VTWC Cancellations Weekend Sat 8th/Sun 9th July

[Yankee01]

I've been a long time lurker from the USA and over here in the middle of a holiday right now. I really need to get to London from Manchester on Sunday, and the VTWC situation has me a bit nervous.

Right now I have seat reservations on a VTWC service Sunday morning, though are there any suggestions in case of mass cancellations?

I'm traveling on a 1st class BritRail pass so any reasonable or "unreasonable" routing would do to any London terminus.

 

[roversfan2001]

I've been a long time lurker from the USA and over here in the middle of a holiday right now. I really need to get to London from Manchester on Sunday, and the VTWC situation has me a bit nervous.

Right now I have seat reservations on a VTWC service Sunday morning, though are there any suggestions in case of mass cancellations?

I'm traveling on a 1st class BritRail pass so any reasonable or "unreasonable" routing would do to any London terminus.

It may be worth obtaining reservations from a ticket office for Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield on TPE then Sheffield to London St Pancras on EMT. Or for a better experience for a similar journey time, TPE from either Manchester Piccadilly or Victoria to Leeds then VTEC from Leeds to London Kings Cross. Both options will take about 3.5-4 hours, compared to just over 2 by going direct.

Edited to say that going via Leeds will be far better in terms of free food and drink than going via Sheffield, if you take that kind of thing into account.

 

[causton]

I've been a long time lurker from the USA and over here in the middle of a holiday right now. I really need to get to London from Manchester on Sunday, and the VTWC situation has me a bit nervous.

Right now I have seat reservations on a VTWC service Sunday morning, though are there any suggestions in case of mass cancellations?

I'm traveling on a 1st class BritRail pass so any reasonable or "unreasonable" routing would do to any London terminus.

Manchester to Leeds on Transpennine Express, and then Leeds to Kings Cross on Virgin East Coast (which is either the same, or better, (or worse if you hate leather seats) in first class than Virgin West Coast, depending on your viewpoint!)

 

[Yankee01]

Thanks for the replies. I'm staying right now near MAN so dropping by that ticket office is very convenient. I'll give that a shot as a backup just in case.

I was on a rather packed TPE service from GLC to MAN, but I had a seat and a place to store a bag, so it turned out okay for me. Not so much for those folks standing from Lancaster.

 

[Huntergreed]

Also - VT are expecting a normal service on Sunday, and even if one train is cancelled, they are likely to run allow you on any service!

 

[dk1]

Been told that the dispute has now been sorted. Probably too late to resolve all issues tomorrow if it's true but hey-ho.

 

[RJ21]

That's good if true, looking at the list for today my trip will be unaffected but should it continue my bookings for next week would be if the pattern repeated itself.

 

[dk1]

I notice that the replies have totally changed on Twitter this weekend. Been trawling through the tweets & very little if any mention of drivers not working rest days

 

[JamesP]

The reasons for cancellation being given at Euston yesterday were 'due to a member of train crew being unavailable'.

 

[The Prisoner]

Noticed that the last two London to Glasgow trains last night were terminated at Preston and Carlisle due to "staff shortages". People ended up waiting ages for buses and taxis, especially at Preston where they ran out apparently.

Wouldn't fancy a bus (or taxi) from Preston to Glasgow at 10pm on a Saturday night. One twitter user had tweeted Virgin to say they were in a taxi with five guys who were paralytic with the booze and one of them was chucking up in a bag.

You would have thought you would have got your last two trains of service through at all cost? God knows what time people got home.

Anyone know any more?

 

[dk1]

You would have thought you would have got your last two trains of service through at all cost? God knows what time people got home.

Anyone know any more?

But if they where the driving turns open then they get cancelled. No other driver when in dispute is going to help out in anyway shape or form to help the company out. Even a minutes enforced overtime will be refused by any driver in these circumstances.

 

[jayah]

Doesn't the whole railway rely on overtime, especially at the weekend?

Something that no TOC on its own seems up for dealing with - i.e. an industry wide change of approach is needed.

Instead of trying to make everything DOO I would be much happier if the DfT went after the working week instead.

Nobody should be agreeing 35hr or 34hr working weeks with paid breaks. It is simply becoming an arms race between the TOCs and each reduction in hours and increase in pay makes it less and less likely people will work beyond the contract.

37hrs minimum and no rights to refuse Sundays, Bank Holidays or anything else you don't fancy.

 

[driver_m]

Instead of trying to make everything DOO I would be much happier if the DfT went after the working week instead.

Nobody should be agreeing 35hr or 34hr working weeks with paid breaks. It is simply becoming an arms race between the TOCs and each reduction in hours and increase in pay makes it less and less likely people will work beyond the contract.

37hrs minimum and no rights to refuse Sundays, Bank Holidays or anything else you don't fancy.

Aw bless. Why don't you edit your comment and mention the chain gang or the whip while you're at it.

In all seriousness though, it's not about whether we don't 'fancy' working, there are long established rules on working practices which work well because you don't hear about them failing very often. Your comment shows an ignorance of how our contracts actually work, which require us to show willing to work that bit extra in disruption and similar.

