Valid routes for a Welwyn North - Hastings off-peak return?

[Skimpot flyer]

As per the thread title, I’m looking to find out if the above ticket would be valid via Brighton / Lewes, and - for the return portion - via Ashford International and St Pancras.
I really need to avoid the hassle of using the tube on the return leg, but would like to admire the sea views passing Cooden Beach on the outward trip, if permitted

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

As per the thread title, I’m looking to find out if the above ticket would be valid via Brighton / Lewes, and - for the return portion - via Ashford International and St Pancras.
I really need to avoid the hassle of using the tube on the return leg, but would like to admire the sea views passing Cooden Beach on the outward trip, if permitted

Whether or not the ticket is valid via HS1 depends on the route of the ticket - there are both route "✠ANY PERMITTED" and route "✠NOT VALID ON HS1" tickets available. Which do you hold?

If it is the former route then this is indeed valid via Brighton and/or Lewes on map LB ex-London, as well as via Ashford International and St Pancras on the way back on maps HS+CW to London.

If it is the latter route then, understandably, it is not permitted to use the ticket via HS1. However, you can obtain a change of route excess to the former route, for half the difference between the relevant fares. Beware that this is often less than the cost of the "onboard upgrade" that On-Board Managers on HS1 sometimes attempt to sell instead - insist on the correct change of route excess (which can be purchased at the ticket office in advance, or on-board the train without penalty). In the case of an undiscounted adult Off-Peak Return the difference in fare is £0.50 so the change of route excess would be £0.25.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I haven’t purchased the ticket as yet. But you have answered my question, as the Any Permitted one covers me for either route. Many thanks

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I haven’t purchased the ticket as yet. But you have answered my question, as the Any Permitted one covers me for either route. Many thanks

Indeed - I suppose for the sake of 50p it's probably not worth faffing around with excesses and potentially being charged the incorrect amount.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Whether or not the ticket is valid via HS1 depends on the route of the ticket - there are both route "✠ANY PERMITTED" and route "✠NOT VALID ON HS1" tickets available. Which do you hold?

If it is the former route then this is indeed valid via Brighton and/or Lewes on map LB ex-London, as well as via Ashford International and St Pancras on the way back on maps HS+CW to London.

That's interesting to know. I've travelled from a Great Northern station (Arlesey) to Hastings a few times in the past and I've always wondered if the "✠ANY PERMITTED" tickets are valid via Eastbourne/Lewes/Brighton alongside via HS1 and the main Hastings/South Eastern Main Line to Charing Cross. The route between Hastings and Brighton is one I've yet to travel and would like to do so. I'm planning a journey to Hastings one weekend in the summer, and the weekend I have in mind happens to be when Charing Cross is closed, so Southeastern services from Hastings are being terminated at Tonbridge. As such, travelling outbound via HS1 and back via Eastbourne/Lewes/Brighton would work as a nice alternative and allow me to 'tick off' that particular route.

Weirdly, when I searched the journey in NRE, it claimed that travelling via London Victoria and Tonbridge with Southeastern requires multiple tickets, whereas Webtis (GWR/TPE) and Trainline both show it as valid on a single ticket.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

That's interesting to know. I've travelled from a Great Northern station (Arlesey) to Hastings a few times in the past and I've always wondered if the "✠ANY PERMITTED" tickets are valid via Eastbourne/Lewes/Brighton alongside via HS1 and the main Hastings/South Eastern Main Line to Charing Cross. The route between Hastings and Brighton is one I've yet to travel and would like to do so. I'm planning a journey to Hastings one weekend in the summer, and the weekend I have in mind happens to be when Charing Cross is closed, so Southeastern services from Hastings are being terminated at Tonbridge. As such, travelling outbound via HS1 and back via Eastbourne/Lewes/Brighton would work as a nice alternative and allow me to 'tick off' that particular route.

Weirdly, when I searched the journey in NRE, it claimed that travelling via London Victoria and Tonbridge with Southeastern requires multiple tickets, whereas Webtis (GWR/TPE) and Trainline both show it as valid on a single ticket.

Yes, via Brighton and/or Lewes is a valid route. NRE isn't always correct about the validity of routes - it sometimes rejects valid routes and sometimes accepts invalid routes.

 

[some bloke]

NRE...sometimes accepts invalid routes.

Would it always be accurate to say that by displaying them as acceptable, it validates those otherwise invalid routes?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Interesting to note that anyone with a Railcard wishing to buy an off-peak return from Welwyn North to Brighton need not pay £30.30.
They could buy a return to Lewes or to Hastings for £27.40 and just finish (or start) short at Brighton!
Why pay more than you need to?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Would it always be accurate to say that by displaying them as acceptable, it validates those otherwise invalid routes?

This is entirely correct - a statement along these lines is in one of the first paragraphs of the webpage that details the Routeing Guide. By "invalid routes" I of course am really referring to routes that a human interpretation of the Routeing Guide does not appear to permit.

 

[JB_B]

Would it always be accurate to say that by displaying them as acceptable, it validates those otherwise invalid routes?

Yes, that's correct. And if you're only interested in one or two routes then that's all you need.

For a non-trivial journey there may be a myriad of potential routes so using NRE to test each one isn't very practical - it's like trying to work out the shape of a whale by looking through a microscope.

The only way to get an overview of available routes to understand and use the routeing guide - currently that's harder work than it should be.

I don't think the routeing guide should be binned - instead RDG could make it much more accessible by automating large chunks of the process. There's no reason not to automate the yellow pages look up by linking directly from the the routeing point calculator to the relevant maps. (I also doubt there's really a good reason for the routeing point calculator to be hidden behind a captcha.)

 

[yorkie]

Would it always be accurate to say that by displaying them as acceptable, it validates those otherwise invalid routes?

Arguably yes, but to be safe book the ticket in conjunction with the accompanying itinerary (any SilverRail powered website will offer the same routes as NRE; also some websites, e.g. Atos/Worldline WebTIS powered sites, will accept whatever itinerary is offered to it by NRE if you follow the purchase links) so that your booking confirmation email includes the itinerary you require, this is the best possible evidence of a contract.

 

[JB_B]

Interesting to note that anyone with a Railcard wishing to buy an off-peak return from Welwyn North to Brighton need not pay £30.30.
They could buy a return to Lewes or to Hastings for £27.40 and just finish (or start) short at Brighton!
Why pay more than you need to?

The same also works using West Coastway destinations (For route: + Any Permitted SVRs - with restriction 4J) - all the way from Portslade out as far as Bosham.

 

[some bloke]

I really need to avoid the hassle of using the tube on the return leg

You may already know this - to avoid the tube you could walk between King's Cross and St Pancras, changing at Gatwick to go via Lewes (or Brighton direct) if the times suit.