Unusual sources and uses of water

[Rescars]

Gadget1987's investigations into the well under the floorboards discussed elsewhere made me wonder about unusual sources of water which the railways may have employed for loco and other uses, especially in the absence of mains supplies or direct extraction from rivers. There were no doubt all sorts of careful channelling of springs and streams in remote parts and I think there were water lifters powered by loco steam to fill cisterns at various stabling points (e.g. Fairford). Meanwhile numerous signal cabins and other isolated locations relied on water cans brought in by convenient trains to keep the kettle filled. One of the strangest arrangements of which I am aware were at the hydropathic baths at the Imperial Hotel Great Malvern (originally a railway hotel), which AIUI relied on spring water channelled and piped along the line from its source deep within Colwall Tunnel combined with natural brine water brought in by rail from Droitwich Spa.

Are others aware of other unusual sources and or uses of water in relation to railway operation?

 

[randyrippley]

Didn't the GWR buy the Taunton Canal just to get it's water supply?

 

[The Puddock]

Many of the houses in Blair Atholl are still on the original private water supply installed by the Highland Railway in the 19th century, which is now the responsibility of Network Rail.

 

[The exile]

Wasn’t there a brewery at Sudbrook using Severn Tunnel water?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Might one include in this thread / topic the small fleet of water tankers provided by Whale Tankers Ltd of Solihull (in conjunction with Network Rail) which are used to clear trackside drains of blockages around the network?

Pic of 'Rail Whale' hydro cleansing water tanker.

 

[RichA]

Gadget1987's investigations into the well under the floorboards discussed elsewhere made me wonder about unusual sources of water which the railways may have employed for loco and other uses, especially in the absence of mains supplies or direct extraction from rivers. There were no doubt all sorts of careful channelling of springs and streams in remote parts and I think there were water lifters powered by loco steam to fill cisterns at various stabling points (e.g. Fairford). Meanwhile numerous signal cabins and other isolated locations relied on water cans brought in by convenient trains to keep the kettle filled. One of the strangest arrangements of which I am aware were at the hydropathic baths at the Imperial Hotel Great Malvern (originally a railway hotel), which AIUI relied on spring water channelled and piped along the line from its source deep within Colwall Tunnel combined with natural brine water brought in by rail from Droitwich Spa.

Are others aware of other unusual sources and or uses of water in relation to railway operation?

That same source within Colwall tunnel was still supplying Malvern Wells Signalbox a few years ago, and maybe still is?

 

[Elecman]

Gadget1987's investigations into the well under the floorboards discussed elsewhere made me wonder about unusual sources of water which the railways may have employed for loco and other uses, especially in the absence of mains supplies or direct extraction from rivers. There were no doubt all sorts of careful channelling of springs and streams in remote parts and I think there were water lifters powered by loco steam to fill cisterns at various stabling points (e.g. Fairford). Meanwhile numerous signal cabins and other isolated locations relied on water cans brought in by convenient trains to keep the kettle filled. One of the strangest arrangements of which I am aware were at the hydropathic baths at the Imperial Hotel Great Malvern (originally a railway hotel), which AIUI relied on spring water channelled and piped along the line from its source deep within Colwall Tunnel combined with natural brine water brought in by rail from Droitwich Spa.

Are others aware of other unusual sources and or uses of water in relation to railway operation?

The Colwall tunnel supply still feeds Malvern Wells Signalbox with water ( not for drinking though).
Garsdale and Settle Junction signal boxes are fed from private 3rd party springs.
Blea Moor had no running water at all

That same source within Colwall tunnel was still supplying Malvern Wells Signalbox a few years ago, and maybe still is?

It still does but not for drinking purposes

 

[John Webb]

The GWR had the facility to fill locos where their tracks passed under the Edstone Aquaduct on the Stratford Canal.

 

[Morayshire]

Many of the houses in Blair Atholl are still on the original private water supply installed by the Highland Railway in the 19th century, which is now the responsibility of Network Rail.

Thought Scottish Water took over the water supply for Blair Atholl from Network Rail several years ago?

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Didn’t some MLVs ferry water tanks from a well in the Dover area to Ramsgate one drought year? Presumably BR had a well from which they could still abstract.

 

[6Gman]

Llandudno Junction shed (7A and later 6G) drew its loco water supply pumped from the Gyffin stream in Conwy, on the other side of the estuary. A pipe ran across the tubular bridge and then along the embankment (known as The Cob) that carried - and still carries - the railway.

To avoid contamination from salt water (loco boilers really, really don't like salt water) there was a weir on the stream to protect the site where the water was extracted from normal high tides.

