Was their any compensation for cancellation or delays back in BR days?

[renegademaster]

Also was their any kind of duty to get you home if the last service gets cancelled like their is now?

 

[Somewhere]

You got days added into season ticket renewals for strike days or other days when there was major disruption.
There was a discount on season ticket renewals if the punctuality was below a certain level.
Last trains always ran back in BR days, unless there was a major reason why they couldn't. Hotels and taxis were normal if the last trains couldn't run
Back then the railways were seen as a public service, unlike the shambles they are now

 

[Irascible]

Trains weren't cancelled unless there was a major reason either - you might not like travelling in whatever was hauled out to replace whatever failed, but three was more chance something would turn up. There were on average less trains, though, I think.

 

[RuddA]

The memory is hazy, but did BR launch the passengers charter which was based on the arrival time at the final destination? I recall additional minutes being added between Diss and Norwich so we usually arrived early and were never late.

 

[Falcon1200]

Trains weren't cancelled unless there was a major reason either

Trains most certainly were cancelled for, often, exactly the same reasons as now! I recall being at Liverpool Street in 1979 when consecutive Bishops Stortford trains were cancelled due to 'staff shortage' (and only when passengers besieged the Station Manager's office did BR condescend to put special stops on a Cambridge service).

Later on, when DOO was being introduced on the North Clyde lines, BR ceased filling Guards vacancies, resulting in daily cancellations; There was one particular train which, because it was a simple out and back cancellation, did not run for months on end.

However the level of cancellations nowadays, and in particular the pre-2200 removal from the next day's timetable, is a disgrace.

Back on topic; When I was a booking office clerk in the early 1980s I recall paying out refunds for season tickets unusable on strike days. However on the latest shift (1645 start) not enough cash was taken in sales so we had to make a sign saying 'No refunds at this window'!

 

[Magdalia]

Trains weren't cancelled unless there was a major reason either - you might not like travelling in whatever was hauled out to replace whatever failed, but three was more chance something would turn up. There were on average less trains, though, I think.

When I commuted on the Southern Region in the early 1980s cancellations were common, particularly because of staff shortages. The 0814 Barnehurst to Blackfriars was cancelled so frequently that a song was written about it. But, where possible, special stop orders on other trains would be issued to fill gaps in the service.

And late running was common too, the running gag in Reggie Perrin did reflect reality.

You got days added into season ticket renewals for strike days or other days when there was major disruption.
There was a discount on season ticket renewals if the punctuality was below a certain level.

I don't remember these from my early days of commuting. My recollection is that they were introduced in the John Major Cones Hotline era.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

The memory is hazy, but did BR launch the passengers charter which was based on the arrival time at the final destination? I recall additional minutes being added between Diss and Norwich so we usually arrived early and were never late.

I think it was about 1991/92 that the charter was launched, but am happy to be corrected if I a wrong. What I do remember very clearly is a newspaper cartoon at the time. Two men talking, one is holding a polythene bag with a goldfish swimming in it. Man holding polythene bag says "I was given this because my train was 25 minutes late".

 

[sh24]

My recollection is there was more flexibility - stop orders, short notice relief services - but that punctuality and cancellations were as bad if not worse. When you consider how many more passengers use the network now v the 80's, the modern railway doesn't do badly outside of the real farces at Avanti, TPE. Passengers charter was 1992, as part of the wider Citizens Charter policy for all sorts of public services.

 

[Devonian]

The memory is hazy, but did BR launch the passengers charter which was based on the arrival time at the final destination? I recall additional minutes being added between Diss and Norwich so we usually arrived early and were never late.

Part of the Major government's "Citizen's Charter" initiative, the provisions of the Passenger's Charter came into force on 3 May 1992 (I presume a timetable change date). It still offered only discretionary compensation for ordinary tickets, but stated that this was expected to be "vouchers to the value of 20% or more of the price paid" on the leg of any journey delayed by an hour or more, or a full refund for any journey abandoned due to delay or cancellation before you travelled. Free non-alcoholic drinks from the buffet for delays over an hour were introduced. Season ticket discounts for failing to meet (new?) punctuality targets were also included from 10 January 1993. Compensation limits were doubled from £500 to £1000.

