VTWC Mk3 set coach lettering

[spookywestie]

Hi all,
I am currently working on doing a detailed VTWC Mk3 set in 00 gauge, I've been doing a little research and devised this order of coach lettering, would anyone be able to confirm it is correct? I'm not 100% sure which was the TSD (disabled coach). I'm setting it in around 2000-2002.

B (TSO) C (TSO) D (TSO) E (TSO) F (TSD) H (RFM) K (TFO) L (TFO)

Thanks in advance. : )

 

[hexagon789]

Hi all,
I am currently working on doing a detailed VTWC Mk3 set in 00 gauge, I've been doing a little research and devised this order of coach lettering, would anyone be able to confirm it is correct? I'm not 100% sure which was the TSD (disabled coach). I'm setting it in around 2000-2002.

B (TSO) C (TSO) D (TSO) E (TSO) F (TSD) H (RFM) K (TFO) L (TFO)

Thanks in advance. : )

Hello there, for the Virgin West Coast Mk3 sets there was a good deal of variance in the formations. Not all had a Disabled coach, there were only 9 Tourist Standard Open Disabled (TSOD) - 70 Standard, One Disabled toilet, one standard toilet, 2 wheelchairs; other sets had one of the 23 Tourist Standard Open Wheelchairs (TSOW), same as the TSOD but with 2 Standard toilets no accessible one. So some sets had no "official" wheelchair accommodation, others had lots - I've a record of a set with 3 TSOD out of 5 Standard Class vehicles. There was also one First Open with a Disabled toilets.

Generally sets were:
DVT-FO-FO-RFM-TSOD/W-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-LOCO

With some sets formed with 3 First Opens and only 4 Standards, others having 3 First and 5 Standards. The Brake First Opens (BFO) were generally treated as First Opens but always formed with the Brake van coupled to the DVT.

Coach lettering wise:
DVT - unlettered
FO - K
FO - J
FO - (if present) H
RFM - G
TSO (Disabled or Wheelchair, most common location) - F
TSO - E
TSO - D
TSO - C
TSO - (if present) B
LOCO

Hope that helps

I do have a full spreadsheet record of the VTWC rakes for 2002/3 that I can e-mail or private message you if you like, but it only contains vehicle numbers not individual coach types so you would need something along the lines of a Platform 5 Coaching stock book of the period to discern vehicle types.

 

[spookywestie]

Hello there, for the Virgin West Coast Mk3 sets there was a good deal of variance in the formations. Not all had a Disabled coach, there were only 9 Tourist Standard Open Disabled (TSOD) - 70 Standard, One Disabled toilet, one standard toilet, 2 wheelchairs; other sets had one of the 23 Tourist Standard Open Wheelchairs (TSOW), same as the TSOD but with 2 Standard toilets no accessible one. So some sets had no "official" wheelchair accommodation, others had lots - I've a record of a set with 3 TSOD out of 5 Standard Class vehicles. There was also one First Open with a Disabled toilets.

Generally sets were:
DVT-FO-FO-RFM-TSOD/W-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-LOCO

With some sets formed with 3 First Opens and only 4 Standards, others having 3 First and 5 Standards. The Brake First Opens (BFO) were generally treated as First Opens but always formed with the Brake van coupled to the DVT.

Coach lettering wise:
DVT - unlettered
FO - K
FO - J
FO - (if present) H
RFM - G
TSO (Disabled or Wheelchair, most common location) - F
TSO - E
TSO - D
TSO - C
TSO - (if present) B
LOCO

Hope that helps

I do have a full spreadsheet record of the VTWC rakes for 2002/3 that I can e-mail or private message you if you like, but it only contains vehicle numbers not individual coach types so you would need something along the lines of a Platform 5 Coaching stock book of the period to discern vehicle types.

Thank you very much for the information, it certainly answers my question!
If you could message me with that spreadsheet it would be excellent, that way I can built up an accurate set. I have a P5 coaching stock book from 2003 somewhere and a rough knowledge of all the different Mk3a types.

