VTEC Middlesbrough - London route

[Bornin1980s]

I understand that Virgin Trains East Coast will run a direct service from Middlesbrough to London once the Hitachi 800s are on line. My question is, what route will it take from Middlesbrough to the ECML?

 

[Darandio]

I understand that Virgin Trains East Coast will run a direct service from Middlesbrough to London once the Hitachi 800s are on line. My question is, what route will it take from Middlesbrough to the ECML?

Can't see it being anything other than via Yarm.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I hope so. Yarm Viaduct needs more love.

 

[thenorthern]

As others have said the only likely route is via Yarm as its unlikely that they would run into Darlington and reverse which would add a large amount journey time.

The stopping pattern will be interesting as Thornaby will certainly be a stop but I can't see Eaglescliffe being a stop.

 

[Darandio]

The stopping pattern will be interesting as Thornaby will certainly be a stop but I can't see Eaglescliffe being a stop.

The original press releases stated Thornaby only.

 

[Tomnot27]

What stations will it call at south of York too. Will it become an extension of the York 2 hourly terminator

 

[thenorthern]

What stations will it call at south of York too. Will it become an extension of the York 2 hourly terminator

I think its 7 trains to London and 6 from London so it could be yes, competition from Middlesbrough to York for Transpennine Express will be interesting.

 

[pennine]

Can't see it being anything other than via Yarm.

May be out of date, but a publication I read said it would do a reverse manoeuvre at Darlington - I hope this is not true!

 

[Darandio]

May be out of date, but a publication I read said it would do a reverse manoeuvre at Darlington - I hope this is not true!

I'd be very surprised if it did, it's the addition of a conflicting move for no reason.

 

[Paul Duck]

The info I got from ORR website is Stopping pattern of
Middlesbrough-Thornaby-Northallerton-York-Peterborough-Kings Cross
Thornaby to Northallerton I'm sure is via Yarm and not Darlington.

Certainly will help spread out the York travellers from Middlesbrough and Thornaby. Shame its not stopping at Eaglescliffe. I know it would have been bad for Grand Central but as for ourselves in the ticket office at Eaglescliffe would have been great.
Be interesting also to see what time there last train is from York To Middlesbrough is on a Saturday evening. Will they dare go later than 2115?
(The last TP from York to Middlesbrough is due to be at 2115 from this Dec)

 

[pdeaves]

The info I got from ORR website is Stopping pattern of
Middlesbrough-Thornaby-Northallerton-York-Peterborough-Kings Cross
Thornaby to Northallerton I'm sure is via Yarm and not Darlington.

Undoubtedly. There would be even less sense in reversing at Darlington without calling there!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Brilliant, more than one per day?!!

 

[Darandio]

Brilliant, more than one per day?!!

One of the original press releases quoted the service as two hourly from May 2020. No idea if that is still the case.

 

[thenorthern]

Brilliant, more than one per day?!!

One of the original press releases quoted the service as two hourly from May 2020. No idea if that is still the case.

7 trains to London and 6 from London by the sounds of it, I know Bradford is about to get more trains as well.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

7 trains to London and 6 from London by the sounds of it, I know Bradford is about to get more trains as well.

Wonderful! I bet VTEC will steal some customers from Grand Central. GC are so inferior compared to VTEC, I mean their seats are still the 2002 FGW ones!

 

[rg177]

Wonderful! I bet VTEC will steal some customers from Grand Central. GC are so inferior compared to VTEC, I mean their seats are still the 2002 FGW ones!

Yet GC don't gouge passengers with daft fares nearly as much as Virgin (just you try booking anything reasonable from the North East to London that isn't at a highly unpopular hour) and there's currently a refurbishment program underway for their 180s.

I'd love to see them continue

 

[darloscott]

Judging by how full the Grand Central services are from the North East I am sure they'll continue to do just fine.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Judging by how full the Grand Central services are from the North East I am sure they'll continue to do just fine.

Ohh...not sure if im happy or sad!

 

[Darandio]

Ohh...not sure if im happy or sad!

I assume by this you wouldn't be disappointed to see Stagecoach put Grand Central out of business?

Up here, we'd like to keep as many direct services as possible thanks.

 

[D6975]

As others have said the only likely route is via Yarm as its unlikely that they would run into Darlington and reverse which would add a large amount journey time.

The stopping pattern will be interesting as Thornaby will certainly be a stop but I can't see Eaglescliffe being a stop.