 

[Carntyne]

Instead of trying to make everything DOO I would be much happier if the DfT went after the working week instead.

Nobody should be agreeing 35hr or 34hr working weeks with paid breaks. It is simply becoming an arms race between the TOCs and each reduction in hours and increase in pay makes it less and less likely people will work beyond the contract.

37hrs minimum and no rights to refuse Sundays, Bank Holidays or anything else you don't fancy.

It's worth remembering just about the whole railway runs on the goodwill of the staff. Folk every day work beyond their contract.

On the second point, no luck. I'm glad to have a TU there to guarantee good T&Cs, it's not a race to the bottom.

 

[CentralTrainer]

It's worth remembering just about the whole railway runs on the goodwill of the staff. Folk every day work beyond their contract.

On the second point, no luck. I'm glad to have a TU there to guarantee good T&Cs, it's not a race to the bottom.

Even back in the 1980s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX8RhMRbvf8

 

[jayah]

Aw bless. Why don't you edit your comment and mention the chain gang or the whip while you're at it.

In all seriousness though, it's not about whether we don't 'fancy' working, there are long established rules on working practices which work well because you don't hear about them failing very often. Your comment shows an ignorance of how our contracts actually work, which require us to show willing to work that bit extra in disruption and similar.

In many TOCs Sundays really are about whether crews fancy working or not. It is wrong, out of date and it needs reform at an industry level which requires DfT leadership.

An arms race of shorter working weeks simply means more and more turns are down to rest days and voluntary overtime while higher pay makes it less and less likely there will be volunteers.

It will get worse and worse until this is addressed.

 

[driver_m]

In many TOCs Sundays really are about whether crews fancy working or not. It is wrong, out of date and it needs reform at an industry level which requires DfT leadership.

An arms race of shorter working weeks simply means more and more turns are down to rest days and voluntary overtime while higher pay makes it less and less likely there will be volunteers.

It will get worse and worse until this is addressed.

You are completely wrong but hey-ho. The onus is on me to get rid of any Sunday i don't want to work. If no one covers it, I work it. Simple as. Plus many TOCs now have Sundays in the working week. Even at those few TOCs where they could do a 'bbq sunday' there's usually enough grabbers to work those Sundays.

Companies need to employ the correct number of staff. It is really as simple as that. Keep relying on people to do overtime and you get trouble. This arms race that your on about doesn't exist.

 

[TEW]

An arms race of shorter working weeks simply means more and more turns are down to rest days and voluntary overtime while higher pay makes it less and less likely there will be volunteers.

It will get worse and worse until this is addressed.

No it doesn't. It just needs the TOC to employ more drivers. If you're agreeing a reduction in the working week for your employees, to cover the same amount of work you will logically need more employees. If a TOC agrees in a reduction of the working week but doesn't then employ extra staff to cover for that, they only have themselves to blame.

 

[bramling]

You are completely wrong but hey-ho. The onus is on me to get rid of any Sunday i don't want to work. If no one covers it, I work it. Simple as. Plus many TOCs now have Sundays in the working week. Even at those few TOCs where they could do a 'bbq sunday' there's usually enough grabbers to work those Sundays.

Companies need to employ the correct number of staff. It is really as simple as that. Keep relying on people to do overtime and you get trouble. This arms race that your on about doesn't exist.

Even on London Underground, which doesn't do overtime except to cover late running or bank holiday working, weekend coverage is still poor. For a start schedules are compiled to minimise the number of weekend duties, then once you start getting rest-day moves to weekdays, domestic leave and most of all sickness, things are at the point when duties are uncovered and trains cancelled. Soon those who are at work get fed up with coming in to rubbish work, so the downward spiral continues. Even with the best management these things still occur.

I've seen and worked with various different ways of resourcing weekends, and have come to the conclusion it doesn't really matter how things are done, people just don't want to work weekends.

Paying a premium in whatever form does help get people in, but it still leaves the door open to things being volatile during periods where people particularly want to be off - summer, good weather, major football fixtures etc.

 

[Carlisle]

No it doesn't. It just needs the TOC to employ more drivers. If you're agreeing a reduction in the working week for your employees, to cover the same amount of work you will logically need more employees. If a TOC agrees in a reduction of the working week but doesn't then employ extra staff to cover for that, they only have themselves to blame.

You don't really offer any suggestion as to where the extra cash for all this is supposed to come from though, are you willing to cut back on staff/ wages and services in other less frontline roles as long as the drivers are kept on side?

 

[Llanigraham]

And it isn't just the TOC's.
The signalling grades work to the same "rules", so there would be more costs if our contracts were altered.

 

[TEW]

You don't really offer any suggestion as to where the extra cash for all this is supposed to come from though, are you willing to cut back on staff/ wages and services in other less frontline roles as long as the drivers are kept on side?

I wasn't making any suggestion that hours should be cut. It's not my problem, if companies are happy to agree a reduction in the working week without a drop in the pay, then go ahead. But the same company cannot then complain if they fail to recruit to cover for the now uncovered work. I was simply refuting the suggestion by another poster that a reduction in the working week is bad because it means an increase in the reliance on overtime. In practice it may do, but it shouldn't.