi fare appears reasonable, as that is the amount they would have incurred had you taken that option, which they would have regarded as a reasonable and proportionate action to take in your circumstance.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Does Avanti necessarily disbelieve the OP's account? They have accepted that the OP was stranded overnight. They have further accepted that they ought to have arranged onward transport to Formby for the OP and that their staff failed to do so. They have apologised for leaving the OP in that situation. But they have not accepted any financial liability and have simply offered a goodwill gesture in the form of a £20 cheque.

Avanti has probably assessed that with no evidence of any financial loss, or of harm to them incurred by having to wait overnight, the OP is not in a strong position to make a claim against them for anything more than the cost of a taking a taxi home to avoid the wait for a train.

 

[AlterEgo]

Does Avanti necessarily disbelieve the OP's account? They have accepted that the OP was stranded overnight. They have further accepted that they ought to have arranged onward transport to Formby for the OP and that their staff failed to do so. They have apologised for leaving the OP in that situation. But they have not accepted any financial liability and have simply offered a goodwill gesture in the form of a £20 cheque.

Avanti has probably assessed that with no evidence of any financial loss, or of harm to them incurred by having to wait overnight, the OP is not in a strong position to make a claim against them for anything more than the cost of a taking a taxi home to avoid the wait for a train.

Probably the correct reading.

One of the more disheartening aspects of posting here is the repeated ignorance of good advice by some posters. In this case the advice was not to leave it to Avanti's discretion and instead state a resolution the OP would find acceptable, and we cannot be surprised that having failed to do so, Avanti have offered the minimum possible in response.

 

[skyhigh]

Probably the correct reading.

One of the more disheartening aspects of posting here is the repeated ignorance of good advice by some posters. In this case the advice was not to leave it to Avanti's discretion and instead state a resolution the OP would find acceptable, and we cannot be surprised that having failed to do so, Avanti have offered the minimum possible in response.

I would agree with this too. If a reasonable amount had been requested it would probably have been agreed.

But now the OP is in the position of having to go back to them for a 3rd(?) time after some fairly prolonged gaps for an event that occurred almost 6 months ago.

Personally I think it might be best to park it there now. You've got your fare refunded and a few quid thrown in for good measure. From another thread it sounds like you also got to keep the discount code you were initially given. You could threaten them with the Ombudsman or the media but it would be a lot of effort for not much return depending how much you were hoping for. I appreciate opinions may vary on this point however.

 

[gray1404]

Thanks for your replies.

I am actually in two minds what to do now if I should leave it or bother going back and going the Ombudsman. As has been said it's a lot of effort.

Thanks for your help here.

 

[Bluejays]

Doesn't look like a particularly bad outcome to me. Without wanting to go over what others have said, the 8 hour delay wasn't inevitable. So I don't see to much of an issue with 20. Nothing wrong with writing back and asking for more though. Although as others have mentioned, may have been a better idea to ask for a sum in earlier correspondence