Want to know why you can't get that cheap CrossCountry Advance?

[bnm]

Thanks to the Penalty Fare Appeal website who've managed to get hold of a screencap from CrossCountry's intranet, we now know for definite that it is pointless looking for an Advance Purchase ticket on CrossCountry on a Sunday or most of Friday, or any train before 0930 Mon-Thur.

I, like many others, was under the impression that I'd missed out on AP tickets with CrossCountry, thinking they'd sold out. Turns out there were never any available in the first place.

CrossCountry should make this information public so that folks don't have to bother making fruitless online searches for cheap AP tickets on their routes at the times specified.

I appreciate that AP tickets are there only to fill empty seats and CrossCountry have huge problems managing capacity, but it is a bit disingenuous to advertise the headline AP prices when, on two days of the week they are simply not available.

As a direct result of feedback and the information provided by by Train Managers and Senior conductors in completing passenger counts in Avantix, and what many of you have said about the quantity of advance purchase tickets available on morning services, the advance purchase tickets policy has been standardised as follows.
Mon-Thu start of service until 09:30 no cheap advance fares anywhere on our network.
Fri – from 1200 onwards no cheap advance fares anywhere on our network.
Sat – managed based on demand for individual trains.
Sun – no cheap advance fares anywhere on our network.

 

[All Line Rover]

Now THAT'S a surprise! :roll:

You're right that they should make this information public (it matches entirely with the journey planners), but it wouldn't be very good publicity.

Perhaps this is why XC don't mention the cheapest fares in their adverts, because if they aren't available all the time perhaps that falls foul of advertising rules? Virgin do the same thing - they don't advertise the £7 BHM to EUS fares and the £11.50 MAN/LIV to EUS fares.

I disagree that XC always suffer from "extreme overcrowding." First Class on early morning Manchester to Birmingham services can be very quiet (less than 25% full). Surely they can offer from cheap First Class Advances there! Standard Class is always packed - shifting some people into First Class would surely help.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Thanks to the Penalty Fare Appeal website who've managed to get hold of a screencap from CrossCountry's intranet, we now know for definite that it is pointless looking for an Advance Purchase ticket on CrossCountry on a Sunday or most of Friday, or any train before 0930 Mon-Thur.

I, like many others, was under the impression that I'd missed out on AP tickets with CrossCountry, thinking they'd sold out. Turns out there were never any available in the first place.

CrossCountry should make this information public so that folks don't have to bother making fruitless online searches for cheap AP tickets on their routes at the times specified.

I appreciate that AP tickets are there only to fill empty seats and CrossCountry have huge problems managing capacity, but it is a bit disingenuous to advertise the headline AP prices when, on two days of the week they are simply not available.

I Wouldn't say Advance tickets are not available at all. I have just booked 2 tickets from Plymouth to Leeds for the first Friday in August. They were £26 for an Advance single with a Railcard (so £39 without). As the journey is only a single journey (journey down is different altogether) I don't think that is bad value. Whilst it is not the cheapest possible Advance fare, it is not the most expensive either.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

:roll: Looks like its the intention that XC Advance tickets will also be withdrawn from other XC trains which regularly get reported as being "full and standing" (as well as being non available before 0930 Mon-Thurs, after 1200 Fridays and all day Sundays).

P.S. Will also make the Trainline's advertising claims harder to justify since their supposed 43% average saving is on Advance fares and selected routes only, subject to availability. And if there's no availability...

 

[All Line Rover]

I Wouldn't say Advance tickets are not available at all. I have just booked 2 tickets from Plymouth to Leeds for the first Friday in August. They were £26 for an Advance single with a Railcard (so £39 without). As the journey is only a single journey (journey down is different altogether) I don't think that is bad value. Whilst it is not the cheapest possible Advance fare, it is not the most expensive either.

Read the screenshot and you'll know that "AP tickets" only refers to the "cheap" tickets. This doesn't mean that all AP tickets are removed.

 

[Paul Kelly]

By removing advance quota availability surely they're shooting themselves in the foot, as to avoid paying exorbitant XC walkup fares passengers are even more likely then to buy split tickets, for which XC will get less revenue than from their own advances?

From a technical point of view, I'm curious as to what extent this is controlled by setting zero quotas for advance fares on the relevant trains and to what extent it is controlled by setting blanket rules for booking engines. Before 9:30 there are never any advance XC fares available anywhere and I think that is a blanket rule. But maybe the Sunday/Friday after 12pm rules are more flexible and controlled by setting quotas.

 

[bnm]

Remember, this only applies to the cheapest Advance tickets - slightly more expensive Advance tickets will still be available.

It's not really that clear. The intranet screencap refers to 'cheap' not 'cheapest'.

'Cheap' is open to interpretation. If the AP ticket cost less than the relevant walk-up single then it can be regarded as 'cheap'.

 

[WestCoast]

The whole XC operation is despairing. If only they could double-up every Voyager!

