[Visit] Oyster or Travelcard? Explanations for a Andante user

[Giugiaro]

Good Evening everyone and Happy New Year!

I'm planning on visiting London this year.

I won't be hanging around with a bag-pack or anything heavy. At most I'll have my photo-camera case with me and wearing casual clothes, just like going for a Sunday stroll. The idea is to look less tourist as possible to merge in the crowd and try to have a glimpse of living and working in London.

With flight and stay decided, it's time to think about what is the best way for me to travel around London.
The idea is travelling inside zones 1 - 2 for 7 days and I'll be hoping on and off several times a day, depending on how many places I want to visit and what I may decide to do on-the-go.

After consulting the TfL website, the Visitor Oyster card was the best option for me. The First time I've been in London I used a Travelcard, but I was on a school trip with other 82 students so maybe the experience I had with it may be irrelevant for what I'm going to do.

Since the Visitor Oyster card seems to work somewhat like our Andante card, there are a lot of things that I want to ask in order to evaluate to what extent I can apply my experience with the Andante when travelling with Oyster. So here it goes:

• Andante works with validations, which corresponds to Oyster's "touch in". It means that Andante is regulated by the zones you've payed and the time limit you're given to travel around. Since Oyster works in a touch in/touch out system, will I pay a journey for each time I touch out? Or is there a time limit to multiply touch in and out to travel for a single payment?
• Will I pay another fare if I change to another mode of transport? Or is it indifferent to start a journey in the Underground and change to a bus and do the same journey all on bus?
• Does an Oyster have an expiration date? Or can I buy one now and still use it some months later?
• What happens if I get accidentally out of zones 1 - 2? Can I get off the station and walk back, or do I need to catch another train to get back?
• A Visitor Oyster card can be used to enter some places in London or get discounts? Or is it just a mere travel card?
• What changes between a normal Oyster card and a Visitor Oyster Card?
• Is there a problem if I touch in more than once in the same validator?
• If there is a travel time, how can I control the time that is left for me to travel?
• I know I can use the Oyster card on the Underground, Overground, DLR, Tram Link, Bus and National Rail. What if I decide to use the Cycle Hire?

These are the question for now. Depending on the answers, I may put other questions. Also, if you want to ask me something, I can answer.

 

[wintonian]

I wouldn't buy the snazzy "Visitor Oyster card" as the card fee and any remaining balance(?) I believe isn't refundable, unlike the normal Oyster sold to the locals and anyone else who turns up at a ticket office and wants one. Plus there is the cost of postage and the week or two of waiting for it to arrive or not as the case may be. Just turn up at a ticket office and buy one when you get to London, hand it back when you go home and reclaim the deposit.

 

[ainsworth74]

You could get a Seven Day Travelcard for Zones 1-2 loaded onto an Oyster (as wintonian suggests just get one when you arrive) and that would cost £30.40 and would allow travel at any time on DLR, Tube, National Rail (but not Heathrow Express or Heathrow Connect services between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow or HS1), Buses (any zone not just 1-2) and London Overground within the stated zones. To be honest unless you're only doing one or two trips per day I think a Travelcard will probably be the cheapest option for you.

In that case you don't really need to worry too much about touching in and out as long as you're only travelling within the zones that the Travelcard is valid in. If you want to travel outside of those zones, then it's important to touch in/out so that it can correctly calculate the the Pay As You Go (PAYG) charge for your journey.

Onto the questions!

• Andante works with validations, which corresponds to Oyster's "touch in". It means that Andante is regulated by the zones you've payed and the time limit you're given to travel around. Since Oyster works in a touch in/touch out system, will I pay a journey for each time I touch out?

Basically yes that's how it work. There's a page here on touching in/out which I think will help.

• Will I pay another fare if I change to another mode of transport? Or is it indifferent to start a journey in the Underground and change to a bus and do the same journey all on bus?

If you change from Tube to National Rail (or vice versa) then even though you'll be touching in/out at the respective gate lines it should recognise you're continuing your journey and charge accordingly. This doesn't, however, apply with buses and it would just charge you for the Tube/National Rail and then the bus.

• Does an Oyster have an expiration date? Or can I buy one now and still use it some months later?

If it has one it's long I regularly go for months without using mine.

• What happens if I get accidentally out of zones 1 - 2? Can I get off the station and walk back, or do I need to catch another train to get back?