Even before that BR offered ex-gratia compensation: my father was offered a free ticket to anywhere on the network after a particularly bad journey in the late 1980s.

 

[Irascible]

And late running was common too, the running gag in Reggie Perrin did reflect reality.

That I can absolutely agree with. For the routes I frequented in BR days though I very rarely had a train completely cancelled on me. I've very rarely commuted in the main part of the rush hour though ( or lived south of the Thames when I was in the south-east ).

 

[nw1]

I do remember such things as EPBs replacing mainline stock for journeys as long as London-Portsmouth on at least one occasion (October 1983). From what I gather this was not atypical.

There have also been tales on here in the past of 304s substituting on WCML IC services when they were the only option available.

You don't see that kind of thing these days, even within the same TOC (since privatisation I don't think I've ever seen a 455 on the South Western outside the suburban area, for example).

I did commute to school for most (7 years) of the 80s on the South Western, covering both the blue-and-grey and NSE eras, and delays did seem infrequent outside of exceptional circumstances (snow, October 1987 storm, strikes). I did of course avoid the evening rush hour when, from what I gather, delays were more commonplace.

 

[gordonthemoron]

In the eighties, colleague got a lift back from Grantham to Nottingham in the cab of a freight loco. We were both working for BR at the time

 

[Cricketer8for9]

The 1989-90 timetable had a very unusual 1824 Victoria to Smitham (it may have been Tattenham Corner) which was Clapham Jct, Streatham Common, East Croydon. Very often cancelled due to staff shortages and didn’t reappear from May onwards. I can also recall a New Year’s Eve (1987 or 1988) when the suburban services from Thornton Heath were significantly cancelled and NYE 1986 getting the 68 all the way from South Croydon to London to avoid the cancelled trains.

On the compensation front I did get days extended on my season ticket, which could be problematic if the ticket then expired after the January price increase. I think this was because of failures to meet punctuality or cancellation targets.

 

[GB71]

It was indeed 1992 when the Citizens Charter came in that "formal" compensation came in - you used to get a form to complete from any ticket office - if I recall correctly it was in triplicate. You completed it and handed it in at any ticket office on the network together with your tickets. As a student back then studying in Dundee I used to travel regularly to family in Milton Keynes usually using one of the few direct Glasgow to/from Euston services that would stop at MKC.

Those who remember the WCML back in the early nineties will know an hours delay was inevitable and shortly after the introduction of the Passengers Charter lo and behold total signal failure at Carlisle and a 90 minute delay into GLC. first test of the charter for me I asked for a claim form at the Dundee ticket office on arrival was given this form - carbonless copy with 3 pages. Filled it in the clerk gave me one copy back which he stamped to acknowledge I'd handed in my tickets as well. About 10 days later I was delighted to receive back a £20 voucher and a letter from InterCity apologising for the delay. The charter was indeed a minimum of 20% but in my case I had "only" paid £36.30 for a DEE/MKC Supersaver with a railcard discount - they were pre-printed vouchers of a set amount so not like today's exact amounts.

I claimed a few times in those pre-privatisation days and always found InterCity to be very reasonable and generous considering prior to 1992 it had been tough luck!

 

[30907]

As an enquiry clerk back in 1980 I can recall being told by my supervisor "we don't pay out for consequential losses" - you could tell punters to write to the DMO for a ticket refund and that was it.

I can confirm that cancellations on the SE suburbans were plentiful owing to shortages of guards, the Central was better though the evening loco-hauled Uckfield sticks in the memory for cancellation - meaning passengers were an hour late home. The SW was pretty good, and relatively punctual - as it should have been with only one terminus and all those grade-separated junctions, but the flipside was that it could go spectacularly wrong at Waterloo!

