Vegetation growing out of control?

[robert thomas]

This is neglect, looks awful and gives a poor, unprofessional image of the railway. At Neath Station this morning passengers were commenting on the untidy growth between the tracks.

This just shows how quickly it regrows. It looked the same this time last year then the whole lot was cut down and now it's back to the same level. It has also been sprayed by the weedkiller train in the last week.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes and only some plants grow like that. Maybe don't use "obvious" horticulture lore if you're not actually knowledgeable about horticulture.

Of course all plants grow but then up to a point. They more or less have a maximum height but for things like Budlea it is way to big to ignore, unlike say a daisy !.

But I am speaking as a gardener.

 

[railfan99]

Buddleia is very soft wood though, and I can cut down a fully grown bush in under 5 minutes with a small folding saw. It's finding somewhere to get rid of the branches and keeping it down once cut that's the problem I've not managed to solve satisfactorily yet.

Can't Network Rail (or you) turn it into mulch? You may not have the equipment but surely NR would.

 

[alxndr]

Can't Network Rail (or you) turn it into mulch? You may not have the equipment but surely NR would.

I am NR staff. I cut back vegetation that’s obstructing access for maintenance, but while I can carry tools to do that I can’t drag a mulcher up the track wherever I go. Proper vegetation clearance team do have the kit to do it though.

 

[Snow1964]

I am NR staff. I cut back vegetation that’s obstructing access for maintenance, but while I can carry tools to do that I can’t drag a mulcher up the track wherever I go. Proper vegetation clearance team do have the kit to do it though.

Perhaps should reverse this question, why are the vegetation clearance team, not keeping maintenance access clear as part of their duties.

Sounds like you have lower productivity because having to waste time sorting out someone else's money saving before you can start your work.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Perhaps should reverse this question, why are the vegetation clearance team, not keeping maintenance access clear as part of their duties.

Sounds like you have lower productivity because having to waste time sorting out someone else's money saving before you can start your work.

This. I fear it is a case of putting off the task in the hope someone else in another department or with another later budget has to do it.

As a gardener I see it as a regular task keeping weeds under control. A weed is ANY plant that is unwanted and can be something someone else actually wants/likes !. I find that if I pull weeds out regularly when small I do not need much equipment and do not accumulate much rubbish. I suspect I am over time generating much less rubbish to dispose of because I never let the weeds (unwanted plants) get so big. That is despite having to visit the task more often.

There are the weeds that never get very big but then there are also the weeds that do get very big - for example Buddleia. Buddleia is easily removed when its roots have not got a good hold in the ground (or brickwork) and at that stage the weed is small enough that it can be left to the side to die or easily added to one bag. It really seems to me that weeds getting out of control is damaging the railway infrastructure. What is the cost of repairing brickwork compared to the cost of regular weed control ?.

Weeding is a boring subject, it is not fun and costs money. But how much does the damage resulting from neglect cost further down the timeline ?.

 

[Starmill]

Perhaps should reverse this question, why are the vegetation clearance team, not keeping maintenance access clear as part of their duties.

Sounds like you have lower productivity because having to waste time sorting out someone else's money saving before you can start your work.

Because the dedicated teams are limited in numbers and focus on the areas where they're best utilised? By definition that's the work only they can do. Surely this is obvious?

What are you arguing for here? You can't clear every access point every week in May and June, you just can't.

This is neglect, looks awful and gives a poor, unprofessional image of the railway. At Neath Station this morning passengers were commenting on the untidy growth between the tracks.

Minor weeds that you think look untidy are pretty much a fact of life I'm afraid. Personally I think it's far more important to focus on the clearing of litter and dirt than weeds, as this is far more noticeable to the general public.

 

[Snow1964]

What are you arguing for here? You can't clear every access point every week in May and June, you just can't.

No one has been suggesting the vegetation is cleared weekly, just that it is periodically kept in check, if someone needs to come along with handsaw instead of loppers to use the access point, then left too long as anything of sawing size doesn't grow within few weeks/months.

Minor weeds that you think look untidy are pretty much a fact of life I'm afraid. Personally I think it's far more important to focus on the clearing of litter and dirt than weeds, as this is far more noticeable to the general public.

I would argue clearing litter, cleaning up dirt, and choosing to leave weeds makes a place look scruffy and uncared for.

 

[Starmill]

No one has been suggesting the vegetation is cleared weekly, just that it is periodically kept in check

Yes, but you're not listening. We have one of these threads every year for May and June because certain species of plants grow rapidly now and die back every year.

For what it's worth I certainly agree that the specialist teams do need more resources, because they have a lot of specialist skills, a lot of hardware and do some very time consuming work (to do it safely anyway). But that wouldn't make May amd June less "overgrown" in appearance.