Nothing, just get the next train back. Though if you leave the zones entirely that could cause you trouble (as you could be liable for a Penalty Fare and could be charged a maximum fare by Oyster due to you exceeding the time limit for a journey).

• What changes between a normal Oyster card and a Visitor Oyster Card?

Nothing other than the things wintonian highlighted so I'd get a normal Oyster when you get here.

• Is there a problem if I touch in more than once in the same validator?

I'm not quite sure what you mean here? If you've touched in then in order to exit back through the gateline you'd need to touch out (which depending on the circumstance can cost you a maximum fare). I suppose if the gateline is open you could touch in and then touch in again but I'm not quite sure what that would do. You might find this page useful.

• If there is a travel time, how can I control the time that is left for me to travel?

Time limits apply when travelling on PAYG and can be found here. There is no way to increase them but they're all very generous anyway.

• I know I can use the Oyster card on the Underground, Overground, DLR, Tram Link, Bus and National Rail. What if I decide to use the Cycle Hire?

As far as I'm aware you cannot use it for Cycle Hire (better known over here as Boris Bikes ).

 

[wintonian]

and to answer the question you haven't really asked; the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) is treated as an extension of the tube, and if using the trams you need to touch in on the green validators I believe - personally I have never needed to use the Croydon tram link so for all I know you might have to hand it to the driver and sing Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious in the correct accent.

 

[MikeWh]

and to answer the question you haven't really asked; the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) is treated as an extension of the tube, and if using the trams you need to touch in on the green validators I believe - personalty I have never needed to use the Croydon tram link so for all I know you might have to hand it to the driver and sing Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious in the correct accent.

Yellow validators before boarding the tram, and they might have green labels explaining that they are for tram use. If you start singing to the driver he probably won't open his window so you couldn't hand it to him.

 

[Greenback]

The visitor oyster is a waste of time. As Wintonian has said, the deposit and any balance is definitely not refundable so I agree that it is better to get a 'normal' card. I also agree that a 7 day season for zones 1 and 2 is the best bet for your needs based on you making a few trips per day.

I don't know if there is a point when your card expires, what I do know is that I have gone 10 or 11 months without using my oyster, and it then worked fine.

 

[pendolino]

Yellow validators before boarding the tram, and they might have green labels explaining that they are for tram use. If you start singing to the driver he probably won't open his window so you couldn't hand it to him.

Perhaps worth pointing out (to a visitor from abroad) that when using Tramlink, it is only necessary to touch in before boarding. There's no requirement to touch out on alighting (except for when alighting at Wimbledon). Same applies to the buses.

I know I can use the Oyster card on the Underground, Overground, DLR, Tram Link, Bus and National Rail. What if I decide to use the Cycle Hire?

Cycle hire doesn't take Oyster. Bikes can be hired using a credit/debit card at the docking point, or if you are using it regularly, by signing up as member and getting a 'key' but I don't think membership is possible for a visitor from abroad as TfL require a UK billing address.

Oyster PAYG also gets you a 10% discount on the Thames Clippers - the water buses that run along the river between Westminster and Woolwich. A brilliant way to see London, and great fun especially east of Tower Bridge when the captain can open up the engines and get up a bit of speed.

 

[maniacmartin]

A point to note: Unlike normal Oyster cards, Visitor Oyster cards are pay as you go only, so you cannot load weekly Travelcards onto them.

 

[wintonian]

A point to note: Unlike normal Oyster cards, Visitor Oyster cards are pay as you go only, so you cannot load weekly Travelcards onto them.

So they truly are a way to fleece the unsuspecting foreign visitor not used to our ways.

Thankfully most of this sort of discriminatory deception has been outlawed over the years.

 

[Giugiaro]

Good Evening everyone!

I see. The Visitor Oyster works as a PAYG so I could travel with it almost the same way I do with the Andante, thought I could travel around for £2.80 each 100 minutes, if I touch out once the journey is closed and the fare is cashed out, which ruins the plan. Right?

Since I'll be resorting to transport several times a day, in both peak and off-peak times, on Tube, Overground, DLR, Bus and River, I may choose for a normal Oyster with a Travelcard bundled. It will work as a Monthly Pass, but only for 7 days.

Now, I want to travel on the London Tramlink, because of the Mind the Gap project. I need to feel the system to think better about how it's personification will be. Ivo helped me with this, but no one else sent me more feedback to make a better scheme.

