Victoria to Gatwick with Travelcard on Oyster

[tannedfrog]

So I went from Victoria to Gatwick yesterday, returning today

I asked in the Victoria ticket office for a Boundary Zone 6 return to Gatwick.
He told me that to go it would be £5.30 and to come back it would be £7.30 ie two singles?! (Could I actually have bought a return? I thought it was possible)

Strange as I know I can buy a single from Gatwick to East Croydon for less than £7.30. He then argued with me and said that wasn't possible except FCC.

I was right - when I came back it cost £5.30 Gatwick to East Croydon. Any permitted.

The machine said something about it being valid on Gatwick Express "subject to routeing" but I didn't understand that so went on a Southern train that stopped at East Croydon.

The guard came round after East Croydon asking for tickets. I showed him my Oyster, told him it was a monthly 1-6, he said where did you get on, I said Gatwick and showed him my Gatwick to Croydon ticket.

He then told me I was wrong to not get off at East Croydon and touch in! But he would let me off this time!!

Crazy - I was not in the wrong at all was I? And presumably I could even have used that combination on the Gatwick Express providing it was going to pass through East Croydon?

 

[Mojo]

So I went from Victoria to Gatwick yesterday, returning today

I asked in the Victoria ticket office for a Boundary Zone 6 return to Gatwick.
He told me that to go it would be £5.30 and to come back it would be £7.30?!

Strange as I know I can buy a single from Gatwick to East Croydon for less than £7.30. He then argued with me and said that wasn't possible.

It is commonplace for journeys in the South East to have higher fares towards London (or lower fares from London depending how you read it). Checking Avantix, the fare from Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick Airport is £5.30, and the fare in reverse is £7.30; BUT you cannot buy a ticket TO Boundary Zone 6, only from it. So in a way he was correct, but wrong also, as such a ticket should not be sold.

I was right - when I came back it cost £5.30 Gatwick to East Croydon. Any permitted.

The machine said something about it being valid on Gatwick Express "subject to routeing" but I didn't understand that so went on a Southern train that stopped at East Croydon.

The guard came round after East Croydon asking for tickets. I showed him my Oyster, told him it was a monthly 1-6, he said where did you get on, I said Gatwick and showed him my Gatwick to Croydon ticket.

He then told me I was wrong to not get off at East Croydon and touch in! But he would let me off this time!!

Crazy - I was not in the wrong at all was I? And presumably I could even have used that combination on the Gatwick Express providing it was going to pass through East Croydon?

As a monthly Travelcard holder you can combine it with a single/return and the train does not have to stop.

The guard was in the wrong, you have to touch your card on the reader at the start of the journey. Your journey started at Gatwick Airport.

 

[yorkie]

The guard was wrong. You were perfectly valid. The fact he didn't charge you says it all!

"I will let you off this time" means "I am wrong but I don't like to admit it" basically!

And as for Gatwick Express, that's now the name of a service "operated by Southern" it is no longer a TOC, so I don't see how it wouldn't be valid!

 

[tannedfrog]

Thanks

Do all Gatwick Expresses pass through East Croydon and does it matter?

 

[yorkie]

If you split your ticket there, then the train would have to pass through a station where you change from one ticket to another ticket. It's difficult to envisage a train from Gatwick to London Victoria avoiding East Croydon, so you can ignore the issue in this case!

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks

Do all Gatwick Expresses pass through East Croydon and does it matter?

Yes they do. If they managed to avoid East Croydon then they certainly couldn't be called an express.

And there is no requirement to touch in or out within the zones covered by your stored travelcard season, unless you have an OEP set. Finally, is Gatwick to Purley cheaper? Because that would also have been valid alongside a zone 1-6 travelcard season.

 

[RJ]

It is commonplace for journeys in the South East to have higher fares towards London (or lower fares from London depending how you read it). Checking Avantix, the fare from Boundary Zone 6 to Gatwick Airport is £5.30, and the fare in reverse is £7.30; BUT you cannot buy a ticket TO Boundary Zone 6, only from it.

You can buy singles to Boundary Zone 6

 

[island]

Can we settle whether or not it is allowed to buy a ticket from somewhere to Boundary Zone X? It was going to be an issue for me on Sunday when I will be travelling from Gatwick Airport to London Bridge while holding a Z1-3 Travelcard (my outbound flight being from Stansted) but I got an Advance instead

 

[jon0844]

You can buy singles to Boundary Zone 6

How?

I had the exact same problem when I went to Gatwick a while ago, needing an extension from BZ6. I got the ticket there no problem, but coming back it needed to be a named station within the zones, Coulsdon South I think.

