Warrington and Stockport Railway

[TheGrew]

Hi Everyone, this morning I was just pondering whether the re-opening of the Warrington and Stockport Railway would be feasible. It looks like most of the alignment apart from George Richards way near Stockport hasn't be built on, and I think you might be able to viaduct that or realign part of the road to make space for at least a single track.
The line from Liverpool to Warrington BQ Low Level has been retained for freight so this could provide a Freight artery from Liverpool to Sheffield bypassing Central Manchester.
In addition to this if stations were opened near the Knutsford Road swing bridge at Lymm and roughly near St Georges way you could open up new rail opportunities and a couple of others on the line to Stockport, you could run a Warrington-Stockport service that I think would have quite reasonable patronage (maybe continuing to Manchester/Liverpool).
I appreciate a number of structures on the route would need to be replaced (most notably the bridge over the ship canal).

But what do people think, would such a route be a useful addition or an expensive white elephant?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The existing use of the single-track section from the Timperley area through to the junction near Stockport is one matter to consider.

 

[table38]

I think the biggest obstruction is state of the bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal at Latchford

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/other-sites/69420-latchford-railway-viaduct-warrington-march-2012-a.html

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/l/latchford/index.shtml

However expensive repairs were needed to the bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal and as many trains could take an alternative route the line closed east of Latchford.

 

[TheGrew]

Does anyone know if the bridge is listed because if not could it just be more simply replaced with something new? As for timperly that looks to be a relatively short section that could maybe be redoubled?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I know the route well. My grandfather was a signalman at Dunham Massey and Lymm for 45 years!
Most of the route west of Broadheath is now part of the Pennine Way.
I'm not sure people would take kindly to handing it back to railway use.
The connections to the existing lines at both ends (Thelwall-Latchford and Broadheath-Skelton) are probably feasible but very expensive, with new bridge spans and embankments needed.
The onward route from Cheadle Heath through Stockport TD has also gone for good.
The passenger traffic on the line (I was one) went down the MSJ&A to Manchester OR from Broadheath, not to Stockport.
There is no chance of the Broadheath-Timperley connection being restored as it has been built on (not to mention Metrolink).
The amount of east-west freight traffic through the Manchester area is actually very small.
A restored line wouldn't help in reaching Trafford Park or Port Salford.
The former big user, coal from Yorkshire to Fiddler's Ferry, now goes north-south on the WCML or from Liverpool (that's what did for the Woodhead route too).
So, despite a good commuter demand locally from Lymm and around, I don't believe it will be reopened.
A restored Skelton Jn-Glazebrook-Culcheth-Golborne route would be more use.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As for Timperley, that looks to be a relatively short section that could maybe be redoubled?

My posting referred to the current line section singling from Skelton Junction in the Timperley area to Edgeley Junction in the Stockport area, which has now only single span bridge sections in the environs of the area of Cheadle. There is no way whatsoever that I would refer to that as a short section of line.

The Warrington and Stockport Railway opened in 1853 between Wilderspool in Warrington and Broadheath in Altrincham and was extended by the Stockport, Timperley and Altrincham Junction Railway to Stockport.

 

[HSTEd]

Wouldn't avoiding central manchester require crossing moves at Stockport?

That could cause havoc on the main line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My posting referred to the current line section singling from Skelton Junction in the Timperley area to Edgeley Junction in the Stockport area, which has now only single span bridge sections in the environs of the area of Cheadle. There is no way whatsoever that I would refer to that as a short section of line.

The Warrington and Stockport Railway opened in 1853 between Wilderspool in Warrington and Broadheath in Altrincham and was extended by the Stockport, Timperley and Altrincham Junction Railway to Stockport.

Paul, if you mean the Northenden Jn-Edgeley Jn (LNWR) line, I don't think it was ever completely double track, although the single track section used to be shorter than it is now (2m31c).
The Skelton Jn-Northenden Jn section (CLC) was/is double track.
It divided into 3 double track lines at Skelton Jn.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Paul, if you mean the Northenden Jn-Edgeley Jn (LNWR) line, I don't think it was ever completely double track, although the single track section used to be shorter than it is now (2m31c).

