Use of mk2 air-con stock on steam railtours

[peteb]

I've seen some YouTube videos of Tangmere on Shap and the S&C this week hauling a train largely comprised of mk2 air-con stock.

I'm well aware of the non-availability of central door locking MK1 stock which has given rise to this situation.

Does anyone have any reports on what it's like on board these trains? Can you actually hear the loco working at all?

I'm not booking tours which will run with mk2 air-con stock until I can assess whether the experience is going to be radically different from the mk1's I'm used to or indeed the non-air-con mk2 stock as used by Vintage trains.

Any advice or opinions gratefully received!

 

[co-tr-paul]

Ditto. Understand though that at least some of these are having sliding top vents added .

 

[12LDA28C]

I've seen some YouTube videos of Tangmere in Shap and the S&C this week hauling a train largely comprised of mk2 air-con stock.

I'm well aware of the non-availability of central door locking MK1 stock which has given rise to this situation.

Does anyone have any reports on what it's like on board these trains? Can you actually hear the loco working at all?

I'm not booking tours which will run with mk2 air-con stock until I can assess whether the experience is going to be radically different from the mk1's I'm used to or indeed the non-air-con mk2 stock as used by Vintage trains.

Any advice or opinions gratefully received!

Very unlikely you'd hear the loco working unless you're in the front one or two coaches and had the vestibule door and droplight window open.

Saphos steam tours run by LSL use Mark 1s if that's your thing.

 

[fgwrich]

Ditto. Understand though that at least some of these are having sliding top vents added .

Indeed. It’ll be interesting to see how these turn out.

 

[peteb]

Very unlikely you'd hear the loco working unless you're in the front one or two coaches and had the vestibule door and droplight window open.

Saphos steam tours run by LSL use Mark 1s if that's your thing.

Thanks, I understand their first class is MK1, but standard is in air con mk2, or at least has been to date.

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Indeed. It’ll be interesting to see how these turn out.

Is that for real or a Photoshop? I can imagine some steward saying, "don't open the vents because the Aircon won't work"...!!!!

 

[fgwrich]

Thanks, I understand their first class is MK1, but standard is in air con mk2, or at least has been to date.

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Is that for real or a Photoshop? I can imagine some steward saying, "don't open the vents because the Aircon won't work"...!!!!

Very much for real, it's part of the work being undertaken for Riviera Trains by DB at Nottingley along with the toilet tank fitment.

 

[peteb]

Very much for real, it's part of the work being undertaken for Riviera Trains by DB at Nottingley along with the toilet tank fitment.

Thanks for posting the photo!

 

[Spaceship323]

Is that for real or a Photoshop? I can imagine some steward saying, "don't open the vents because the Aircon won't work"...!!!!

I would imagine it's cheaper to modify the windows and run the coaches without the aircon working

 

[Iskra]

Very unlikely you'd hear the loco working unless you're in the front one or two coaches and had the vestibule door and droplight window open.

Saphos steam tours run by LSL use Mark 1s if that's your thing.

I got a Statesman Mk2 behind Sir Nigel Gresley in the Saphos rake last year. We were first coach after the support coach and the OP will be glad to hear that the soundtrack was still phenomenal. I think proximity to the locomotive is more important than the type of coach used. Although, obviously it needs to be on at least a mildly challenge route for the locomotive and not so hot that there’s a fire risk too, for there even to be much sound.

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Indeed. It’ll be interesting to see how these turn out.

That’s a great innovation to keep the enthusiasts happy. Thanks for sharing.

 

[12LDA28C]

That’s a great innovation to keep the enthusiasts happy. Thanks for sharing.

Not sure it's about keeping the enthusiasts happy - more like providing a ventilation option when the air con inevitably fails.

 

[peteb]

Not sure it's about keeping the enthusiasts happy - more like providing a ventilation option when the air con inevitably fails.

Might permit use without a diesel if Aircon power optional.

 

[43096]

Might permit use without a diesel if Aircon power optional.

It doesn't, because there's various other auxiliaries that need power.

 

[12LDA28C]

Might permit use without a diesel if Aircon power optional.

Aircon power may be optional but power for lighting, any buffet/kitchen equipment and CDL isn't.