I would argue clearing litter, cleaning up dirt, and choosing to leave weeds makes a place look scruffy and uncared for.

If you find weeds the same or more visually intrusive than fly tipped waste or plastec bottles and crisp packets, that's your call but I doubt it will be a widely held view. But regardless of that the weeds are very unlikely to be an environmental hazard by comparison with plastics.

 

[Belperpete]

It is all very well saying that weeds should be nipped in the bud before they get large, but any practical suggestions for how that might be achieved seem sadly lacking.

The days when the railway could afford a small army of men with the time to hand weed mile upon mile of trackside in addition to their other duties are long gone. Likewise the days when toxic chemicals could be sprayed liberally all over the place, and controlled burning was acceptable, are likewise long gone.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have Network Rail been granted special rights to ensure that Buddliea Davidii is always thriving in rail areas?

Yes, but you're not listening. We have one of these threads every year for May and June because certain species of plants grow rapidly now and die back every year.

Does anyone know which plant species was the cause of the structural collapse at Northwich railway station?

 

[alxndr]

No one has been suggesting the vegetation is cleared weekly, just that it is periodically kept in check, if someone needs to come along with handsaw instead of loppers to use the access point, then left too long as anything of sawing size doesn't grow within few weeks/months.

For clarity, I was mainly referring to cutting back vegetation around equipment that would typically only be visited every 3 months, not access points.

Also, my use of a saw is generally less that loppers wouldn’t be sufficient and more that it’s far easier to carry, and can be effective against big and small vegetation alike. Loppers are incredibly tedious against small vegetation but shears easily break if used for anything too large inadvertently. Most things could be dealt with using loppers or shears but I find a saw more practical.

 

[birchesgreen]

In a nostalgia rail group on Facebook someone posted a photo of a bridge with a Western crossing over (from 1974 i think) with a photo taken in the same position now. What was immediately noticable was how much vegetation there was on the bridge and rail structures now, none in 1974!

 

[Deepgreen]

Today I travelled from Dorking to Reading and back. I was pleasantly surprised to see that 'Jessie's Seat', or the 'Chilworth Chicken', has been trimmed neatly and has resumed its former shape, albeit discoloured by weedkiller. I had understood from a now-closed thread here that it was no longer to be maintained, so was surprised to see its condition. There have been several line blocks of late and the volunteers presumably took the opportunity to do some work to it.

On the matter of vegetation out of control, my train back from Reading was routed, unusually, from p14 rather than p5 and was scraping a wall of green on its way down to pass under the GWML!

 

[Western 52]

Looks like NR are establishing a new wild garden at Weston-super-Mare! This hasn't been cut back for ages.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looks like NR are establishing a new wild garden at Weston-super-Mare! This hasn't been cut back for ages.

What species are the talll plants with red flower heads?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That looking a lot like the National Trust's temporary "Sky Garden" on the old Castlefield Viaduct into Manchester.

 

[Recessio]

The Nine Elms viaduct, especially around Vauxhall, is horrendous for buddliea. What's even worse is that it is clearly propagating - so many buildings in about a one kilometre range either side have buddliea plants growing out of them.

The entire SWR area isn't great for it though, the Guildford New Line bridge over Woodbridge Road had some horrendous buddliea growth that was clearly well established into the brickwork - though credit to NR, they shut the road overnight and managed to clear a lot of it.

 

[Belperpete]

Travelling on the GCR today, I noticed their disused telegraph poles disappearing into the undergrowth, and it set me thinking. Back when railways had pole routes, the railway had to keep at least that side of the line clear of vegetation. Nowadays they just seem to concentrate on the 4ft, with the result that in many places the railway is becoming a green tunnel.

 

[Henffordd]

What species are the talll plants with red flower heads?

Valerian, I think.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Valerian, I think.

At home, I have both the red and the white varieties of that plant in the flower border section, neither of which has been planted by me since I moved into this new house four years ago, but some older properties nearby have copious amounts of it. One elderly lady resident of those properties tells everyone how much she likes them!!!

 

[stj]

Roads and footpaths are getting as bad,"No Mow May" does not help too.

 

[Belperpete]

At home, I have both the red and the white varieties of that plant in the flower border section, neither of which has been planted by me since I moved into this new house four years ago, but some older properties nearby have copious amounts of it. One elderly lady resident of those properties tells everyone how much she likes them!!!

Unfortunately it is worse than buddleia, if not as big. Spreads rapidly by seeding. Fairly easy to pull up when a young plant, but once it has established it needs digging out as the tops just pull off the base. And it finds its way into cracks in paving and walls, where the roots rapidly do damage.

I made the mistake of letting it grow as it does look nice. I regret that now big time, as I am still struggling to get rid of it.

