Using a road rail vehicle to pull freight wagons?

[montyburns56]

I came across this picture of a Class 47 pulling a single HEA wagon down the Pensnett Branch and it made me wonder if BR or private companies have ever considered using road rail vehicles to pull short freight trains on short freight only branch lines? I know that they have been used as shunters across the world, but have they ever been used to pull freight trains? Would it be actually feasible or are they too slow? I don't know if the economics would work as I guess it might be cheaper to just use a spare loco, but wasn't the cost of the trip workings one of the reasons why Speedlink was losing so much money?

Pensnett Bound

Class 47/4 47465 was working the 6T42 trip freight from Bescot and was recorded heading away from Brierley Hill with a single loaded HEA coal hopper for delivery to Pensnett (Shut End) on the former Wombourne branch. All images on this site are exclusive property and may not be copied...

flic.kr

 

[AM9]

I came across this picture of a Class 47 pulling a single HEA wagon down the Pensnett Branch and it made me wonder if BR or private companies have ever considered using road rail vehicles to pull short freight trains on short freight only branch lines? I know that they have been used as shunters across the world, but have they ever been used to pull freight trains? Would it be actually feasible or are they too slow? I don't know if the economics would work as I guess it might be cheaper to just use a spare loco, but wasn't the cost of the trip workings one of the reasons why Speedlink was losing so much money?

Pensnett Bound

Class 47/4 47465 was working the 6T42 trip freight from Bescot and was recorded heading away from Brierley Hill with a single loaded HEA coal hopper for delivery to Pensnett (Shut End) on the former Wombourne branch. All images on this site are exclusive property and may not be copied...

flic.kr

Would a road rail vehicle have sufficient braking performance? Do they have provision for connecting to air braked wagons?

 

[LMS 4F]

At Rockware Glass in Knottingley, West Yorkshire, in the 1970s sand was delivered by rail. To get it across the the A645 it was moved one wagon at a time by using a normal tractor running on its usual wheels whilst the wagon was of course still on rails.
The traffic was halted by a man stood in the road holding two red flags. I only wish I had taken a picture but at the time it all seemed very normal.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Several sugar mills I visited in Java back in 2004 used tractors to shunt the cane wagons. More recently this week’s Channel 5 programme about Bressingham featured a tractor drawing the restored Terrier from the restoration shed

 

[HSTEd]

Would a road rail vehicle have sufficient braking performance? Do they have provision for connecting to air braked wagons?

If traditional ones don't I'm sure fitting a compressor to one is probably an achievable modification.
Unimogs and similar road railers are not uncommonly used for shunting after all.

Rubber tyres on steel rails have much higher friction coefficient so should be able to deliver much higher tractive and braking effort than a locomotive of a similar weight would.

Also worth noting that a road railer would only need a path whilst hauling wagons....

Apparently Unimogs with air brakes do exist, looks like it could be used for trip freight if it can do 50km/h....

It is likely to require full blown train protection (ETCS etc) to get a hope in hell of benig approved for safety reasons though.

 

[t_star2001uk]

An aggregate plant that i used to work at a long time ago had a Caterpillar wheeled loading shovel with draw gear fitted to the back end. This included a 3 link coupling, 2 square rubbing blocks with both train pipe and main reservoir. I cant remember haw many empty or loaded wagons that it could pull...

 

[johnmoly]

Happens a lot in the USA, see link to youtube:-

 

[mcmad]

happened during the building of the Stirling - Alloa - Kincardine line with a Unimog hauling a train of ballast hoppers. Getting a safety case to run any RRV outside a possession would be the biggest stumbling block.

 

[zuriblue]

There are also specialised road-railers with Westinghouse brakes.

One of the better known ones that I've seen are Trackmobile. https://trackmobile.com/

 

[PeterC]

The Joyce Green Hospital Tramway used ambulances to pull the previously horse drawn tramcars from the mid 20s until the mid 30s.

 

[HSTEd]

Getting a safety case to run any RRV outside a possession would be the biggest stumbling block.

I think the question likely becomes - can we make a Unimog esque vehicle that is compliant with crash safety requirements, and still remain road legal?

EDIT:

Supposedly (can't see the second page of the brochure because its only available on scribd of all places!) a Unomac T-Rail has a drawbar force of 82kN max and 25km/h with a trailing load.

Class 08 has more starting tractive effort, but at the end of the day the power at rail is probably going to be generally comparable to a Class 08/0..... (implying comparable continuous tractive effort)
Comparable top speed too.

It's not absurd that it could be used for branch line trip working.

The low speed on rail is partially made up for its ability to run on the road, so it can do light moves far more rapidly than an equivalent locomotive ever could - and doesn't consume valuable paths when not actually moving wagons!

 

[Ploughman]

happened during the building of the Stirling - Alloa - Kincardine line with a Unimog hauling a train of ballast hoppers. Getting a safety case to run any RRV outside a possession would be the biggest stumbling block.

I think the limit for a Unimog with ballast trailers not hoppers is 6 loaded trailers.
I think some photos may be found on the thread dealing with the landslip on the S+C last year or so.

 

[mcmad]

I suppose the question to answer is that if you need a 'big' loco to get the train to the start of the branch, what the benefit of having a separate RRV shunter is?