It makes the ticket the other way more expensive, which I think is rather bizarre given you're doing the same journey and are paying twice for a section of the route.

 

[RJ]

How?

I had the exact same problem when I went to Gatwick a while ago, needing an extension from BZ6. I got the ticket there no problem, but coming back it needed to be a named station within the zones, Coulsdon South I think.

It makes the ticket the other way more expensive, which I think is rather bizarre given you're doing the same journey and are paying twice for a section of the route.

You go to a ticket office and request to buy one, or from the conductor on GeX, I'm assuming they don't have Travelcard restrictions. Such tickets are popular with Freedom Pass holders and outboundary Travelcard holders starting from somewhere not on their normal line of route. The rule about a station being a valid substitute for Boundary Zones is probably because stations beyond a certain catchment don't have fares to or from the Boundary Zones or to prevent inconveniencing point to point season ticket holders.

Regarding paying twice, sometimes it works in your favour. I can name some situations where it's cheaper to buy from a station in Z6 than BZ6 or cheaper from BZ5 than BZ6 even. In some cases, it's much cheaper to buy from London Terminals than any of the Boundary Zones.

 

[t0ffeeman]

Suppose you can buy a CDR from BZ6 to Gatwick for the return date and chuck away the outward portion. It doesn't seem to be cheaper just more convenient.

 

[jon0844]

You go to a ticket office and request to buy one

I did that at Gatwick and was told no ticket existed, even after showing the one I'd used to get there. I didn't stick around to have a long argument, but if they won't sell them because they say they can't be done, then how do you make them issue one?

 

[penaltyfines]

I did that at Gatwick and was told no ticket existed, even after showing the one I'd used to get there. I didn't stick around to have a long argument, but if they won't sell them because they say they can't be done, then how do you make them issue one?

If you are 100% sure the ticket exists (check NRE ot Avantix) then you would fall under 'no ticket issuing facilities available' and board the train without a ticket.

You would be best having some evidence of them failing to sell you the ticket, but technically under PF/ticketing rules if must by a ticket if the facility is available - if they refuse, then they are not providing the facility to purchase a ticket.

 

[island]

NRE doesn't know boundary zone # exists. Avantix is happy to price the journey (although it may be cheaper, depending on which zone, to buy a ticket to the first station inside your Travelcard zones).

 

[RJ]

I did that at Gatwick and was told no ticket existed, even after showing the one I'd used to get there. I didn't stick around to have a long argument, but if they won't sell them because they say they can't be done, then how do you make them issue one?

It does exist, it's in my TIS and The Manual. On occasion you have do have to elaborate. It's happened with me before, someone with a Freedom Pass requested an extension Saver return in the evening peak. Despite her insisting she'd been buying it weekly for the last x years, I couldn't find it for looking from BZ6 or any Zone 6 station. Eventually she decided to let me see one of her previous tickets and it turned out it was a station in Zone 5 where the Saver extension was available from.
That wasn't what she requested from me which is why I couldn't find it.
I take no offence in being told things by customers, except by knowitall types with bad attitudes who expect you to know everything about the system off the top of your head! If they say such a ticket does not exist, I advise politely suggesting they input 0072 in the destination field then ask for a single.

 

[Mojo]

It has been said loads of times in the past that tickets to Boundary Zone are available for purchase but should not be sold

http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=m500Tf-fHIO1hAfhhsG-Cw

On the Manual it lists fares, as does Avantix, but all the instructions in the Manual, as far as I can see, only detail selling tickets from not to Boundary Zone, although does not say it's not allowed?

Have we made it up several years ago tickets are not for sale to BZ? A Railway Myth?!

 

[yorkie]

A while back I said tickets could only be sold from BZ6 (as this is what I had been told) and I was corrected by fgwoll1e.

It does seem utterly bizarre that they are in Avantix/The Manual if they are not supposed to be sold!!

 

[Mojo]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=472071&postcount=4 Hmm...

 

[RJ]

The only place I've seen it written is on here. Not seen anything official to suggest it's prohibited. A station can be used in place of a Boundary Zone because not all stations in the UK have a fare to/from the Boundary Zones.

 

[swt_passenger]

The only place I've seen it written is on here. Not seen anything official to suggest it's prohibited. A station can be used in place of a Boundary Zone because not all stations in the UK have a fare to/from the Boundary Zones.

I'm 99% certain that the last fares manual that was publicly available online, (NFM99 was it?) explained that tickets were not to be sold to a BZ from outside the zonal area.

Perhaps someone still has a copy of the appropriate section - I know it isn't in section L, that's the only bit I have a copy of...