If I recall from the Rail and Tube Services Map, Tramlink has its own fare zone, which would be helpful since the system is present far beyond zones 1 - 2. But there's a problem. Wimbledon District station is in Zone 3. Since Travelcards can be used in any zone on buses, I can just exit at East Putney and catch Bus 337 and Bus 93, get to Wimbledon and enter the Tram. Now, I need to pay its respective fair, right? Can I use the same Oyster to have the Travelcard and the Tram fare at the same time?


Also, when I meant touching in multiple times the Oyster in the same validator, I meant touching more than once over a yellow marker before going through a turnstile or entering the bus. I was told that doing this I would have incomplete journeys or charged more than a journey.
Touching more than once a card over the validator is common practice with the Andante. Because it's regulated by time, we can validate the card several times over the same validator before boarding a train that it won't consume more titles, since it's only confirming our current position and operator after the first validation, like the pink Oyster card reader. And more, each time we touch the validator, it shows how many usable titles remain and how much time is left for travelling with the current title.
The CP Porto cards, that share the same validators, start causing problems because each time we touched the card, a journey title was used and, therefore, removed.

 

[maniacmartin]

Good Evening everyone!

I see. The Visitor Oyster works as a PAYG so I could travel with it almost the same way I do with the Andante, thought I could travel around for £2.80 each 100 minutes, if I touch out once the journey is closed and the fare is cashed out, which ruins the plan. Right?

Pay as you go travel is charged per journey, not per block of time like many European cities. There is also a maximum journey time to prevent you tricking the system by making multiple journeys but only touching at the start of the first and end of the last one.

Is there a problem if I touch in more than once in the same validator?

If these touches are within a short time period, then the second touch won't affect anything. However if this is a gateline, and you enter the station, then exit through the same gateline without actually travelling anywhere. then you are likely to be charged for a journey.

 

[wintonian]

Why don't you have a trawl through Mike Wh's site, where there's a fair chance of some of your questions being answered, of course you may come back even more confused in which case the man himself can put you straight.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think that might be best. When I was first starting to learn about Oyster in detail I read through Mike's website (it's a good read actually, very well written) and it answered most of my question and cleared nearly everything up.

 

[pendolino]

If I recall from the Rail and Tube Services Map, Tramlink has its own fare zone, which would be helpful since the system is present far beyond zones 1 - 2. But there's a problem. Wimbledon District station is in Zone 3. Since Travelcards can be used in any zone on buses, I can just exit at East Putney and catch Bus 337 and Bus 93, get to Wimbledon and enter the Tram. Now, I need to pay its respective fair, right? Can I use the same Oyster to have the Travelcard and the Tram fare at the same time?

Oyster is valid on Tramlink. You can use a PAYG Oyster on Tramlink and it will charge you a flat fare (£1.35) regardless of how far you go, but you need to touch in on the Oyster reader on the Tram platform at the start of each journey (no need to touch out at the end of the journey).

Or you can use a Travelcard on an Oyster, but the Travelcard must be valid in zones 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or any combination of those. I don't think a 1-2 Travelcard on an Oyster will even let you through the barriers at Wimbledon (as Wimbledon is in Zone 3) if you arrive by bus unless you have some PAYG credit on the Oyster too.

If most of what you plan to do is in Zones 1-2, perhaps get a Travelcard for those but add some PAYG on the same Oyster (you can have a Travelcard and PAYG cash on the same Oyster card), then you can use Tramlink too. Or just get a Zones 1-3 Travelcard on the Oyster (it's £5.20 more for a 7 day Travelcard, which might be worth it if you want to get to Wimbledon and use the Tram more than a couple of times).

If you do use PAYG on Oyster to use the Tram at Wimbledon, you will need to touch in at the gateline/ticket barriers to get into the station, but from here the system doesn't know if you're using Tram or Underground or National Rail as all 3 are accessible from the same gateline. As there is no need to touch out on the Tram, the system could think it is an incomplete journey and charge you the maximum fare unless you also touch in on the Tramlink validator on the Tramlink platform. In short: touch in twice, once at the gateline, and again on the platform before boarding the Tram.

 

[John @ home]

You can use a PAYG Oyster on Tramlink and it will charge you a flat fare (£1.35) regardless of how far you go

This fare increased yesterday to £1.40.

Or just get a Zones 1-3 Travelcard on the Oyster (it's £5.20 more for a 7 day Travelcard, which might be worth it if you want to get to Wimbledon and use the Tram more than a couple of times).