 

[renegademaster]

The diesel is for backup and reversing.
Most of the Mark 2 railtour sets have a generator car

 

[DarloRich]

Does anyone have any reports on what it's like on board these trains? Can you actually hear the loco working at all

Whilst this seems to be of critical important to posters here the majority of real people wont care if the loco is working hard or if they can hear it. They want a nice day out, some decent scran, a couple of glasses of wine and some decent company.

I'm not booking tours which will run with mk2 air-con stock until I can assess whether the experience is going to be radically different from the mk1's I'm used to or indeed the non-air-con mk2 stock as used by Vintage trains.

I am not trying to be difficult here but what will be "radically different" in using a different type of carriage? Will you be sitting on the floor?

 

[12LDA28C]

Whilst this seems to be of critical important to posters here the majority of real people wont care if the loco is working hard or if they can hear it. They want a nice day out, some decent scran, a couple of glasses of wine and some decent company.



I am not trying to be difficult here but what will be "radically different" in using a different type of carriage? Will you be sitting on the floor?

You've answered your own question. If someone books on a railtour with the objective of seeing, hearing and smelling their preferred choice of motive power working hard, which would be possible in a Mark 1 coach with opening windows at every bay of seats, the experience would certainly be quite different in a sealed air-conditioned Mark 2 or 3 coach with no opening windows except the body-end door droplights. Whilst this may not seem significant to you, for a good proportion of haulage enthusiasts it's an important factor to consider when booking on tours and they simply won't pay for tours where the 'wrong' type of stock is used. The more 'normal' passengers such as daytrippers, tourists and families however probably wouldn't be fussed either way.

 

[DarloRich]

You've answered your own question. If someone books on a railtour with the objective of seeing, hearing and smelling their preferred choice of motive power working hard, which would be possible in a Mark 1 coach with opening windows at every bay of seats, the experience would certainly be quite different in a sealed air-conditioned Mark 2 or 3 coach with no opening windows except the body-end door droplights. Whilst this may not seem significant to you, for a good proportion of haulage enthusiasts it's an important factor to consider when booking on tours and they simply won't pay for tours where the 'wrong' type of stock is used.

I would question whether it is true for " a lot of people" or for a lot of people HERE? Which is the bigger market - spotters or peopel out for a nice day? I think the later and we shouldn't think that the needs of the spotter are the most important thing.

 

[yorksrob]

A steam train with mk2's ?

It would just look wrong.

 

[peteb]

You've answered your own question. If someone books on a railtour with the objective of seeing, hearing and smelling their preferred choice of motive power working hard, which would be possible in a Mark 1 coach with opening windows at every bay of seats, the experience would certainly be quite different in a sealed air-conditioned Mark 2 or 3 coach with no opening windows except the body-end door droplights. Whilst this may not seem significant to you, for a good proportion of haulage enthusiasts it's an important factor to consider when booking on tours and they simply won't pay for tours where the 'wrong' type of stock is used. The more 'normal' passengers such as daytrippers, tourists and families however probably wouldn't be fussed either way.

Agreed.

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I would question whether it is true for " a lot of people" or for a lot of people HERE? Which is the bigger market - spotters or peopel out for a nice day? I think the later and we shouldn't think that the needs of the spotter are the most important thing.

I'm not a spotter,and am out for a nice day but still prefer to be hauled in period carriages contemporary with the steam locomotives as one is in a preserved line but with added bonus of speed up to 75mph.

 

[DarloRich]

A steam train with mk2's ?

It would just look wrong.

wait until they use mkiii - your mind will melt

Agreed.

ok - Which, truthfully, do you think is the greater market & thus the greater reward: hearing a loco working hard or people out for a nice day?

 

[peteb]

A steam train with mk2's ?

It would just look wrong.

It does.....see YouTube.

 

[yorksrob]

wait until they use mkiii - your mind will melt

It's hurting at the thought

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It does.....see YouTube.

I'll seek it out - for entertainment !

 

[peteb]

Whilst this seems to be of critical important to posters here the majority of real people wont care if the loco is working hard or if they can hear it. They want a nice day out, some decent scran, a couple of glasses of wine and some decent company.



I am not trying to be difficult here but what will be "radically different" in using a different type of carriage? Will you be sitting on the floor?

Radically different is the ambience in the train. I can catch a pendolino if I want to travel in near silence, just the noise of people's conversations, mobile phones etc for company. On a mainline steam train with MK1 or mk2a/b stock you are effectively recreating travel in the 1960s with the noise and smell of the steam train evident. The noise also drowns out some of the conversation, true, but rather hear a steam loco than some person mouthing off about politics, religion or football for a whole day, and believe me I've had plenty of those!!

