Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora

[hst43102]

I can't help but notice that most operators, from the largest to the smallest independent, have now got at least a few Volvo B8RLEs with MCV Evora bodywork - many of these being with independents which have not previously operated heavyweight saloon vehicles. Is there any reason why these have been so popular, especially in the last year or so, and with independents in particular?

 

[dodecahedron67]

They qualify for some lightweight/small Euro 6 bus purchasing grant (I can’t remember the name of it), and are being offered about £20k cheaper than a diesel E200MMC iirc

 

[MCR247]

They might also have shorter delivery times than ADL and Wrightbus

 

[Fin447]

Better & Cheaper than an E200 MMC I'm told

 

[computerSaysNo]

are being offered about £20k cheaper than a diesel E200MMC iirc

Better & Cheaper than an E200 MMC

Which model of 200MMC? An 11.8 meter with 6.7L engine would cost significantly more than an 8.9 metre with 4.5L engine, I'd imagine.
I was going to comment "if you're comparing as like-for-like as possible" but even that isn't particularly close; the B8RLE chassis obviously has the roughly 8 litre engine and as far as I'm aware only comes with a 6-speed gearbox, chassis available in various lengths. Whereas the 200MMC in the various lengths up to 11.5m, as far as I'm aware only comes with a 4.5 litre engine with either the 4-speed or 6-speed gearbox? Except for in 11.8 meter length which is the 6.7L engine but then that is only available with the 4-speed gearbox.

So in short, thinking about the 200MMC in comparing it to the B8/Evora product, your options are either match gearbox but with a smaller engine on the MMC, or (roughly) march engine size but with a smaller gearbox on the MMC. So I guess in both those ways, the MMC is inferior to the B8/Evora, and yet according to this thread is still more expensive?

(Apologies for the rambling and for if any of this comes across as accusatory; I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything, I'm just very interested in the topic!)

 

[richw]

The Evora starts at £165000, the basic small e200mmc starts at £130000.
But you’re comparing apples and pears, the B8 Evora is a heavyweight bus compared to a E200mmc being lightweight. The b8 can destroy hilly areas without a struggle, I imagine for independents Volvo support is easy to access, there’s a Volvo truck and Bus in most areas, so never far away from them for tech support.

 

[37114]

The Evora starts at £165000, the basic small e200mmc starts at £130000.
But you’re comparing apples and pears, the B8 Evora is a heavyweight bus compared to a E200mmc being lightweight. The b8 can destroy hilly areas without a struggle, I imagine for independents Volvo support is easy to access, there’s a Volvo truck and Bus in most areas, so never far away from them for tech support.

Agree with the above, to add Purchase price is only 1 element, it is total ownership cost that needs looking at. As well as destroying hills I would imagine a B8 will destroy more fuel than an Enviro 200 as well and I recall reading that delaine as an example switched from Volvo to ADL because of the fuel consumption savings. Bearing in mind many previous ADL buyers have switched to the B8 I presume as you say being a heavyweight bus it has a longer lifespan so can be depreciated over a longer time.

 

[darloscott]

Depending on what kind of work you’re going to use them on, you might find you get significantly more uptime with a B8RLE over an E200…

 

[M803UYA]

Agree with the above, to add Purchase price is only 1 element, it is total ownership cost that needs looking at. As well as destroying hills I would imagine a B8 will destroy more fuel than an Enviro 200 as well and I recall reading that delaine as an example switched from Volvo to ADL because of the fuel consumption savings. Bearing in mind many previous ADL buyers have switched to the B8 I presume as you say being a heavyweight bus it has a longer lifespan so can be depreciated over a longer time.

What about the engine replacement cost? A Volvo B8 will have a more robust engine that is able to work interurban services between towns and villages with comparative ease, would be able to shift c60 passengers some distance without overly stressing the bodywork and the engine. A lightweight bus will be better on fuel consumption, but will have a smaller engine that is working at capacity. That'll stress the components and eventually lead to failure.