It will probably be via Yarm, but via Darlington would actually be quicker due to the crippling speed restrictions on the Yarm Route.
York-Middlesbro' is 57 mins on a 185.
York-Darlo is 27 mins on a 91.
Darlo-Middlesbro' is 25 mins on an all shacks 142.
Even allowing for a 5 min turn round at Darlo, giving the same 57 mins journey time, it would be quicker because of the lack of stops between Darlo and Middlesbro'.

 

[43074]

Ohh...not sure if im happy or sad!

At the moment VTEC are at far more risk of going out of business than Grand Central, to extent that they are having to renegotiate their contract with the DfT. Unfortunately I think the DfT will accept their request as they can't afford for VTEC to become the 3rd ECML franchisee to fail, it would be (another) political disaster for the Department despite the fact it is becoming clear that Virgin/Stagecoach overbid in the first place.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

At the moment VTEC are at far more risk of going out of business than Grand Central, to extent that they are having to renegotiate their contract with the DfT. Unfortunately I think the DfT will accept their request as they can't afford for VTEC to become the 3rd ECML franchisee to fail, it would be (another) political disaster for the Department despite the fact it is becoming clear that Virgin/Stagecoach overbid in the first place.

Unfortunately? Do you...do you not like VTEC??!! :cry:

 

[thenorthern]

I think once the new/enhanced Virgin Trains East Coast services to Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Bradford and Huddersfield are introduced it will be the beginning of the end for Grand Central.

 

[Darandio]

Unfortunately? Do you...do you not like VTEC??!! :cry:

There really is nothing to like at the moment.

 

[43074]

Unfortunately? Do you...do you not like VTEC??!! :cry:

No, if they overbid for the franchise to start with they should pay the price for doing so. Admittedly some of the reasons for this are out of their control and clearly couldn't have been accurately predicted (terrorist outrages affecting leisure travel, uncertainty over Brexit etc. in the business community) but nevertheless it is becoming clear they were too ambitious about what they could achieve before the Azumas & new timetables were introduced in terms of growing passenger numbers to meet their revenue predictions.

I have no problem with VTEC really, I just wish they would tone their marketing down (e.g. less chatty language to give a more professional image, and did they really need a professional pianist to launch their final refurbished Mk4 set??).

 

[rg177]

VTEC have jacked up prices hugely on their routes, to the extent that you just can't get reasonable day trip fares to London.

I have a lot to like about them, such as the ticket office member at King's Cross who saved me £86 by overlooking me losing my ticket home and writing out a replacement.

But the company itself is a mess with reliability seemingly dropping like a stone.

 

[Suraggu]

When I was at VTEC one of the draft service plans from 2020 was three services an hour to Newcastle (two carrying onto Scotland) with a split/attach at Darlington for a Middlesbrough portion when required with the service pattern.

But with the problems on the London North Eastern infrastructure upgrades, delays on the Class 800/801 deliveries and VTEC aiming to renegotiate its franchise this could no doubt change.

 

[Starmill]

VTEC have made some incredibly unpopular changes since they took over. They have also been very late in delivering improvements such as refurbished rolling stock. There were a number of 'certainties that were not justified' (as Sir Chilcot would call them) in the original press release at the time of award and franchise launch.

 

[Chrism20]

VTEC have jacked up prices hugely on their routes, to the extent that you just can't get reasonable day trip fares to London.

Yep and going by what we have paid for accommodation for the two weekends we have planned in london between now and the end of the year terrorism doesn't seem to be affecting that.

Pre VTEC we could normally get 2x 1st advances for about £100 from Edinburgh as long as we went off peak. Now you are looking at £160 unless you travel on the 0655 south and the 0700 north most of the time.

So since VTEC have taken over it's went from about £200 return for two up to £320 for two.

That imo is where their leisure travel problems are. We used to go to London three times a year now what we used to spend only takes us twice.

 

[TBY-Paul]

When I was at VTEC one of the draft service plans from 2020 was three services an hour to Newcastle (two carrying onto Scotland) with a split/attach at Darlington for a Middlesbrough portion when required with the service pattern.

But with the problems on the London North Eastern infrastructure upgrades, delays on the Class 800/801 deliveries and VTEC aiming to renegotiate its franchise this could no doubt change.

I seam to remember talk of the Middlesbrough service being a split/attach at Darlington service. I think, the idea was that the Middlesbrough service wouldn't need anything larger than a 5 car set, and by splitting/attaching at Darlington it would reduce the need for an extra path on the ECML.