 

[43096]

Hello there, for the Virgin West Coast Mk3 sets there was a good deal of variance in the formations. Not all had a Disabled coach, there were only 9 Tourist Standard Open Disabled (TSOD) - 70 Standard, One Disabled toilet, one standard toilet, 2 wheelchairs; other sets had one of the 23 Tourist Standard Open Wheelchairs (TSOW), same as the TSOD but with 2 Standard toilets no accessible one. So some sets had no "official" wheelchair accommodation, others had lots - I've a record of a set with 3 TSOD out of 5 Standard Class vehicles. There was also one First Open with a Disabled toilets.

Generally sets were:
DVT-FO-FO-RFM-TSOD/W-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-LOCO

With some sets formed with 3 First Opens and only 4 Standards, others having 3 First and 5 Standards. The Brake First Opens (BFO) were generally treated as First Opens but always formed with the Brake van coupled to the DVT.

Coach lettering wise:
DVT - unlettered
FO - K
FO - J
FO - (if present) H
RFM - G
TSO (Disabled or Wheelchair, most common location) - F
TSO - E
TSO - D
TSO - C
TSO - (if present) B
LOCO

Hope that helps

I do have a full spreadsheet record of the VTWC rakes for 2002/3 that I can e-mail or private message you if you like, but it only contains vehicle numbers not individual coach types so you would need something along the lines of a Platform 5 Coaching stock book of the period to discern vehicle types.

Excellent - thank you for the explanation of the TSOD/TSOW difference. Is there any chance you could post a list of the 9 TSODs and 23 TSOWs?

 

[hexagon789]

Excellent - thank you for the explanation of the TSOD/TSOW difference. Is there any chance you could post a list of the 9 TSODs and 23 TSOWs?

Yes of course, I can give you the full number series for all the Mk3s of you like, I'll dig my books out after I've had my dinner.

 

[hexagon789]

DVT - Mk3B. T4 bogies. ETH 5X. Derby 1988. 45.18 tonnes. Disc-braked. 82101-82152.

FO - Mk3A. 48 First; 2 toilets (except 11011 - 48 First; 1 standard and one disabled toilet). BT10 bogies. ETH 6X. Derby 1975-76. 34.3 tonnes. 11005-11060.

FO - Mk3B. 48 First; 2 toilets. BT10 bogies. ETH 6X. Derby 1985. 36.5 tonnes. 11064-11101 (11083-101 fitted with payphone).

TSO - Mk3A. 76 Standard; 2 toilets (except TSOW - 70 Standard; 2 toilets, 2 wheelchairs (12024/036/042/050/054/059/061/085-087/101/103/108-109/128/144/155/160/168-172) and TSOD - 70 Standard; 1 standard toilet, 1 disabled toilet; 2 wheelchairs (12033/047/088/100/112/122/140/142/161). BT10 bogies (except 12140 - T4 bogies). ETH 6X. Derby 1975-77. 34.3 tonnes. 12004-12172.

RFM - Mk3A. 18 First plus two sears for staff use (except Anglia Railways vehicles 10203/214/216/223/228/241/247 which all seat 24 First). BT10 bogies. Payphone fitted, catering staff-to-shore telephone fitted. ETH 14X. Derby 1977; 1975-76 and 1979. 39.8 tonnes. 10200-10260.

BFO - Mk3B. Fitted with hydraulic handbrake. 36 First; 1 toilet (except 17175 - 35 First; 1 toilet). BT10 bogies. ETH 5X. Derby 1986. 35.81 tonnes. 17173-17175.

So in summary VTWC in 2003 had:
52 Mk3B DVTs
35 Mk3A FOs
38 Mk3B FOs
132 Mk3a TSO
23 Mk3a TSOW
9 Mk3a TSOD
50 Mk3a RFM
3 Mk3B BFO

Hope that is of some use ☺

 

[43096]

Hope that is of some use ☺

Yes - much appreciated.

