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Validity of the outbound portion of this Network Card discounted off peak day return

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General Zod

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I will have a High Wycombe to Whitstable network card discounted off peak day return so obviously cannot travel before 10am. The route to be taken is via St Pancras . Would it be possible to start this journey at St. Panceas on the first valid weekday train ie the 1020 instead of catching the first post 10am train from HWY ? Could I possibly be penalised or my ticket rejected at the gates for a travel irregularity ?
 
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yorkie

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Two others else asked about the same issue in other thread swithin the past few days; see:



 

General Zod

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Thanks. hopefully the orther posters didn't encounter any problems. i will keep an eye on those threads.
 

kentrailman

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Thanks. hopefully the orther posters didn't encounter any problems. i will keep an eye on those threads.
I made my journey but no-one checked tickets anyway !

By the way, re st pancras, I regularly use Folkestone to Bristol tickets and they never work the barrier at st pancras despite being valid on journey planners. Always have to have manual "check".
 
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General Zod

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Just a quick update. The ticket was accepted by the ticket gates as St Pancras but there was no onboard manual ticket checck my the train manager so I can't confirm if it would have passed that 'test'.
 

redreni

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I find it highly plausible that a member of on-board staff would say this ticket can't be used that way (either because they read something into the Railcard restrictions that isn't there, or because they disbelieve the passenger when they say they started short, or a bit of both).

In my humble opinion, though, anyone who says this ticket can't be used at all on a train that departs the origin before 10am is wrong. It's uncontroversial that starting short is permitted. The 10am restriction applies to the use of the Railcard i.e. travelling on a discounted ticket. If the train departs the origin on the ticket at 9.40 and departs the station where you start short at 10am, the time you started travelling on the ticket is 10am.

I wouldn't recommend anyone goes out of their way to test this or to draw attention to the fact they're starting short in circumstances like this, though. I think it's completely legitimate and I reckon (though obviously can't be sure) that any serious dispute about this would ultimately be resolved in favour of the passenger, but the rail industry might perceive that if this interpretation became official and widely known then it would leave them vulnerable to people short-faring and then pretending they'd started short after 10am when challenged. It may be one of those things that's best left ambiguous and used circumspectly. If the TOCs perceive the rules don't favour them they may try to get them changed.

If anyone wants to split tickets (e.g. a non-discounted ticket to cover part of the journey before 10am and a discounted ticket to cover the remainder) then I think that's much more obviously legitimate and easier, if required, to demonstrate that you hadn't used the discounted ticket to travel before 10am. But again, there's no need to draw attention to it unnecessarily - the ticket inspector only needs to see the ticket you're using at the time.
 

kentrailman

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if this interpretation became official and widely known then it would leave them vulnerable to people short-faring and then pretending they'd started short after 10am when challenged.
But if one had a single non railcard ticket for the full journey before 10am how would this be viewed as short faring ?
 

redreni

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But if one had a single non railcard ticket for the full journey before 10am how would this be viewed as short faring ?
It wouldn't. Neither that nor simply starting short (e.g. making your own way to the station where you start short) is short-faring.

What I'm saying is if it were widely understood that starting short is allowed (which I'm not sure it is - widely understood, that is) then starting before 10am and then pretending to have started short for the purposes of a ticket inspection might become a temptation for some people.

I agree that being able to show a non-discounted ticket which was valid to get you to the station where you say you started short on the discounted ticket would be a good way of demonstrating to staff that you're not short faring. As, indeed, would a bus ticket or an Uber receipt showing how you reached the relevant station. But there's no requirement to have such evidence - nor could they be. You could have hitched a lift, for example.
 
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