 

[HSTEd]

I suppose the question to answer is that if you need a 'big' loco to get the train to the start of the branch, what the benefit of having a separate RRV shunter is?

Well a locomotive that can jump on and off the rails as required probably permits substantial simplification of branch line trackwork.

 

[montyburns56]

Happens a lot in the USA, see link to youtube:-

Now that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about as that is not only pulling a decent sized train, but at a decent speed as well. The excavator on top of the wagons only adds to oddness of what's going on though.

 

[Murray J]

I don't know about if it's ever been considered as a more permanent arrangement but I have seen road rail excavators hauling rail wagons at East Grinstead when the line was closed by a landslip

 

[montyburns56]

I suppose the question to answer is that if you need a 'big' loco to get the train to the start of the branch, what the benefit of having a separate RRV shunter is?

Well you could have the main train just drop off the wagons at the start of the branch and carry on it's way, leaving the road rail vehicle to transport them for the last few miles.

 

[montyburns56]

At Rockware Glass in Knottingley, West Yorkshire, in the 1970s sand was delivered by rail. To get it across the the A645 it was moved one wagon at a time by using a normal tractor running on its usual wheels whilst the wagon was of course still on rails.
The traffic was halted by a man stood in the road holding two red flags. I only wish I had taken a picture but at the time it all seemed very normal.

Wow, I would love to see picture of that! Also I've found this picture of a tractor shunter at Royston still in use in 1990.

Royston Shunter 160590 A

The Royston grain silo shunter on duty 16 May 1990.

flic.kr

 

[gg1]

I don't know about if it's ever been considered as a more permanent arrangement but I have seen road rail excavators hauling rail wagons at East Grinstead when the line was closed by a landslipView attachment 78832

Pretty sure they're purpose build RRV trailers, far to small to be regular rail wagons.

 

[talltim]

Now that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about as that is not only pulling a decent sized train, but at a decent speed as well. The excavator on top of the wagons only adds to oddness of what's going on though.

There is a type of excavator runs on the tops of the sides of the gondola, a bit like rails. It can then load/unload all the cars

This one is a standard excavator, seeing them climb in is fun

 

[rebmcr]

Happens a lot in the USA, see link to youtube

Many lines in the US are not even signalled (they rely on timetabled passing loops to keep trains separated), never mind protected by AWS/TPWS.

 

[pdeaves]

Wow, I would love to see picture of that! Also I've found this picture of a tractor shunter at Royston still in use in 1990.

Royston Shunter 160590 A

The Royston grain silo shunter on duty 16 May 1990.

flic.kr

I find something comical about the pile of concrete lashed to the nose!

 

[DarloRich]

I don't know about if it's ever been considered as a more permanent arrangement but I have seen road rail excavators hauling rail wagons at East Grinstead when the line was closed by a landslipView attachment 78832

They are specially made RRV trailers not wagons. They are much smaller and lighter than wagons. Not sure how many fully loaded ballast wagons an RRV is going to be able to pull and most importantly stop.

 

[mcmad]

This shows the unimog pulling seacow hoppers during the construction of the SAK line mentioned above.

Linky

 

[John Webb]

I don't know about pulling rail vehicles, but they were certainly pushed about the place in works and other places. The most unusual one I ever came across was around 1959 or 1960 in Teignmouth, on the harbour quay:

It was a Sentinel steam tractor from circa 1930, and was named "The Elephant". Note the large timbers each end for pushing rail vehicles about. 'The Teignmouth Quay Co" was done with beer bottle 'crown' caps nailed or screwed to the canopy!

I understand this has been preserved by an enthusiast in Holland.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

I don't know about pulling rail vehicles, but they were certainly pushed about the place in works and other places. The most unusual one I ever came across was around 1959 or 1960 in Teignmouth, on the harbour quay:
View attachment 78858
It was a Sentinel steam tractor from circa 1930, and was named "The Elephant". Note the large timbers each end for pushing rail vehicles about. 'The Teignmouth Quay Co" was done with beer bottle 'crown' caps nailed or screwed to the canopy!

I understand this has been preserved by an enthusiast in Holland.

That's one interpretation of a road-rail shunter. Something a bit more up-to-date:

I believe that this was on its way to Thrall, York. Taken in Southampton Eastern Docks. As it has air brake it's load would be limited by how much it could move, braking taking care of itself.
Pat

 

[Ploughman]

1000t in one claim

Redirect Notice

 

[pdeaves]

There was an interesting road-rail shunter at Long Marston: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pdeaves/3643519663/ Full buffing gear and eight solid tyred, flangeless wheels.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

There was an interesting road-rail shunter at Long Marston: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pdeaves/3643519663/ Full buffing gear and eight solid tyred, flangeless wheels.

There were 2. (And I've only just realised! Doh!)

Pat

 

[pdeaves]

There were 2. (And I've only just realised! Doh!)
View attachment 78870View attachment 78871
Pat

That's interesting. The wheel level appears to have been rebuilt between our two photos, of in mine it was partially disassembled for maintenance. (Your photo has axle box covers, etc. whereas mine doesn't, but then on mine it doesn't look to these inexpert eyes like they are necessary).