I hadn't appreciated the differences between TSOW and TSOD vehicles, nor how few TSODs there were. Interesting to note that GWR have got three TSODs in their sleeper fleet, and that the FOD (11011), one TSOD (12047) and one TSOW (12087) have been preserved.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes - much appreciated.

I hadn't appreciated the differences between TSOW and TSOD vehicles, nor how few TSODs there were. Interesting to note that GWR have got three TSODs in their sleeper fleet, and that the FOD (11011), one TSOD (12047) and one TSOW (12087) have been preserved.

I hadn't noticed that about GWR's Mk3 TSODs, interesting to see how they remain the same basic vehicle type as they were in VTWC days but now with a refurbished 65-seat layout.

 

[muddy water]

Hello there, for the Virgin West Coast Mk3 sets there was a good deal of variance in the formations. Not all had a Disabled coach, there were only 9 Tourist Standard Open Disabled (TSOD) - 70 Standard, One Disabled toilet, one standard toilet, 2 wheelchairs; other sets had one of the 23 Tourist Standard Open Wheelchairs (TSOW), same as the TSOD but with 2 Standard toilets no accessible one. So some sets had no "official" wheelchair accommodation, others had lots - I've a record of a set with 3 TSOD out of 5 Standard Class vehicles. There was also one First Open with a Disabled toilets.

Generally sets were:
DVT-FO-FO-RFM-TSOD/W-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-LOCO

With some sets formed with 3 First Opens and only 4 Standards, others having 3 First and 5 Standards. The Brake First Opens (BFO) were generally treated as First Opens but always formed with the Brake van coupled to the DVT.

Coach lettering wise:
DVT - unlettered
FO - K
FO - J
FO - (if present) H
RFM - G
TSO (Disabled or Wheelchair, most common location) - F
TSO - E
TSO - D
TSO - C
TSO - (if present) B
LOCO

Hope that helps

I do have a full spreadsheet record of the VTWC rakes for 2002/3 that I can e-mail or private message you if you like, but it only contains vehicle numbers not individual coach types so you would need something along the lines of a Platform 5 Coaching stock book of the period to discern vehicle types.

Hi it would be great to have access to this spread sheet, as I am trying to renumber some coaches and want authentic rakes for early 2000s. You can private message me or post it on this thread for others. Now that the abrail site has gone, it is hard to find this information Thanks

 

[spookywestie]

I will send you the same spreadsheet that hexagon789 sent me. Hopefully they don't mind!

 

[muddy water]

I will send you the same spreadsheet that hexagon789 sent me. Hopefully they don't mind!

That would be great! Now to get the transfers!

 

[hexagon789]

Hi it would be great to have access to this spread sheet, as I am trying to renumber some coaches and want authentic rakes for early 2000s. You can private message me or post it on this thread for others. Now that the abrail site has gone, it is hard to find this information Thanks

More than happy to do either, but as Westie has been kind enough to beat me too it hopefully that will work instead. I did have another differently dated list but I need to tidy it up first.

I will send you the same spreadsheet that hexagon789 sent me. Hopefully they don't mind!

Not in the slightest

 

[muddy water]

More than happy to do either, but as Westie has been kind enough to beat me too it hopefully that will work instead. I did have another differently dated list but I need to tidy it up first.



Not in the slightest

Thanks for your hard work!
It would be good to see the other list when it is ready.
It is great that people like you obtained this information at the time, rather than just loco numbers. How did you get it? Meeting ever train at Birmingham New Street?

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks for your hard work!
It would be good to see the other list when it is ready.
It is great that people like you obtained this information at the time, rather than just loco numbers. How did you get it? Meeting ever train at Birmingham New Street?

Neither list is mine I hasten to make clear, I simply had a habit of saving anything I found interesting on the Web some years ago - things like formations lists, timetables, photos etc etc.