UPDATE: Received an email regarding shortfaring after receiving a letter for the same. Advice needed.

[beepboop1]

Hi all,

I found this forum after my incident occurred and reading through other threads has been extremely helpful. It has put my mind at ease a little after feeling very overwhelmed, embarrassed, and stressed.

I received my letter today regarding my incident (caught using a ticket for a shorter journey than I had bought). I was expecting the letter and I assumed that I would need to write my reply, apology, promise to never again dodge a train fare, and request to settle without court. However, the letter I received gives me the option to pay the fee of £175, plus my correct fare, to avoid legal proceedings straight away.

I was also told that "my account would be reviewed" and I would receive a fine per shortfare (I have foolishly done this about 15 times and it has caught up to me, as it should really). I bought my ticket on a "Guest" Trainline account, but it is possible to view my previous journeys made with the Guest option.
I have not been quoted a fine for any other journey, as the fine amount listed in the letter only accounts for a single return journey.

Does all of this mean that I do not need to send the letter back to them? Or do I need to pay the fine, fill in the form, and send the letter back to them anyway? Will they still review my Guest Trainline account and fine me for other journeys, or have I been fined for the single time I was caught?

I have attached a photo of the letter that was sent to me, and I would appreciate any advice or guidance that the lovely people of this forum could offer me.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this

EDIT: I have now paid the fine in full and have received email confirmation for this. Do I still need to fill in the details at the bottom of the letter and send it back to them, or is this matter now settled?

 

[Haywain]

Does all of this mean that I do not need to send the letter back to them? Or do I need to pay the fine, fill in the form, and send the letter back to them anyway? Will they still review my Guest Trainline account and fine me for other journeys, or have I been fined for the single time I was caught?

In your situation I think it would be very advisable to get that paid immediately.

 

[30907]

WMR have short-circuited the process for you, so pay up in full and that's an end to it. I presume you can think of no mitigating factors?

It is possible that WMR haven't searched your history. Once you have settled, if they do start investigating you can ignore any mails from them mentioning "possibly avoiding fares on other occasions." So long as you don't get caught offending again, they have no proof.

 

[beepboop1]

In your situation I think it would be very advisable to get that paid immediately.

Yes, I was planning to pay the fine today regardless of any further action needed As they've given me instructions on how to pay, I'm going to pay it straight away. I don't want any outstanding fines.

WMR have short-circuited the process for you, so pay up in full and that's an end to it. I presume you can think of no mitigating factors?

It is possible that WMR haven't searched your history. Once you have settled, if they do start investigating you can ignore any mails from them mentioning "possibly avoiding fares on other occasions." So long as you don't get caught offending again, they have no proof.

Thank you so much for your reply!
Exactly - I have no excuse and no reason why I wouldn't need to pay the fine, so as long as I can settle straight away, that works for me.

I have paid the fine in full - do I still need to fill in the personal details section of the letter I received and send it back to them? Or is this matter now closed?

 

[beepboop1]

Hi all,

I posted in the forum yesterday after receiving a letter from WMR regarding an incident in which I was caught using a ticket for a shorter journey than I was travelling. The letter gave me the opportunity to pay a fine of £175, plus the correct amount of the journey I was caught on, which I promptly paid.

This morning I have received an email from the fraud team at WMR, which I have attached to this thread.
I am planning to reply to the email with a message containing the following:

* Acknowledgement of the incident (yes, I have done this)
* Admitting to have done this before (my Trainline guest account which I'm guessing they've reviewed shows 15 cases of shortfaring over the past couple of years)
* Apology for my selfish acts
* A promise to never do this again (the two journeys I have made since the incident have been correct and paid in full)
* A plea to settle out of court

I haven't yet drafted my response, but I can do so and send it here if that's helpful.

Will I be able to settle out of court for the multiple shortfares, and will I still receive a criminal record for my actions? I'm very worried by the wording of the email (stating that, even if it was just a fine with no jail time, it would result in a criminal record) as having a criminal record would affect my future job prospects.