You can't expect them to put very cheap advances on overcrowded services - they were originally for filling seats and not vestibule space in the case of XC! :roll:

 

[Failed Unit]

I would be very surprised if most routes don't have the cheapest tickets available every day. Not much demand on the first trains of the day and they only need to have one on sale per day (not train) to comply. The way the system works it could be and Edinburgh - Penzance capable slot which could be taken by someone doing newcastle - Durham. The seat was available afterall.

 

[bnm]

I would be very surprised if most routes don't have the cheapest tickets available every day. Not much demand on the first trains of the day and they only need to have one on sale per day (not train) to comply. The way the system works it could be and Edinburgh - Penzance capable slot which could be taken by someone doing newcastle - Durham. The seat was available afterall.

If that 'slot' is taken by someone purchasing 'Newcastle-Durham' then surely the same seat is still available at the same AP price point for Edinburgh-Newcastle and Durham-Penzance or points in between? Or does the yield management system not factor that in?

 

[Failed Unit]

If that 'slot' is taken by someone purchasing 'Newcastle-Durham' then surely the same seat is still available at the same AP price point for Edinburgh-Newcastle and Durham-Penzance or points in between? Or does the yield management system not factor that in?

It doesn't always seem to, other wise you would nearly always be able to find mega cheap fares at the extreme ends of the route.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Read the screenshot and you'll know that "AP tickets" only refers to the cheapest ones. Perhaps the OP should rephrase his post slightly to make this clearer?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Remember, this only applies to the cheapest Advance tickets - slightly more expensive Advance tickets will still be available.

Couldn't read the screenshot on my phone before, but now I am home I have had a look. To be a pedant It doesn't say "cheapest" it says "cheap", which is slightly different.

 

[bnm]

It doesn't always seem to, other wise you would nearly always be able to find mega cheap fares at the extreme ends of the route.

Could it be that at the extreme ends of a route XC decides not to bother with AP tickets at all as they will get more revenue from their ORCATS share of walk-up fares? Or from their own 'XC only' walk-up fares.

 

[All Line Rover]

Couldn't read the screenshot on my phone before, but now I am home I have had a look. To be a pedant It doesn't say "cheapest" it says "cheap", which is slightly different.

Sorry, I misread. The opposite of "cheap" is "expensive" though, and even when XC remove the "cheap" fares, the ones that are left are not very expensive.

For example, the cheapest BHM to OXF Standard Class Advance fare on a Sunday is £12, compared to the cheapest they sell being £10. That's a very minute difference, and is still a lot cheaper than the Off-Peak single.

 

[Greenback]

For my journeys to the North I've given up looking at XC Advance fares, It's invariably cheaper to use other TOC's. Even going via London to leeds or Newcastle cna be cheaper than XC.

In fairness, they are not going to offer very cheap fares on busy trains. The whole point of the cheapest fare sis to fill empty seats on quiet services. But it's a sad indictment of the way the industry has gone that Advance fares are, for many people, the only way that they can afford train travel.

 

[Ferret]

Couldn't read the screenshot on my phone before, but now I am home I have had a look. To be a pedant It doesn't say "cheapest" it says "cheap", which is slightly different.

I thought this was a load of bollards when I read the opening post, and now having managed to view the link as well, I know it's bollards. In other words, XC have barred the very cheapest Advance fares from those trains that run at the times mentioned. Advance fares still exist for those trains though, albeit priced in a way to maximise yield.

 

[bnm]

I, too, am coming round to that idea. I freely admit that when I saw the article on the Penalty Fare Support website I was taken in by the spin that gave me an opportunity to knock CrossCountry. For that I apologise. XC are probably the TOC that gets the least favourable coverage on rail forums and I did rather pander to that viewpoint.

So, whilst their ticketing arrangements, as covered by this intranet screencap, don't stand up to scrutiny, I still reserve the right to avoid the god-awful Vomiters wherever and whenever possible.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It is actually quite sensible yield management the way they do it, as should be expected.

The Friday I was looking at in August, I looked at all the Plymouth to Leeds direct trains. The ones with the cheapest seats were the HST diagrams, while on some of the Voyager diagrams there were none at all. Again, I doubt this is because they have all sold, there just weren't any of the cheaper ones on the Voyager turns in the first place, when they have an HST with more space and hour either side. So they bung the cheaper seats on the HSTs to manage the demand.

 

[Ferret]

I, too, am coming round to that idea. I freely admit that when I saw the article on the Penalty Fare Support website I was taken in by the spin that gave me an opportunity to knock CrossCountry. For that I apologise. XC are probably the TOC that gets the least favourable coverage on rail forums and I did rather pander to that viewpoint.

So, whilst their ticketing arrangements, as covered by this intranet screencap, don't stand up to scrutiny, I still reserve the right to avoid the god-awful Vomiters wherever and whenever possible.

I should point out that I was ranting at the website and not you!