 

[62484GlenLyon]

In 1994 my wife and sister-in-law were 3 hours late into Fort William on the beds from London and they each received ticket vouchers worth more than what they had paid for their tickets. As the delay meant nothing more inconvenient than a late breakfast they were vey pleased. However, we all wonder to this day how BR dealt with a woman who missed a ferry connection, the next sailing of which was three days later.

 

[Undaunted]

With respect to refunds and late running, a certain amount of discretion was afforded to local management in the 1980s. As a Traffic Manager overseeing part of the Berks & Hants route and stations between Pangbourne and Didcot, I received a sad letter from a lady who had travelled from Bristol to Pangbourne for a relative's funeral, but missed it when the once an hour service from Didcot to Pangbourne was cancelled (not uncommon in the mid 1980s). An absolute no-brainer for a refund, and one which as a relatively junior manager within the Reaxing Area Manager's organisation I was able to authorise without referring to anyone else.

 

[Gloster]

I never worked in booking offices and the like as I disappeared into the signalling grades as quickly as I could, so the following is opinion. It is true that BR was far from punctual, but I wonder if performance was relatively as bad as it did not seem to pack the timetable out with Charter minutes: trains would run as fast as they could, with only the minimum amount of recovery and pathing added. And we did not have a lot of gizmos, such as mobile ‘phones, to help sort things out. I suspect that cancellations were relatively less (except in a few patches, such as London staff shortages in the mid-1970s) and, in particular, the complete abandonment of the service was effectively unknown except in the most extreme weather conditions. We would try and get the passenger through somehow, possibly late, possibly by another route, possibly by using a Stop Order. If we couldn’t get them through, then I believe that BR would pay for taxis, minibuses, etc., or, if necessary, overnight accommodation. I, along with many of my contemporaries, would not have abandoned passengers to sort it out for themselves or taken refuge in obscure ticketing regulations.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

BR set up *"CATS" teams -volunteer staff (usually off the clerical side - and paid of it) who would be sent to late running, generally Inter City trains armed with all sorts of things to help the passengers - with reasonable powers to make things better. (like authorising taxi's etc , refreshments and so on.Then - with "one railway" it was easier to get things arranged

I recall one incident when an up West Coast train was badly delayed into Watford , and on board were 2 passengers on honeymoon bound for the USA - so when it got going , it was specially stopped at the latter station and a waiting taxi took them straight to Heathrow rather than going via London and they got their plane with no stress. A similar distress call re a passenger en route for his seriousely ailing father missed the DC at the point when it dropped to half hourly of an evening , so a taxi was arranged direct to the house - he got there in time.

Generally speaking it was interesting work , and reduced a lot of stress and claims.


*Customer Action Teams .......

 

[Elecman]

BR set up *"CATS" teams -volunteer staff (usually off the clerical side - and paid of it) who would be sent to late running, generally Inter City trains armed with all sorts of things to help the passengers - with reasonable powers to make things better. (like authorising taxi's etc , refreshments and so on.Then - with "one railway" it was easier to get things arranged

I recall one incident when an up West Coast train was badly delayed into Watford , and on board were 2 passengers on honeymoon bound for the USA - so when it got going , it was specially stopped at the latter station and a waiting taxi took them straight to Heathrow rather than going via London and they got their plane with no stress. A similar distress call re a passenger en route for his seriousely ailing father missed the DC at the point when it dropped to half hourly of an evening , so a taxi was arranged direct to the house - he got there in time.

Generally speaking it was interesting work , and reduced a lot of stress and claims.


*Customer Action Teams .......