I also have the issue of already having paid the fine for the shortfare I was caught with. Will I need to pay another £175 on top of my outstanding shortfares? I should be able to do this, but I'd just like to prepare my finances if this is the case.

My sister received the exact same email with the same wording, as she was with my at the time and was also caught shortfaring. I know, we're both idiots and we never should have done it. Now we're both in trouble. She is equally as worried about the criminal record aspect of the email.

I would really appreciate any insight or guidance regarding this incident.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Haywain]

I would be inclined to do nothing for the time being. If they don't refund your payment of £175 on the basis of an error requesting it then they have accepted the payment and cannot prosecute for the incident when you were caught, and that means they have no leverage to obtain payment for other incidents from you. If that remains the case it is probably better to ignore the letter.

 

[beepboop1]

I would be inclined to do nothing for the time being. If they don't refund your payment of £175 on the basis of an error requesting it then they have accepted the payment and cannot prosecute for the incident when you were caught, and that means they have no leverage to obtain payment for other incidents from you. If that remains the case it is probably better to ignore the letter.

Thank you for your response.
What about the review of my Trainline account? They've found multiple cases of shortfaring, so wouldn't I have to respond to that and pay the fine for the additional cases?

Also, if anyone has any advice regarding my sister's situation, I would really appreciate it too. She hasn't received a letter, but she has received the same email as me. She hasn't sent a response yet, and she hasn't paid any fines (because she didn't receive the letter asking her to do so) yet.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

What about the review of my Trainline account? They've found multiple cases of shortfaring, so wouldn't I have to respond to that and pay the fine for the additional cases?

They would have found evidence of the purchase of tickets from A to B. They have made a conjecture that your travel was from A to C (beyond B). Do they have any proof of your travel to C other than what you might tell them and the day they caught up with you.

 

[Haywain]

Also, if anyone has any advice regarding my sister's situation, I would really appreciate it too. She hasn't received a letter, but she has received the same email as me. She hasn't sent a response yet, and she hasn't paid any fines (because she didn't receive the letter asking her to do so) yet.

Your sister will need to respond as the threat of prosecution is live, and she will likely have to pay an amount regarding other journeys. Whilst your cases are similar, they are not the same and it would be easier to assist her if she were to open a new thread.

 

[MotCO]

Hi all,

I posted in the forum yesterday after receiving a letter from WMR regarding an incident in which I was caught using a ticket for a shorter journey than I was travelling. The letter gave me the opportunity to pay a fine of £175, plus the correct amount of the journey I was caught on, which I promptly paid.

This morning I have received an email from the fraud team at WMR, which I have attached to this thread.
I am planning to reply to the email with a message containing the following:

* Acknowledgement of the incident (yes, I have done this)
* Admitting to have done this before (my Trainline guest account which I'm guessing they've reviewed shows 15 cases of shortfaring over the past couple of years)
* Apology for my selfish acts
* A promise to never do this again (the two journeys I have made since the incident have been correct and paid in full)
* A plea to settle out of court

I haven't yet drafted my response, but I can do so and send it here if that's helpful.

Will I be able to settle out of court for the multiple shortfares, and will I still receive a criminal record for my actions? I'm very worried by the wording of the email (stating that, even if it was just a fine with no jail time, it would result in a criminal record) as having a criminal record would affect my future job prospects.

I also have the issue of already having paid the fine for the shortfare I was caught with. Will I need to pay another £175 on top of my outstanding shortfares? I should be able to do this, but I'd just like to prepare my finances if this is the case.

My sister received the exact same email with the same wording, as she was with my at the time and was also caught shortfaring. I know, we're both idiots and we never should have done it. Now we're both in trouble. She is equally as worried about the criminal record aspect of the email.

I would really appreciate any insight or guidance regarding this incident.

Thank you for your time.

Can you clarify if there were two separate instances of short-faring, one you have settled, and one relating to the email you received today, or just the one incident? I was confused by why you thought you may have to pay £175 twice.