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not a spotter,and am out for a nice day but still prefer to be hauled in period carriages contemporary with the steam locomotives as one is in a preserved line but with added bonus of speed up to 75mph.

I don't disagree with that. However, what happens if the contemporary carriages are simply not appropriate for the modern world? We are in this position because mitigations and variations to standards weren't followed. ( lets not get into the crankish stuff about nanny states of elf and safety gone made -we are where we are)

I have been on many steam tours and had a lovely day out each time, sometimes in the cheap ( er) seats and sometimes in the posh seats. I would rather run a steam special and have people enjoy the day out, for the reasons you state, than not run because the windows wont open.

Whilst acknowledging each to their own and speaking personally, to NOT book a day out because the windows in a railway carriage wont open seems bizarre

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Radically different is the ambience in the train. I can catch a pendolino if I want to travel in near silence, just the noise of people's conversations, mobile phones etc for company. On a mainline steam train with MK1 or mk2a/b stock you are effectively recreating travel in the 1960s with the noise and smell of the steam train evident. The noise also drowns out some of the conversation, true, but rather hear a steam loco than some person mouthing off about politics, religion or football for a whole day, and believe me I've had plenty of those!!

But the noise of a steam train wont cancel that out - it isnt Concorde taking off next to your head! I have been on these tours and been next to some right crusty old duffers spouting nonsense about all kinds of stuff ALL day! I would also rather spend the time talking to the person I am traveling with than sitting listening to chuffing all day!

PS i don't agree there will be a "radically different ambience in the train" - it will be slightly different for a few people.

 

[12LDA28C]

wait until they use mkiii - your mind will melt

Steam Dreams have already run tours using Mk3s with a steam loco several times.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Feb 2024 ==

I would question whether it is true for " a lot of people" or for a lot of people HERE? Which is the bigger market - spotters or peopel out for a nice day? I think the later and we shouldn't think that the needs of the spotter are the most important thing.

I didn't say it was true for 'a lot of people'. I said it was true for 'a good proportion of haulage enthusiasts' which I concede may not make up a huge percentage of passengers on the average charter train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Feb 2024 ==

I would also rather spend the time talking to the person I am traveling with than sitting listening to chuffing all day!

Taking this statement to its logical conclusion - you might as well just go to the pub if it's conversation you're after with no 'chuffing' to interrupt your chat, or catch a service train to a suitable destination if it's a day out you want.

 

[DarloRich]

Taking this statement to its logical conclusion - you might as well just go to the pub if it's conversation you're after with no 'chuffing' to interrupt your chat, or catch a service train to a suitable destination if it's a day out you want.

they tend to serve better food and have a better wine list on the steam trip compared with the pendolino ( the steam trip is also often cheaper !)

 

[43096]

wait until they use mkiii - your mind will melt

Like this, you mean?

Tornado at Great Central Railway Nottingham

Great to see Peppercorn A1 60163 Tornado at Great Central Railway Nottingham for the weekend 10 and 11 February 2018

www.flickr.com

(Link to photo of Tornado with Mark 3s at the GCRN)

 

[gg1]

A steam train with mk2's ?

It would just look wrong.

Ahem :



https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/67100-apollos-grand-days-out/page/2/

Image description - b/w photo of a Britannia hauling a passenger service where the lead coach is a Blue & Grey mk2. Info provided by the photographer in the linked thread states it was taken in 1966 or 67 in Wigan.

 

[peteb]

Ahem :

View attachment 153199

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/67100-apollos-grand-days-out/page/2/

Image description - b/w photo of a Britannia hauling a passenger service where the lead coach is a Blue & Grey mk2. Info provided by the photographer in the linked thread states it was taken in 1966 or 67 in Wigan.

Yes that's a mark 2a with opening windows, no issues with the non air con stock.

 

[yorksrob]

Ahem :

View attachment 153199

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/67100-apollos-grand-days-out/page/2/

Image description - b/w photo of a Britannia hauling a passenger service where the lead coach is a Blue & Grey mk2. Info provided by the photographer in the linked thread states it was taken in 1966 or 67 in Wigan.

That doesn't look too bad actually.