Virgin trains to Brighton

[JamieFCC]

Does anyone know why when virgin handed the cross country franchise to arriva that they dropped the Brighton service. Kensington Olympia for the Olympics, Gatwick owned by Network Rail and an extremely busy station along with East Croydon and Brighton a massive seaside city. Redhill and Haywards Heath also very busy stations. Understandable why the Bournemouth train was kept serving big cities but to keep a Guildford service and not a Brighton train is unbelieveable, after Reading where they all split, Bournemouth and Brighton trains serve a number of different cities and towns and TWO AIRPORTS. Whilst the Guildford train serves Guildford only once past Reading??????

 

[MidnightFlyer]

They were ended in December 2008 after DfT ruling. Despite the business of the stations, XC trains were very quiet down there.

 

[ushawk]

Would be nice to have XC back to Brighton but it probably wont happen, with Brighton under an hour away from London, connections to most places can be made there.

 

[JamieFCC]

True, connections to Victoria, St pancras, City Thameslink, Luton and Bedford

 

[rf_ioliver]

Was always quite nice to sit on a comfortable train (47+coaches at the time) and make a connection at Reading. Time wise wasn't great but made a change from the 158 via Southampton and Bristol and certainly better than crossing London.

Ian

 

[mister-sparky]

it took so long though that was the problem. had to crawl along the slows through south london and round to olympia and reading. is so much quicker to just get a fast to london and change there. but yea would be nice if they came back. but they won't.

 

[ValleyLines142]

It would kind of win the object of running to Brighton as it is 'CrossCountry' after all. If it was CrossCountry realistically speaking they would serve Kent, East Anglia, all of Wales and not just Cardiff and Newport, Lancashire and Cumbria. I sometimes wonder whether 'CrossCountry' actually obtains that title. Don't get me wrong, the whole Plymouth to Edinburgh, Manchester to Bournemouth and Cardiff to Nottingham all via Birmingham is great!

Shame they were stopped from Brighton, saved time going through London and changing terminals. I suppose people can travel via Southampton or via Gatwick and Reading, but I still think they should have kept it running to Gatwick at least to hold another Airport link.

 

[Pumbaa]

I totally agree - the Brighton service was very useful at carting around loads of fresh air.

With the XC network the state it is at the moment, Brighton is pretty far down on the priority list. Brighton would be better served by the 4th semi-fast SN service anyway.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It would kind of win the object of running to Brighton as it is 'CrossCountry' after all. If it was CrossCountry realistically speaking they would serve Kent, East Anglia, all of Wales and not just Cardiff and Newport, Lancashire and Cumbria. I sometimes wonder whether 'CrossCountry' actually obtains that title. Don't get me wrong, the whole Plymouth to Edinburgh, Manchester to Bournemouth and Cardiff to Nottingham all via Birmingham is great!

Shame they were stopped from Brighton, saved time going through London and changing terminals. I suppose people can travel via Southampton or via Gatwick and Reading, but I still think they should have kept it running to Gatwick at least to hold another Airport link.

Firstly, CrossCountry do not serve any part of Lancashire or Cumbria anymore.

Secondly, it was shown up to 2008 that Gatwick or Brighton didn't warrant XC services by passenger number, so on what basis do you plan on justifying reconnecting Gatwick, except on the grounds that 'it's an airport'?

 

[Pumbaa]

They were ended in December 2008 after DfT ruling. Despite the business of the stations, XC trains were very quiet down there.

It was written into the franchise spec IIRC. Brighton crews also transferred to VWC at Euston (clearly the sensible option ) to help cover the staff base for VHF. Not surprisingly, most of them stuck two fingers up at the idea and went to Southern instead.
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Secondly, it was shown up to 2008 that Gatwick or Brighton didn't warrant XC services by passenger number, so on what basis do you plan on justifying reconnecting Gatwick, except on the grounds that 'it's an airport'?

Southend's now an airport - can we go there as well? Pretty please

 

[ValleyLines142]

Firstly, CrossCountry do not serve any part of Lancashire or Cumbria anymore.

Secondly, it was shown up to 2008 that Gatwick or Brighton didn't warrant XC services by passenger number, so on what basis do you plan on justifying reconnecting Gatwick, except on the grounds that 'it's an airport'?

No I know, those counties I listed are the places that CrossCountry don't serve.

I'm not saying Gatwick should be reconnected merely because 'it's an airport', but I just find it surprising how passenger numbers were so low. It has a link to quite a few places, such as Southampton, Portsmouth, Bognor Regis and Bedford.

 

[JamieFCC]

Yeah i only discovered the Brighton service when i was on it to Gatwick for my Barbados flight. And to be honest it looked pretty crowded to me.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yeah i only discovered the Brighton service when i was on it to Gatwick for my Barbados flight. And to be honest it looked pretty crowded to me.