However at particularly high tides the sea water would rise above the level of the weir. On these occasions my grandfather (Shop Officeman at the shed) would be sent over to switch the pump off just before the water rose over the weir (it was left to the last moment to secure the maximum amount of water). Then, when the tide receded, he would supervise the dismantling of the weir, the flushing out of the section from which water was drawn, and then the rebuilding of the weir.

All this was done because it was still cheaper than drawing from the public supply.

And the Shed Foreman would be one of the few who needed an office copy of the tide table!

 

[Man of Kent]

Didn’t some MLVs ferry water tanks from a well in the Dover area to Ramsgate one drought year? Presumably BR had a well from which they could still abstract.

Yes. The well was in the yard at Dover Priory, and it was taken to Ramsgate to enable train washing to take place. Saw them occasionally, but never managed a photograph; I think it was the summer of 1992, but may have been later.

 

[Taunton]

Didn't the GWR buy the Taunton Canal just to get it's water supply?

Yes they did. Later the use of canal water was substantially increased. The water troughs at Creech St Michael, east of Taunton, were sited where railway and canal run parallel (and thus level - necessary for troughs) with a steam pumping engine to fill them. I wrote about this somewhere here before **. Meanwhile at Taunton station the huge water tank just east of the station, still there, is likewise between railway and canal.

I seem to recall the river authority, when asked, prevented the railway from abstracting their water. However they had a prior, unlimited agreement with the canal company for them to take it. So the railway bought the canal company, which they had anyway forced to become moribund.

** It's here :

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/locomotives-requiring-water.232269/#post-5680187

 

[The Puddock]

Thought Scottish Water took over the water supply for Blair Atholl from Network Rail several years ago?

Nope, NR still responsible.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Yes. The well was in the yard at Dover Priory, and it was taken to Ramsgate to enable train washing to take place. Saw them occasionally, but never managed a photograph; I think it was the summer of 1992, but may have been later.

Thanks.

 

[oldman]

Nope, NR still responsible.

From a 2007 NR press release:

Photographers and journalists are invited to attend the completion of the connection of Blair Atholl and Bridge of Tilt's water supply to Scottish Water. Network Rail is funding the £1.2 million project for Scottish Water to connect the villages to the public water mains. For almost a century, more than 230 households, businesses and schools in Blair Atholl and Bridge of Tilt were supplied with water from a private supply maintained by the railway.

 

[Andy873]

Before the end of steam Rose Grove engine shed (Burnley) got its water directly from the Leeds & Liverpool canal. It was said that at the Horwich locomotive works they could tell (even without looking at the engine's shed code) that the loco was from there because when any were drained of water there were always lots of little fish (tiddles) in the water.

 

[341o2]

In the early days of the Tallyllyn, there was an incident where the person responsible for raising steam forgot to turn on the tap for the water tank. The driver thought he had enough water to reach Dolgoch, but ran short at Brynglas, and buckets were borrowed to fill the locomotive tank from the stream.

The Dorset Coast Express, and similar charters between London and Weymouth have stopped at Beaulieu Rd, to be refilled by a fire tender

 

[Taunton]

These various water amusements made it into various fictions of the era.

The fish in the tank started with David L Smith's G&SW stories, collated into a well-known book but originally each chapter was a magazine article, read by the Rev Awdry and incorporated in one of the Thomas stories, the same inspiration source for various of those books' escapades. Incidentally there was a practical reason for putting a fish in there, it would eat the vegetation matter from badly filtered water.

The bucket brigade on the Talyllyn, recounted by LTC Rolt in his book 'Railway Adventure', got into the film 'Titfield Thunderbolt', where indeed the whole film had been inspired by the Talyllyn volunteers.

 

[Pigeon]

One of the strangest arrangements of which I am aware were at the hydropathic baths at the Imperial Hotel Great Malvern (originally a railway hotel), which AIUI relied on spring water channelled and piped along the line from its source deep within Colwall Tunnel combined with natural brine water brought in by rail from Droitwich Spa.

I am pretty sure that no Malvern spa establishment used Droitwich brine, nor vice versa. If they did I'm sure I'd have heard of it by now.

The attractions of the two spas were entirely different. Malvern spas use the spring water from the hills, which is of extreme purity ("famed for containing just nothing at all"), and as well as people bathing in it (in various inventively unpleasant ways) it's good to drink. The attraction of Droitwich brine is floating around buoyantly in a warm pool of extremely concentrated salt solution, which had little basins round the edge to spit into in case you accidentally got any in your mouth.