 

[beepboop1]

They would have found evidence of the purchase of tickets from A to B. They have made a conjecture that your travel was from A to C (beyond B). Do they have any proof of your travel to C other than what you might tell them and the day they caught up with you.

When I was caught, I claimed to have travelled from a gated station and (as I hadn't scanned through those gates), they knew I was lying. I started my journey from a station with no gates, so I was able to get onto the train without scanning through anything. When I was questioned by the staff at the station when I arrived, I admitted to starting my journey at the no-gate station, admitting my guilt because I wanted to be cooperative and I knew I'd messed up. No point lying about it when I'd been caught.
The other instances of shortfaring were also claiming to be from that same gated station. I'm not sure if they could go back and check if the tickets were scanned through or not, but if that's possible, then they would be able to find out I had shortfared the other times too. If that makes sense :P

Your sister will need to respond as the threat of prosecution is live, and she will likely have to pay an amount regarding other journeys. Whilst your cases are similar, they are not the same and it would be easier to assist her if she were to open a new thread.

Okay, no worries! I'll create another account to post a separate thread for that case then

Can you clarify if there were two separate instances of short-faring, one you have settled, and one relating to the email you received today, or just the one incident? I was confused by why you thought you may have to pay £175 twice.

The fine I paid yesterday was quoted as one instance of short-faring (£175, plus £7 something for a return journey). However, it was seen during my interview with the station staff that my Trainline guest account (where I had bought my ticket) had multiple cases of short-faring. I assume they've reviewed this account and I will be fined for multiple short-fared journeys. I'm just not sure how to proceed as I've already paid the fine listed in the letter I received (I assume for the time where I was caught short-faring), but I have also received an email this morning threatening action against me. So I'm just a bit confused about what to do now...

 

[MotCO]

I would be inclined to do nothing for the time being. If they don't refund your payment of £175 on the basis of an error requesting it then they have accepted the payment and cannot prosecute for the incident when you were caught, and that means they have no leverage to obtain payment for other incidents from you. If that remains the case it is probably better to ignore the letter.

In the light of the OP's response in post #11, is this still your advice?

Can you clarify if there were two separate instances of short-faring, one you have settled, and one relating to the email you received today, or just the one incident? I was confused by why you thought you may have to pay £175 twice.

The fine I paid yesterday was quoted as one instance of short-faring (£175, plus £7 something for a return journey). However, it was seen during my interview with the station staff that my Trainline guest account (where I had bought my ticket) had multiple cases of short-faring. I assume they've reviewed this account and I will be fined for multiple short-fared journeys. I'm just not sure how to proceed as I've already paid the fine listed in the letter I received (I assume for the time where I was caught short-faring), but I have also received an email this morning threatening action against me. So I'm just a bit confused about what to do now...

 

[Haywain]

In the light of the OP's response in post #11, is this still your advice?

Yes.

 

[beepboop1]

Yes.

Should I reply to the email with evidence of the fine payment outlined in the original letter? To show that I have made some sort of response to them? Or should I just wait and see what happens? I don't want them to send me another email in a few weeks saying that I haven't responded to them and I'm in bigger trouble now

If anyone has any further advice about this, I would be really grateful. I'm worried that, if I simply ignore the email, they will take this as me intentionally avoiding them for malicious reasons. Should I reply to the email and state that I have already paid a fine, and ask if there is any further action to be taken? The fact that they have sent me an email surely means that there is more to my case than the short-fare I was stopped (and fined in the letter) for, right?
I'm going to be away from the country for a couple of weeks soon and I don't want to leave this hanging in case things get worse.
Sorry if I'm spamming - I'm just worried about what might happen if I send no response to them at all. I have paid the fine they requested in the letter, but the email was sent the day after. I haven't replied to the letter (because it reads like I should only send a reply if I want to make an excuse for myself), and I haven't replied to the email. Only paid the fine. It feels like this is unfinished...