An operator I worked at found this with the Streetlite fleet we had. We were the first operator of the 'max' variant and we stupidly ended up with two batches (8 then 11 on the 2nd 14 plate batch). Of the first 8 they came late because the production line workers were diverted onto NBfL (Borismasters) - barely 8 weeks into the operation of those 8 there was a meeting and the outcome of it was a further order for 11. Of those 11, they were poorly built and we had a number of engine failures within their first 9 months of operation. Not an issue as Wrights 4 year bumper to bumper 'warranty' apparently took care of that. But beyond that, if you're replacing an engine annually which cannot cope with the vehicle it's in, or the work it's doing any savings you made on fuel consumption are more than wiped out over the life of the vehicle. With a Volvo B7/B8 you may have to replace the engine during the life of the vehicle. If you're unfortunate it's more than once. As opposed to each year.

So I'd be buying the Evora....

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Perhaps operators just realise MCV/Volvo offers a superior product(which they do) and that some operators have decided they won’t mind absorbing some of the costs associated with heavier vehicles..

 

[Cesarcollie]

The Evora starts at £165000, the basic small e200mmc starts at £130000.
But you’re comparing apples and pears, the B8 Evora is a heavyweight bus compared to a E200mmc being lightweight. The b8 can destroy hilly areas without a struggle, I imagine for independents Volvo support is easy to access, there’s a Volvo truck and Bus in most areas, so never far away from them for tech support.

Goodness. Those prices are a year or two out of date! you can add at least £50k to the small E200 price and at least £10-£15k to the B8 price (both excluding VAT).

 

[richw]

Goodness. Those prices are a year or two out of date! you can add at least £50k to the small E200 price and at least £10-£15k to the B8 price (both excluding VAT).

It was all I could come up with on google. I thought the e200mmc might be out of date as I found a dealer selling 2018 versions for £124995!!

 

[Voyager 2953]

It’s because the Evora is a cheaper and more robust option capable to doing a variety of work. It’s comfortable for passengers and drivers alike and perform reliably say in and day out. Over the lifetime of the vehicle you probably find you need to spend less on the Volvo than on the ADL.

The E200 is an awful bus, rattly, creaky, jerky and has all round bad build quality. It doesn’t provide a nice ride at all.

 

[MCR247]

Personally, I’ve always felt that whilst the shorter Enviro 200s left a lot to be desired, the longest versions were much better buses. They felt much better put together, had good engines and could handle hills with ease. This was pre MMC though, with the examples I’m thinking of being 13/63 reg

 

[computerSaysNo]

Personally, I’ve always felt that whilst the shorter Enviro 200s left a lot to be desired, the longest versions were much better buses. They felt much better put together, had good engines and could handle hills with ease. This was pre MMC though, with the examples I’m thinking of being 13/63 reg

I always thought of the long wheelbase E200s as underpowered and basically the poor man's E300? If I remember correctly there was a bit of crossover between the longest length E200 and shortest E300; if you wanted that length why else would you buy the 4.5 litre engine E200 instead of the 6.7 litre engine E300 if not to save money?
But maybe I'm wrong there; if the longer E200s weren't underpowered, and could handle hills, maybe they were fine. But in that case why would you buy an E300 in that length?

 

[CN04NRJ]

When I worked at Cardiff Bus, the E200 MMCs had engine failures within the first year - one example was on it's third engine within two years. Some have now been sold, and they've kept the classic E200s also ordered on 17 plates. I think the Voith gearbox was a factor, with the engines operating at high revs constantly.

 

[MCR247]

I always thought of the long wheelbase E200s as underpowered and basically the poor man's E300? If I remember correctly there was a bit of crossover between the longest length E200 and shortest E300; if you wanted that length why else would you buy the 4.5 litre engine E200 instead of the 6.7 litre engine E300 if not to save money?
But maybe I'm wrong there; if the longer E200s weren't underpowered, and could handle hills, maybe they were fine. But in that case why would you buy an E300 in that length?