 

[GardenRail]

There seems to be big variations in each area. The North West seems particularly bad.

Though it's not all bad news, back across at the other side of the hill, Sheffield is looking unusually good, as it did last year too. It's the retaining walls they need to get a grip of in Sheffield now.

One day, we'll wake up to the news that there's a Sheffield Tram in platform 8, because the wall gave up.

 

[londonmidland]

For those of you that use Twitter/X, there’s an interesting video here showing a drivers’ perspective of the lineside vegetation, with some interesting discussion in the comments.

 

[snowball]

For those of you that use Twitter/X, there’s an interesting video

You don't need to be a registered user to watch it.

 

[The exile]

Do continental railways suffer the same weed growth?

Just experienced several kilometres of track in a capital city where the double deck coaches were forcing their way through vegetation from top to bottom on both sides. This was Bucharest, mind you, from where we don’t really want to take an example of how to run a railway!

And of course once the bird nesting season begins your stopped from cutting anything until it's over.

Surely if vegetation were properly managed nothing should ever get to the size where birds can nest in it. That’s the whole point.

 

[mwmbwls]

Invasive non-native plants / RHS Gardening

Our gardens have been greatly enriched by the introduction of plants from abroad but a small number have proved highly invasive in the UK, threatening natural habitats and native species. By not allowing plants to escape from gardens and disposing of unwanted plants and weeds carefully...

www.rhs.org.uk

Can I commend the Royal Horticultural Society's Guidance on Foreign Invasive Species. There are a number of factors that impact on weed growth near railways. First they are linaer passages that in the days of steam required regular weed suppression by permanent way gangs to avoid line side fires. No more steam - reduced perceived risk and promised cost savings in the short term. In the post steam era, cost savings were made as the fire risk was diminished. In urban areas this situation was compounded by the robust nature of alien plants imported from countries with significant volcanic activity such as Japan. Bomb damage during the war had enabled alien species to escape from domestic gardens and provided a quasi post volcanic landscape into which plant species originating from countries such as Japan escaped.. Such species lack domestic insect predators. The introduction of alien predators is a generally ecologically risky area.

 

[Grumpy]

There was a suggestion that homeowners could get a similar kill of weeds, by pouring boiling water on them..

Works well if the water is saturated with salt. Much cheaper than bought products. Great for dealing with gaps in paving etc-but not where you want to grow something afterwards

 

[notverydeep]

It is worth asking what degree of vegetation control is economically rational from the rail infrastructure operators perspective and this probably gives a good indication of why our railway linesides look much less 'neat' compared to photographs from the steam age.

The benefits of vegetation management include reducing the likelihood of some disruptions, such as those caused by falling trees or low adhesion or by more indirect impacts such as speed restrictions where there is a chance of these. It also reduces the costs of other maintenance activities, for example if you preserve the drainage on ballast it will last longer. It avoids damage to structures (think buddleia growing out of viaducts) and lastly, it mitigates some hazards, such as collision with branches or critical safety signage being obstructed. A generally tidy appearance may be valued by potential passengers, which may in turn have a small impact on their willingness to travel and thus buy tickets (although I expect this marginal value is very small).

Set against this are the costs, like all track side activities, the staff used are highly regulated and expensively trained and need to use specialist equipment and highly regulated substances in addition to cheap, basic tools. Because almost every time they can work effectively, the railway cannot earn revenue, they are also highly unproductive and inefficient (in the sense that they will have quite a bit more paid time than actual task time) and must often be paid extra for working at unsocial hours. They are part of a function that necessarily has a high planning overhead to squeeze the necessary work into the available short and infrequent windows likely determined by the schedules of completely unrelated maintenance or engineering activities.

I would suggest that the factors are what bring us to 'revealed' preference of Network Rail: they have determined the most cost effective strategy is the minimum necessary ad-hoc reactive maintenance dealing with specific vegetation incidents that arise together with very infrequent 'blitz' style management, where basically everything is cut to ground level including any trees and shrubs using a fairly large team and some significant equipment - which once completed are left for the next decade or so. As a Welwyn Garden City to London commuter I can see a fair amount of this has taken place in the last few years, so I guess this happens every 10-20 years in any given priority location. I suspect that less is done on less busy and slower speed corridors. Incidentally, a downside of this strategy is that it is not liked by lineside residents as a noise barrier that has grown up over many years, suddenly gets removed.

I very much doubt we will ever see a return to a more intensive 'steam age' high staffing model of trackside maintenance. Lineside vegetation management remains a very labour intensive, low productivity task and people are very expensive. Incidentally, I used to have a lovely buddleia at the bottom of my garden (not a railway ), which was very good for summer butterflies, but it did not survive being repeatedly cut to a stump one of the children's grand parents against my recommendation...