Yes, that was the section that I had in mind in particular. The bridge sections in Cheadle that came to mind includes that one the crosses over Roscoe's Roundabout which is definitely a new-ish single track bridge and there is a similar bridge near to the former Barnes Hospital. I am unsure about the brick bridge that crosses over Bird Hall Lane.

Can someone clarify these bridge matters and those I have may have overlooked, in case my memory has played me false.

 

[Signal Head]

My posting referred to the current line section singling from Skelton Junction in the Timperley area to Edgeley Junction in the Stockport area, which has now only single span bridge sections in the environs of the area of Cheadle. There is no way whatsoever that I would refer to that as a short section of line.

The Warrington and Stockport Railway opened in 1853 between Wilderspool in Warrington and Broadheath in Altrincham and was extended by the Stockport, Timperley and Altrincham Junction Railway to Stockport.

Only Northenden - Edgeley is single, done in the late 60s I think. Skelton Junction - Northenden is still double (the double track starts when the line leaves the shared formation with Metrolink, just past Deansgate Junction). You're correct that the single line section has one or more single-track bridge spans though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wouldn't avoiding central manchester require crossing moves at Stockport?

That could cause havoc on the main line.

Not if you put the Khyber Pass back in, then send it all via the Hope Valley to use the MML, or onwards to the ECML (or the GCR once that gets reopened).

:roll:

 

[8A Rail]

The former big user, coal from Yorkshire to Fiddler's Ferry, now goes north-south on the WCML or from Liverpool (that's what did for the Woodhead route too).

I am not sure waht that highlighted in blue is meant to say but if it means the Woodhead route was partly closed because of coal coming from Liverpool (Docks) to Fidlers Ferry PS - this is incorrect as the Woodhead route closed in 1981 and coal from the docks only began in late 89 / early 90 to FFPS so not connected. Coal to FFPS at that time arrived (as far as I am aware) from a number of sources including Parkside, Bold, Cronton Colieries, as well as imported via Birkenhead Docks and of course coal from Yorkshire which came across the Diggle route.

 

[HSTEd]

Not if you put the Khyber Pass back in, then send it all via the Hope Valley to use the MML, or onwards to the ECML (or the GCR once that gets reopened).

:roll:

I am not sure what the Khyber Pass is in this context?

 

[Signal Head]

I am not sure what the Khyber Pass is in this context?

Former connecting line between the Edgeley-Northenden line (Cheadle Village Junction) and the Buxton line (Davenport Junction).
There's some information here, and more photo's amongst this collection

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I am not sure waht that highlighted in blue is meant to say but if it means the Woodhead route was partly closed because of coal coming from Liverpool (Docks) to Fidlers Ferry PS - this is incorrect as the Woodhead route closed in 1981 and coal from the docks only began in late 89 / early 90 to FFPS so not connected. Coal to FFPS at that time arrived (as far as I am aware) from a number of sources including Parkside, Bold, Cronton Colieries, as well as imported via Birkenhead Docks and of course coal from Yorkshire which came across the Diggle route.

No, I meant the cessation of Yorkshire coal to Fiddlers Ferry killed off the Woodhead route as well as the closely linked Godley Jn-Northenden-Latchford line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Only Northenden - Edgeley is single, done in the late 60s I think. Skelton Junction - Northenden is still double (the double track starts when the line leaves the shared formation with Metrolink, just past Deansgate Junction). You're correct that the single line section has one or more single-track bridge spans though.

I think your posting appeared to cross with my later posting but the same section highlighted in the quote above concurs as I did name two of these bridges that cross over roads at Barnes Hospital and at Roscoe's Roundabout.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Former connecting line between the Edgeley-Northenden line (Cheadle Village Junction) and the Buxton line (Davenport Junction).
There's some information here, and more photo's amongst this collection

Was there ever a connection to the line that passed through the Midland Railway station at Hazel Grove that closed in 1917 ?

 

[Signal Head]

No, I meant the cessation of Yorkshire coal to Fiddlers Ferry killed off the Woodhead route as well as the closely linked Godley Jn-Northenden-Latchford line.

Godley-Northenden ceased to be a through route when the damage to Tiviot Dale Tunnel occurred in 1980, after which MGRs were diverted via Guide Bridge & Stockport, although this was not long before Woodhead closed anyway.