That hotel has a corrugated iron covered way linking it directly to Great Malvern down platform. It also used to have its own siding which IIRC used a wagon turntable to enable single wagons to make an otherwise unfeasibly sharp 90 degree turn off the main line to be taken under the hotel. You can still just about see where it used to be on the north side of the overbridge.

 

[randyrippley]

Autumn 1977 I was in a DMU running Carlisle - Newcastle in a heatwave.
Engine was banging from presumably a blown head gasket
We stopped something like four times for the radiator to be topped up by bucket from lineside ditches and streams

 

[furnessvale]

Water ingress to the Mersey railway tunnel has always been a problem, entering the tunnel in huge volumes. In 1972/3 I was resident engineer installing new pumps and associated pipework in the Liverpool Piehead pumping station. The water was then pumped to the new Liverpool Echo building to be used for air conditioning. I have since left the area, but I believe the Echo closed and the water is now simply pumped back into the Marsey.

On a separate note, water for Preston loco was drawn from the Lancaster canal, where the WCML crosses the canal, and ran through a pipe to the sheds.

 

[randyrippley]

On a separate note, water for Preston loco was drawn from the Lancaster canal, where the WCML crosses the canal, and ran through a pipe to the sheds.

It's surprising that the Lancaster canal has never been tied into the NW water distribution network.

 

[bleeder4]

From a 2007 NR press release:

Also mentioned in the booklet of a railtour I went on.

 

[StoneRoad]

Does the current kerfuffle with the mine[?]water draining from Corkickle Tunnel into White Orangehaven marina count ?

 

[aar0]

Welsh Water and its predecessors’ reports show railway abstractions in the 70s and prior, all over the Welsh railway network. They don’t note their uses, but previous posts here have suggested mainly for human use in signal boxes etc.

 

[Rescars]

Thanks all for your very interesting responses.

I am pretty sure that no Malvern spa establishment used Droitwich brine, nor vice versa. If they did I'm sure I'd have heard of it by now.

The attractions of the two spas were entirely different. Malvern spas use the spring water from the hills, which is of extreme purity ("famed for containing just nothing at all"), and as well as people bathing in it (in various inventively unpleasant ways) it's good to drink. The attraction of Droitwich brine is floating around buoyantly in a warm pool of extremely concentrated salt solution, which had little basins round the edge to spit into in case you accidentally got any in your mouth.

That hotel has a corrugated iron covered way linking it directly to Great Malvern down platform. It also used to have its own siding which IIRC used a wagon turntable to enable single wagons to make an otherwise unfeasibly sharp 90 degree turn off the main line to be taken under the hotel. You can still just about see where it used to be on the north side of the overbridge.

I defer to Pigeon's clarification on the matter of Droitwich brine. Too much reliance on unreliable rumour and hearsay! Further investigation suggests that the wagon turntable under the hotel was used only for the supply of coal. I have found mention that there were two separate pipes leading from Colwall tunnel, one supplying the hotel and the other Great Malvern and Malvern Link stations. I wonder if this pipe still supplies Malvern Wells box and if in the past it also supplied Malvern Wells station and Malvern and Tewkesbury Junction box. In regard to other Malvern water, presumably Schweppe's bottling plant at Colwall generated a reasonable volume of freight traffic pre WW2.

On the matter of water from tunnels, does anyone know what use is made now of the huge output from the Great Spring in the Severn Tunnel?

 

[furnessvale]

It's surprising that the Lancaster canal has never been tied into the NW water distribution network.

Risking going OT, there are many canals nationally that could form a water grid north to south for water supply.

 

[341o2]

If overseas railways are permitted, both the Shay, for example the one supplied to the Chilean Transandine and the Baldwin locos supplied to the WW1 railways had the ability to suck up water from any nearby source

 

[timnjmorris@gm]

Thanks all for your very interesting responses.

I defer to Pigeon's clarification on the matter of Droitwich brine. Too much reliance on unreliable rumour and hearsay! Further investigation suggests that the wagon turntable under the hotel was used only for the supply of coal. I have found mention that there were two separate pipes leading from Colwall tunnel, one supplying the hotel and the other Great Malvern and Malvern Link stations. I wonder if this pipe still supplies Malvern Wells box and if in the past it also supplied Malvern Wells station and Malvern and Tewkesbury Junction box. In regard to other Malvern water, presumably Schweppe's bottling plant at Colwall generated a reasonable volume of freight traffic pre WW2.

On the matter of water from tunnels, does anyone know what use is made now of the huge output from the Great Spring in the Severn Tunnel?

Magor brewery - 2.5 million gallons a day I have read