CATS Teams were set up by Cyril Bleasdale after an initiative by Preston Area Managers staff and Preston were the first to have OnCall Retail Managers to handle the CaTS teams I was one of those Managers and did many a CATS team run both North and South of Preston sometimes having overnight layovers at Glasgow or Euston waiting for the first train back the next day. We had emergency bags with the National Timetable and a half Brick mobile phone and could request special Stop orders directly with Regional Control. On one occasion I organised a special stop at Hest Bank crossing to pick up a CATS team member there as the quickest way to get someone onto a late train going North.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

CATS Teams were set up by Cyril Bleasdale after an initiative by Preston Area Managers staff and Preston were the first to have OnCall Retail Managers to handle the CaTS teams I was one of those Managers and did many a CATS team run both North and South of Preston sometimes having overnight layovers at Glasgow or Euston waiting for the first train back the next day. We had emergency bags with the National Timetable and a half Brick mobile phone and could request special Stop orders directly with Regional Control. On one occasion I organised a special stop at Hest Bank crossing to pick up a CATS team member there as the quickest way to get someone onto a late train going North.

To think BR was deemed "inefficient and uncustomer friendly.....not that the Daily Mail recorded the good things but focused on the bad ones.

A Hatch End staff resident was picked up for CATS duties on the (disused) fast line platforms . Much like your initiative.

Organising things in Area Operations Control areas was possible - for example a special to St Albans Abbey to deliver a late running party group after the branch shutdown was organized.

 

[Elecman]

To think BR was deemed "inefficient and uncustomer friendly.....not that the Daily Mail recorded the good things but focused on the bad ones.

A Hatch End staff resident was picked up for CATS duties on the (disused) fast line platforms . Much like your initiative.

Organising things in Area Operations Control areas was possible - for example a special to St Albans Abbey to deliver a late running party group after the branch shutdown was organized.

Quite !!

 

[The exile]

Some time in the late eighties free coffee / tea was offered on InterCity trains once they reached an hour late. Remember also benefitting from an extension of this to the sandwiches on a very delayed Night Riviera once midnight had passed “they’ve got yesterday’s date now so I can’t sell them anyway.”

 

[Mike Machin]

I do remember such things as EPBs replacing mainline stock for journeys as long as London-Portsmouth on at least one occasion (October 1983). From what I gather this was not atypical.

There have also been tales on here in the past of 304s substituting on WCML IC services when they were the only option available.

You don't see that kind of thing these days, even within the same TOC (since privatisation I don't think I've ever seen a 455 on the South Western outside the suburban area, for example).

I did commute to school for most (7 years) of the 80s on the South Western, covering both the blue-and-grey and NSE eras, and delays did seem infrequent outside of exceptional circumstances (snow, October 1987 storm, strikes). I did of course avoid the evening rush hour when, from what I gather, delays were more commonplace.

Yes, I have experienced hastily cobbled together formations as last-minute substitutions, with 4-EPBs used instead of REP/TC stock on the Bournemouth line too on more than one occasion. Not ideal, but at least the train ran!

 

[thedbdiboy]

You got days added into season ticket renewals for strike days or other days when there was major disruption.
There was a discount on season ticket renewals if the punctuality was below a certain level.
Last trains always ran back in BR days, unless there was a major reason why they couldn't. Hotels and taxis were normal if the last trains couldn't run
Back then the railways were seen as a public service, unlike the shambles they are now

Oh dear, rose tinted spectacles. Until the 1992 Passenger's Charter there was no automatic right to nay payment for delays. The 1992 Charter introduced some payouts but the Treasury set the bar very high to ensure that not much actually got paid out. Delay payments were in vouchers. The industry is in a shambles now but it went through appalling issues when nationalised - in 1989 when I worked for Southern Region Customer Services the peak hours were producing 25 to 30% cancellations due to driver shortage. Service frequencies were well below what is the norm now on many lines and several suburban routes had no Sunday service.

The memory is hazy, but did BR launch the passengers charter which was based on the arrival time at the final destination? I recall additional minutes being added between Diss and Norwich so we usually arrived early and were never late.

Yes, arrival times were padded to try and reduce payouts

 

[Helvellyn]

And late running was common too, the running gag in Reggie Perrin did reflect reality.

LeonardRossiter.com: Reggie Online - Reginald Perrin's train excuses

Above are the excuses for younger members! All too believable, which is probably part of the gag. If not an escaped Puma I wonder if something did escape from Chessington once and cause a delay!