At the point the CLC line closed work was in hand to abolish Brinnington Junction box (owing to persistent vandalism, the original box had been burnt down, the same fate I think befell the temporary structure which replaced it) and provide IB signals worked from Woodley & Georges Road. This was close to being commissioned when the tunnel damage forced a 'temporary' closure, so it seems unlikely BR was planning to close the route, even with Woodhead closure on the cards at the time.

It is possible the plan was, when the MGRs had switched to the Diggle route, to route from Guide Bridge North to East Junctions, then Hyde Junction, regaining the original route at Apethorne Junction.

In the end, when Guide Bridge was resignalled in 1984, the North to East Junction chord was relegated to a siding, with no direct access to the main line at the North Junction end.

The Lymm/Latchford line remained open until around 1985, still carrying coal to Fiddlers as far as I remember, but which had come via Diggle/Stockport.

What probably really did for this route was the political events of 1984/5, after which coal mined in Yorkshire became increasingly rare.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst an associated line query, in the later years of the 20th century, was there not a thrice-weekly tanker train from the Partington works estate through the site of the former West Timperley railway station to the South Wales area ?

I would be pleased if anyone has any details on what was carried in these tankers and the exact destination point.

 

[dewsnapsliding]

It is possible the plan was, when the MGRs had switched to the Diggle route, to route from Guide Bridge North to East Junctions, then Hyde Junction, regaining the original route at Apethorne Junction.

In the end, when Guide Bridge was resignalled in 1984, the North to East Junction chord was relegated to a siding, with no direct access to the main line at the North Junction

is this the bridge which leads off Guide Bridge Sidings up towards Dewsnap?

I always thought if the Tiviot Dale line had remained, you could have removed all Yorkshire/N.E Manchester Airport traffic away from Manchester and Stockport by using the above route.

 

[8A Rail]

No, I meant the cessation of Yorkshire coal to Fiddlers Ferry killed off the Woodhead route as well as the closely linked Godley Jn-Northenden-Latchford line.

Thank you for your clarification. It is appreciated.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I think the biggest obstruction is state of the bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal at Latchford

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/other-sites/69420-latchford-railway-viaduct-warrington-march-2012-a.html

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/l/latchford/index.shtml

Extensive repairs yes.
The main ironwork & substructure look in reasonable order. The walkways look shot. The 'goldfish bowl' may be hiding more work.
Imo (I'm not a structural engineer) the bridge could be renovated (way over 30 years of neglect) for a fraction of the cost of a new bridge. Still a very pretty penny!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As I understand it, the bridge and its approaches were owned by BRB Residuary after privatisation (ie not planned to be operational).
Since the BRB has now formally been wound up, I don't know who owns it.

The bridge design was much the same as the others built to span the MSC in the 1890s (carrying the WCML at Walton, and the CLC at Partington and Irlam).
The Walton and Irlam bridges are still in heavy use.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Since the BRB has now formally been wound up, I don't know who owns it.

The Public Bodies Act 2011 incorporated the assets of BRB Residuary, but those assets and other assets of different bodies which were also incorporated in the term references of the said Act were then passed onto different organisations.

Sorry, I have not been able to trace the now-current owner of this bridge, though I would not be at all surprised to find the hand of the DfT involved considering the bridge spans the Manchester Ship Canal, but this is just my own personal (and cynical) opinion.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

May I remind everyone of thread title name, interesting as the other line area being discussed actually is.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How much, including land and property purchase in the retail park area plus a brand new overbridge spanning the A56 Manchester Road in Broadheath and the embankment reinstatement, is that very small area alone of this route expected to cost ?

 

[spargazer]

I am talking about the line that goes through Partington and over the canal to Cadishead, the one via Dunham is history, The M6 widening at Thelwall also buried that one.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am talking about the line that goes through Partington and over the canal to Cadishead, the one via Dunham is history, The M6 widening at Thelwall also buried that one.

This thread is about the Warrington and Stockport Railway. You will note there was a comment about the condition of the bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal in the Warrington area in an earlier posting on the thread.

The line you mention above is a totally different line. Perhaps it would be better if someone opened a new thread for the line to which you refer, as there is much interesting discussion material to expand a theme upon.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I see that all non-Warrington and Stockport Railway railway postings that referred to the other line have now been collectively entered under a new thread title of...Cheshire Lines Committee Skelton Junction to Glazebrook Line

This should now help matters.