The longer E200s used a bigger engine than the smaller ones. 6 cylinder instead of 4 I think

 

[Fin447]

The longer E200s used a bigger engine than the smaller ones. 6 cylinder instead of 4 I think

11.8m is 6 and 11.5m and under is 4 i believe

 

[computerSaysNo]

The longer E200s used a bigger engine than the smaller ones. 6 cylinder instead of 4 I think

11.8m is 6 and 11.5m and under is 4 i believe

That's only the MMC though isn't it?
I thought the E200 (classic) was always the 4.5L except a very small batch with the 6.7L and a very small batch which were bodied onto a MAN chassis.

 

[GusB]

Let's get back on topic, please.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

The Volvo B8RLE chassis found underneath the MCV Evora is the biggest bonus - not the bodywork.

Hypothetically I would really have been interested to see Volvo produce a lightweight chassis just to see if additional development by a large builder of bus and trucks could’ve made anything better than ADL & Wrights.

 

[37114]

Hypothetically I would really have been interested to see Volvo produce a lightweight chassis just to see if additional development by a large builder of bus and trucks could’ve made anything better than ADL & Wrights.

They did - The B6. It got trounced by the Dart and the Solo.

Volvo make a premium product but it is not lightweight; The road fleet I look after has Volvo tractor units as they are a good bit of kit but the majority of the rigid fleet 18t and under is made by DAF as Volvo openly admit don't really do products suitable below 17t because of weight becoming much more of a focus and engineering lightweight components doesn't warrant the work vs the potential sales.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

They did - The B6. It got trounced by the Dart and the Solo.

Volvo make a premium product but it is not lightweight; The road fleet I look after has Volvo tractor units as they are a good bit of kit but the majority of the rigid fleet 18t and under is made by DAF as Volvo openly admit don't really do products suitable below 17t because of weight becoming much more of a focus and engineering lightweight components doesn't warrant the work vs the potential sales.

That particular model came about during a time where heavyweight single deckers were the in thing with most operators, presumably at the time when the B6 competed with the integral Dennis Dart the trans is product was cheaper to buy.

Having driven a lesser weight Volvo Truck with a D5K engine there more than upto the job that a DAF truck can do, cost is what it currently boiled down to.

 

[mbonwick]

and a very small batch which were bodied onto a MAN chassis.

Does 90-something vehicles over 2 years count as very small? Certainly not a big seller, but not really low numbers either....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That particular model came about during a time where heavyweight single deckers were the in thing with most operators, presumably at the time when the B6 competed with the integral Dennis Dart the trans is product was cheaper to buy.

Having driven a lesser weight Volvo Truck with a D5K engine there more than upto the job that a DAF truck can do, cost is what it currently boiled down to.

The B6 failed because it competed with the Dennis Dart but was much less reliable. Stagecoach sold theirs prematurely, and think some Blazefield ones were also early disposals.

 

[JD2168]

They did - The B6. It got trounced by the Dart and the Solo.

Volvo make a premium product but it is not lightweight; The road fleet I look after has Volvo tractor units as they are a good bit of kit but the majority of the rigid fleet 18t and under is made by DAF as Volvo openly admit don't really do products suitable below 17t because of weight becoming much more of a focus and engineering lightweight components doesn't warrant the work vs the potential sales.

The Volvo B6, not very good. Struggled with hilly roads & after no time seemed knackered. Used a number of Truck parts that weren’t suitable. The earlier B6LE low floors were pretty poor with the B6BLE a slight improvement.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Does 90-something vehicles over 2 years count as very small? Certainly not a big seller, but not really low numbers either....

Wikipedia says over 6000 E200s were built in total, 90 out of 6000 is 1.5% so yes I'd say that was very small!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro200

 

[GusB]

The question posed in the opening post, in reference to the Volvo B8RLE/MCV Evora combination, was very specific:

Is there any reason why these have been so popular, especially in the last year or so, and with independents in particular?

Once again, please keep the discussion on-topic.

Thanks

 

[Mwanesh]

For me as a driver. Volvo slept on the job from 2010 onwards. Seems like they lost interest or did not push their chassis on the market. The B8 range has not really set the sales hoped for.