VT Confusion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
4,886
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
My wife and I travelled from London to Chester on Monday and returned yersterday. We used staff first class free tickets. On the northbound journey we were served food, but on the return we were told that free tickets did not entitle us to food. However, this was after we had ordered a breakfast muffin each, but were served a full english breakfast each! We assumed these were intended for other passengers (it turned out that they weren't) and asked for the muffins we had ordered. Just as these were about to be delivered to us, the ticket check took place and we were told we could not have the food on free tickets - four meals wasted! We were not really bothered as we had had a good breakfast earlier anyway, but it throws up the inconsistency of approach on the two journeys.

Also, I have never heard a stopping pattern described thus : "We will be calling at the following principal stations - Milton Keynes and Crewe". What on earth does this mean - there will be other, less important, stops not worth mentioning? More language mangling by the railways!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
65,455
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
That "principal stations" thing is part of the Voyager PIS, and I *think* it was because, in XC days, they weren't going to bother listing all of them as from Penzance to Inverness it's quite a lot.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
15,472
Location
Mold, Clwyd
That "principal stations" thing is part of the Voyager PIS, and I *think* it was because, in XC days, they weren't going to bother listing all of them as from Penzance to Inverness it's quite a lot.

But they also use "principal" stations when they are in fact the only stations.
I may be wrong but it's the same on Pendolinos I think.
Voyagers also persist in putting "Euston" on the front-end display, rather than "London Euston".
 

Howard70

Member
Joined
18 May 2016
Messages
15
not quite sure what you mean by "staff first class free tickets"? Do you mean staff ID pass & a family leisure pass or do you mean an actual ticket? If the former then my understanding is you can eat if travelling for leisure but not if travelling for business. I don't think the latter should have any restrictions, other than that full fare paying passengers would come first in the event of limited supplies. The free F&F tickets on West Coast are usually (always I thought) standard class
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
2,606
Location
Connah's Quay
Arriva Trains Wales have a PIS which misses out some of the stations they serve. Perhaps the Voyager people were preparing for something similar.
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
6,560
Location
Herts
First Class travel facilities holders may partake of complimentary tea,
coffee and soft drinks on West Coast services. However, regardless
of the type of staff travel facilities document held acceptance of
alcohol or complimentary food is not permitted.

From ATOC staff travel restrictions advisory.....
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
4,886
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
First Class travel facilities holders may partake of complimentary tea,
coffee and soft drinks on West Coast services. However, regardless
of the type of staff travel facilities document held acceptance of
alcohol or complimentary food is not permitted.

From ATOC staff travel restrictions advisory.....


I hadn't checked before we travelled and we weren't fussed about the freebies in any case, but it was the inconsistency that was odd (and the fact that they served food before even checking tickets in first - we could have been standard class ticket holders for all they knew!).
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
6,560
Location
Herts
I hadn't checked before we travelled and we weren't fussed about the freebies in any case, but it was the inconsistency that was odd (and the fact that they served food before even checking tickets in first - we could have been standard class ticket holders for all they knew!).

Fair enough - but it is a long standing "restriction" ......as a point though on ECML for £5 you can partake of the food offer , which is usually very good.

Odd that you cannot do the same on WCML - an ex EC manager told me they do not lose money on this deal.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
12,897
Location
Caerphilly
ATW announce "will call at the following principal stations" and then you have to listen to the long list of stations between Milford Haven and Manchester. After a time, I twigged something, there are some request stops when you reach West Wales and these were not announced.
 

headshot119

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2010
Messages
1,963
Location
Dubai
ATW announce "will call at the following principal stations" and then you have to listen to the long list of stations between Milford Haven and Manchester. After a time, I twigged something, there are some request stops when you reach West Wales and these were not announced.

Same on the North Wales Coast, which can be confusing as some of them don't stop at the request stops, and some of them do.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
65,455
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I was going to say "why annoy the customer by telling them they can't have it, why not simply charge for it"? It almost reminds me of the railway's almost-dogged "you must take this route" approach rather than respecting the route the passenger wishes to take and simply charging an appropriate fare for it.

Makes sense to do so - make a profit and make the customer happy.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
9,535
I know sometimes on the north WCML the smaller Cumbrian stations are ommitted from the verbal list while still appearing on PIS and the same with stops either side of Milton Keynes going South.
 