A lot of the time it was a 220. One day that I went on it it was full and standing from Haywards Heath!
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And I must say, people say that passengers from Brighton travelling up north can make a 'simple change in London' but it's not actually that easy. Whereas Reading has an excellent CrossCountry service and if that was removed people could take the 25 minute commute into London and go out from there. Brighton double the distance from London than Reading is. Also, if typing in a journey from say Reading to Blackpool, most journey planners say via London and Manchester!

 

[JamieFCC]

On mine from Coventry to Gatwick all stops had lots of people getting on and off apart from Redhill it didnt have anyone,

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Whilst some Brighton services may have been busy, I would probably put that down to two things:
1) It being (high) summer;
2) It being full from East Croydon but with very poor loading north thereof.

 

[JamieFCC]

Tbh, having all traffic from Brighton, Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Redhill, Croydon and Kensington is just gonna cause miles more congestion in Central London. Shame that Network Rail have no common sense and are too busy on the Thameslink Programme.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Tbh, having all traffic from Brighton, Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Redhill, Croydon and Kensington is just gonna cause miles more congestion in Central London. Shame that Network Rail have no common sense and are too busy on the Thameslink Programme.

What else do you propose then? 4tph on the Brighton Main Line is Thameslink's only involvement Brighton-Croydon...

 

[ValleyLines142]

I personally think that the whole of London has way too much going on. I realise completely that its a capital city and transport is important, especially with the Olympics later this year, but some services are ridiculously frequent, unnecessarily frequent that is, and formed of like 12 coaches. Take the buses in London. The number 38 (from Clapton Pond to Victoria) runs every minute, having a Peak Vehicle Requirement (PVR) of 68. There is no need whatsoever!! But anyway this is digressing from the thread.

Brighton could suffice on 2tph I think.

 

[JamieFCC]

I think the Crossrail and Orbirail is taking it too far

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I personally think that the whole of London has way too much going on. I realise completely that its a capital city and transport is important, especially with the Olympics later this year, but some services are ridiculously frequent, unnecessarily frequent that is, and formed of like 12 coaches. Take the buses in London. The number 38 (from Clapton Pond to Victoria) runs every minute, having a Peak Vehicle Requirement (PVR) of 68. There is no need whatsoever!! But anyway this is digressing from the thread.

Brighton could suffice on 2tph I think.

You have no idea how busy Southern Region services are. Dare I say 8tph Brighton-London could be seen as too little, 90% of the ones I have been on in my life have been full and standing, in the summer it is atrocious.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Crossrail is a good suggestion, particularly to avoid having to lug yourselves across the Tube etc; but yes I agree with you Jamie, I have an awful feeling that it's going to go over the top. And it probably will.
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You have no idea how busy Southern Region services are. Dare I say 8tph Brighton-London could be seen as too little, 90% of the ones I have been on in my life have been full and standing, in the summer it is atrocious.

I agree with you on that, and it's good how both Southern and First Capital Connect have got things going on, but everywhere else I think is overdone.

 

[JamieFCC]

My experiences on First Capital Connects have been standing, sweating.
On the Great Northern route though, I think 8 cars is over the top.

 

[ValleyLines142]

My experiences on First Capital Connects have been standing, sweating.
On the Great Northern route though, I think 8 cars is over the top.

Yes, especially when there's NXEA running alongside too.

 

[JamieFCC]

I just think it would be a relief for XC/VT in the area because apart from the Gatwick Express, theres not really any High Speed in the Brighton Area.

 

[Pumbaa]

It doesn't need high speed or intercity - it needs capacity to London and places along the way.

 

[ValleyLines142]

True, although I have to admit, the Gatwick Express journey time is not much faster than that of the Southern stoppers! Find it hard to believe that CrossCountry services were low numbers, beggars belief!!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yes, especially when there's NXEA running alongside too.

?

FCC GN and NXEA don't meet at any point, except for Peterborough station and Cambridge-Ely! NXEA only operate 2-3tpd to Kings Lynn.

 

[ValleyLines142]

?

FCC GN and NXEA don't meet at any point, except for Peterborough station and Cambridge-Ely! NXEA only operate 2-3tpd to Kings Lynn.

That's what I mean, so I wonder why trains are formed of 8 coaches.

 

[Pumbaa]

On the Great Northern route though, I think 8 cars is over the top.

You think wrong. Well, at least the route operator, NR and DfT think you're wrong anyway.

I daresay (despite their shortcomings) they know more than you.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I just think it would be a relief for XC/VT in the area because apart from the Gatwick Express, theres not really any High Speed in the Brighton Area.

Except for the 4tph~ London-Brighton that are two stops only: Clapham Jn and East Croydon or Gatwick Airport and Haywards Heath...