maxbarnish
Member
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 110
Split from 'Dawlish Issues'.
Last night I was trying to help someone I know get from Plymouth to Leeds when the last direct train was cancelled due to the well-known issues at Dawlish sea wall with bad weather/high tides.
There seemed to be a number of people in his situation and the last he told me was that the TM was looking into options for road transport/onward travel (could be the Manchester route which journey planners say is the only route offering trains to Leeds at the time he was arriving, but seemed more likely it was going to be by road) from Birmingham New Street for remaining stations to Leeds. He'd have told me if he didn't arrive - he won't have told me if he arrived OK - so he clearly arrived, whatever decision was taken on his routing. He didn't have to pay extra - he'd have let me know about that!
But I see a more general point here. He used National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner (NRE). I think this is a fairly common search tool, and one that 'normal users' - and I would still count myself in that category rather than expert (although I am learning a lot from being on here and now can use Real Time Trains and have a reasonable understanding of fares and routings thanks to all of you).
An original itinerary produced with a ticket in NRE is de facto valid I believe. When a train shows as cancelled in National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner, there is an alternative trains button to click. Having tried this button for the Dawlish situation, I am genuinely unsure if trains and routings generated by clicking the alternative trains button next to the cancelled train are to be considered valid.
If not, would it be possible and reasonable (not always the same thing!) for someone to be punished for following the route that NRE suggests as an alternative due to the cancellation? My approach when I am travelling is to note the NRE alternatives (if I have internet access) but then ask staff as well.
The alternatives suggested by NRE for the cancelled 17.25 Plymouth to Leeds last night were quite varied and 'interesting'. They are obviously geared toward getting someone to the destination by rail (as alternative ad hoc road transport won't be in the database), and late in the evening the options can be few.
One route it suggested was going via XC to Manchester and then a TPE train. [You advised the need to ask TM as going to Manchester was off route].
Another suggested alternative train on NRE was going to London via the 18.44 GWR from Plymouth to London Paddington, then crossing London and getting an LNER service.
The latter raises an interesting point in my mind.
'Line issues' on XC journey check said that travel with GWR was permitted (ticket acceptance) via 'any reasonable route'. Ideas of what is reasonable may differ! If NRE alternative train search suggested going via London, it is potentially not unreasonable that given GWR ticket acceptance, someone would have gone that way, i.e. gone to London Paddington on GWR. I am not sure if it happened - but the point is still interesting regardless.
Now, upon reaching London (ideally with a saved copy of the NRE alternative train recommendation in hand), would the traveller still be entitled to onward travel to Leeds? My preference would always be to stick as close to original route as possible unless there is a very specific alternative listed on the journey check page. Going far away from original route, even with ticket acceptance in place for the first leg, could make it harder to get help from staff.
If the traveller could then become stranded in London or have to pay for a new ticket, it raises questions about the appropriateness of having NRE alternative trains search. I genuinely don't know what would happen if someone had followed the NRE suggestions last night without double checking them.
Last night I was trying to help someone I know get from Plymouth to Leeds when the last direct train was cancelled due to the well-known issues at Dawlish sea wall with bad weather/high tides.
There seemed to be a number of people in his situation and the last he told me was that the TM was looking into options for road transport/onward travel (could be the Manchester route which journey planners say is the only route offering trains to Leeds at the time he was arriving, but seemed more likely it was going to be by road) from Birmingham New Street for remaining stations to Leeds. He'd have told me if he didn't arrive - he won't have told me if he arrived OK - so he clearly arrived, whatever decision was taken on his routing. He didn't have to pay extra - he'd have let me know about that!
But I see a more general point here. He used National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner (NRE). I think this is a fairly common search tool, and one that 'normal users' - and I would still count myself in that category rather than expert (although I am learning a lot from being on here and now can use Real Time Trains and have a reasonable understanding of fares and routings thanks to all of you).
An original itinerary produced with a ticket in NRE is de facto valid I believe. When a train shows as cancelled in National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner, there is an alternative trains button to click. Having tried this button for the Dawlish situation, I am genuinely unsure if trains and routings generated by clicking the alternative trains button next to the cancelled train are to be considered valid.
If not, would it be possible and reasonable (not always the same thing!) for someone to be punished for following the route that NRE suggests as an alternative due to the cancellation? My approach when I am travelling is to note the NRE alternatives (if I have internet access) but then ask staff as well.
The alternatives suggested by NRE for the cancelled 17.25 Plymouth to Leeds last night were quite varied and 'interesting'. They are obviously geared toward getting someone to the destination by rail (as alternative ad hoc road transport won't be in the database), and late in the evening the options can be few.
One route it suggested was going via XC to Manchester and then a TPE train. [You advised the need to ask TM as going to Manchester was off route].
Another suggested alternative train on NRE was going to London via the 18.44 GWR from Plymouth to London Paddington, then crossing London and getting an LNER service.
The latter raises an interesting point in my mind.
'Line issues' on XC journey check said that travel with GWR was permitted (ticket acceptance) via 'any reasonable route'. Ideas of what is reasonable may differ! If NRE alternative train search suggested going via London, it is potentially not unreasonable that given GWR ticket acceptance, someone would have gone that way, i.e. gone to London Paddington on GWR. I am not sure if it happened - but the point is still interesting regardless.
Now, upon reaching London (ideally with a saved copy of the NRE alternative train recommendation in hand), would the traveller still be entitled to onward travel to Leeds? My preference would always be to stick as close to original route as possible unless there is a very specific alternative listed on the journey check page. Going far away from original route, even with ticket acceptance in place for the first leg, could make it harder to get help from staff.
If the traveller could then become stranded in London or have to pay for a new ticket, it raises questions about the appropriateness of having NRE alternative trains search. I genuinely don't know what would happen if someone had followed the NRE suggestions last night without double checking them.