Hellfire

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2012
Messages
552
I hadn't checked before we travelled and we weren't fussed about the freebies in any case, but it was the inconsistency that was odd (and the fact that they served food before even checking tickets in first - we could have been standard class ticket holders for all they knew!).

They often serve food before checking tickets on VTWC. On my journeys from Preston to London a ticket check doesn't usually take place until we have cleared Warrington BQ by which time the catering staff have usually dispensed cereals and juice and taken orders for breakfast. On the way back the ticket check is usually started around watford Junction but, quite often the alcohol trolley has been round by then
 

ag51ruk

Member
Joined
29 Oct 2014
Messages
629
Staff travel holders have never been able to accept free food on Virgin West Coast - that restriction has been in the guide since VT started their complimentary on-board offer many years ago. It's your responsibility to check those restrictions before you travel, as there are also still some trains where staff travel facilities cannot be used. In theory, you could have been asked to purchase a First Class ticket (as that is the only way to get the breakfast) or be reported for a travel irregularity.

Having said that, the different policies between different TOCs are confusing - TPE have no policy so I have always assumed it was okay, VTWC and Cross Country don't allow any food to be accepted and VTEC and EMT allow you to pay (but only if you pay before eating).. and it is annoying to see food thrown away on VT rather than let pass holders accept it, which happens all the time (e.g. the toast on breakfast Pendolino which is already prepared so just goes in the bin after the run down the train).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Fair enough - but it is a long standing "restriction" ......as a point though on ECML for £5 you can partake of the food offer , which is usually very good.

Odd that you cannot do the same on WCML - an ex EC manager told me they do not lose money on this deal.

East Coast require you to buy a voucher from the shop before you take any food (presumably to stop pass holders trying to get away with eating in between ticket checks). The shop on a Pendolino is some distance from coach K so not that convenient (by the time you got back to coach K on a busy train from London, you would have missed at least part of the service) and the on board service staff in First have no way to accept payments.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
25,051
Location
Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
I hadn't checked before we travelled and we weren't fussed about the freebies in any case, but it was the inconsistency that was odd (and the fact that they served food before even checking tickets in first - we could have been standard class ticket holders for all they knew!).

Despite the ATOC rules it tends to be on the discretion of staff. I am told by those who benefit from free travel (<D<D<D<D) that sometimes they are offered food even when pointing out they aren't allowed it.

This simply isn't an issue for those of us paying to travel in cattle ;)
 
Last edited:

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
12,691
Location
No longer here
i was going to say "why annoy the customer by telling them they can't have it, why not simply charge for it"? It almost reminds me of the railway's almost-dogged "you must take this route" approach rather than respecting the route the passenger wishes to take and simply charging an appropriate fare for it.

Makes sense to do so - make a profit and make the customer happy.

+1. :)
 

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
Despite the ATOC rules it tends to be on the discretion of staff. I am told by those who benefit from free travel (<D<D<D<D) that sometimes they are offered food even when pointing out they aren't allowed it.

This simply isn't an issue for those of us paying to travel in cattle ;)

There's a good reason for always keeping your fellow railway staff travelling on your train happy - you never know when all hell is going to break loose and you'll want the PTS holder trackside to help or the BTP officer to make himself and his warrant card known.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
25,051
Location
Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
There's a good reason for always keeping your fellow railway staff travelling on your train happy - you never know when all hell is going to break loose and you'll want the PTS holder trackside to help or the BTP officer to make himself and his warrant card known.

I would happily assist - I have competency in tea drinking, tea making, ( I am working on coffee making but it is really technical) emailing, spreadsheets, chatting, going to meetings and eating biscuits ;)

Now where is my pass................
 

Llanigraham

On Moderation
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
5,138
Location
Powys
Despite the ATOC rules it tends to be on the discretion of staff. I am told by those who benefit from free travel (<D<D<D<D) that sometimes they are offered food even when pointing out they aren't allowed it.

This simply isn't an issue for those of us paying to travel in cattle ;)

Exactly what has happened to me when I have been "up-graded" to First.
I did have one Train Manager suggest that I shouldn't "extract the urine" by having the full breakfast, but toast and coffee was fine. Suited me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top