An alternative approach would be to limit your Tramlink adventures to just one of the 7 days. There is a daily cap (a maximum daily charge) of £4.40 for all bus and Tram use.

 

[pendolino]

This fare increased yesterday to £1.40.

Yes, you're quite right. I just checked that on TfL, the Tramlink guide still says £1.35, obviously hasn't been updated yet. I forgot it probably went up for 2013.

 

[Giugiaro]

Thank you everyone! Because of your answers I came to a conclusion.

When I get to London, I'll buy an Oyster card with a Zone 1 - 3 Travelcard, this way I can travel on the Tramlink network and stretch myself along on the Underground, Overground and DLR, just for the fun of travelling around.

Now on to journey planning inside London and Food supply.

 

[LexyBoy]

Oyster is for most journeys very simple. The more you try to understand it, the more complex it becomes, as you will see if you read MikeWh's site!

Just to recap the very basics:

• With a Travelcard, you have unlimited travel in the zones covered. These are available for a week, a month or any period between a month and a year. You don't need a passport-sized photo to get a Travelcard (except One Day Travelcards)
• With Pay As You Go (PAYG), you pay for each journey, but the most you'll pay is the cost of a one-day Travelcard covering what you've used. So an Off-Peak Z1-2 Underground journey is charged at £2.10 for each journey, but if you travel four or more times in one day you'll only pay a total of £7 (after journey 4 further Z1-2 journeys are free).
• You can load a Travelcard and PAYG credit onto one Oyster card. Then if you make a journey not covered by the Travelcard, you'll automatically be charged for the part not covered (e.g. edge of zone 2 to Wimbledon).
• Rail, Underground and DLR: touch in and out at the stations you travel from and to.
• Buses: touch in on the bus. The PAYG charge is £1.40, valid on that bus only. If you only use buses (or trams) the cap is £4.40, so journey 4 costs £0.20 and it's free thereafter.
• Trams: touch in on the platform before boarding the tram. Your Oyster is then valid for 70 minutes, and you may transfer to another tram within this time (IIRC). Prices as for buses.

I think your plan of getting a Z1-3 Travelcard is good, as long as you plan to use the tram more than one day and/or travel outside of Zones 1-2.

 

[MikeWh]

Just to recap the very basics:

• With a Travelcard, you have unlimited travel in the zones covered. These are available for a week, a month or any period between a month and a year. You need a passport-sized photo to get a Travelcard (except One Day Travelcards) You don't need a photo to get a weekly travelcard on Oyster.
• With Pay As You Go (PAYG), you pay for each journey, but the most you'll pay is the cost of a one-day Travelcard covering what you've used. So an Off-Peak Z1-2 Underground journey is charged at £2.10 for each journey, but if you travel four or more times in one day you'll only pay a total of £7 (after journey 4 further Z1-2 journeys are free). The most you pay is the appropriate daily cap which is less than the respective one-day travelcard. Z1-2 off-peak travelcard now £7.30
• You can load a Travelcard and PAYG credit onto one Oyster card. Then if you make a journey not covered by the Travelcard, you'll automatically be charged for the part not covered (e.g. edge of zone 2 to Wimbledon).
• Rail, Underground and DLR: touch in and out at the stations you travel from and to.
• Buses: touch in on the bus. The PAYG charge is £1.40, valid on that bus only. If you only use buses (or trams) the cap is £4.40, so journey 4 costs £0.20 and it's free thereafter.
• Trams: touch in on the platform before boarding the tram. Your Oyster is then valid for 70 minutes, and you may transfer to another tram within this time (IIRC). Prices as for buses. Correct. There are also a few feeder buses within New Addington which are included in the tram price. Touch in on the tram won't deduct if you've already used one of those buses and touch in on the bus won't deduct if it's within 70 minutes of a tram touch in.

I think your plan of getting a Z1-3 Travelcard is good, as long as you plan to use the tram more than one day and/or travel outside of Zones 1-2.

Just a few minor corrections.

 

[LexyBoy]

Thanks Mike - didn't realise the change on photocard rules didn't apply to Oyster. I was aware of the other points but trying to keep things simple!

Another point for Guigiaro - if you plan to travel outside of the Oyster area (shown on TfL maps as a red dotted line, mostly the same as the edge of zone 6), be aware that you'll have to buy a paper ticket - if you show your travelcard and ask for a ticket from "Boundary Zone 3" to your destination it'll usually be cheaper than the ticket from e.g. Waterloo/Victoria etc.