Waterloo international- old Eurostar route

[coupwotcoup]

That is a very long delay. I am surprised they did not just arrange ticket acceptance and tell passengers to alight at Ashford and get Southern (or Connex South Central as it was back then) services via Hastings and Eastbourne and Lewes to reach London via the BML route.

I presume your train just waited until the tunnels were cleared. Considering the long delay it sounds like it probably waited for one of the usual routes to be reopened rather than going via an unusual route.

It wasn't the greatest of experiences. A few people suffered with panic attacks and after initially dishing out bottles of water and then some,
to all on board, eventually they had run out of everything - food and drink.

I just about managed to survive on a few bottles of wine I'd bought back with me and being a smoker then, one was still allowed to spark up.

Can recall a group of us just wiling away the hours with one girl apparently supposedly starting a new job the following day.

Everything was stop start all the way back to Waterloo and I'm sure we spent the final few hours with the station in sight.

I'm sure England were playing Portugal in the Euros and having entered the tunnel two goals up, came out the other side 3-2 down...

Or something along those lines. Time plays havoc with the old memory cells..

That is a very long delay. I am surprised they did not just arrange ticket acceptance and tell passengers to alight at Ashford and get Southern (or Connex South Central as it was back then) services via Hastings and Eastbourne and Lewes to reach London via the BML route.

I presume your train just waited until the tunnels were cleared. Considering the long delay it sounds like it probably waited for one of the usual routes to be reopened rather than going via an unusual route.

Sorry, to further answer your question, we had just left Ashford when the train first ground to a halt and Ebbsfleet
was still Gravesend and Northfleet at said time.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It wasn't the greatest of experiences. A few people suffered with panic attacks and after initially dishing out bottles of water and then some,
to all on board, eventually they had run out of everything - food and drink.

I just about managed to survive on a few bottles of wine I'd bought back with me and being a smoker then, one was still allowed to spark up.

Can recall a group of us just wiling away the hours with one girl apparently supposedly starting a new job the following day.

Everything was stop start all the way back to Waterloo and I'm sure we spent the final few hours with the station in sight.

I'm sure England were playing Portugal in the Euros and having entered the tunnel two goals up, came out the other side 3-2 down...

Or something along those lines. Time plays havoc with the old memory cells..



Sorry, to further answer your question, we had just left Ashford when the train first ground to a halt and Ebbsfleet
was still Gravesend and Northfleet at said time.

It’s interesting, there was another story I remember on this thread in 2019 about a 90s Eurostar journey that was terribly delayed like yours. In the end they were diverted to a (closed) Kensington Olympia station in the early hours. I wonder if it was the same occasion.

If you were even delayed outside Waterloo, I wonder if the problem was more than just a tunnel blockage? Their story seemed to suggest the entire rail system in southern England had just collapsed for one reason or another.

 

[Bikeman78]

As I’m sure I’ve mentioned before, on at least one occasion a train ran in service via a reversal at Kensington Olympia - though that was very much the exception. I was also on one that did a “two point turn” (ie double reversal) in the Chislehurst junction complex (sorry, can’t remember all the proper names or look them up atm) - but again that was “coping on the day” rather than anything official.

Set 3011+3012 ran via Kensington Olympia in August 1999. By chance, earlier that year, I had my only run via Maidstone East with the same pair of power cars. I went via Catford a few times but never via Bat & Ball.

I remember being taken to Tonbridge to see the Eurostars creep through. Next to the comparatively ancient slammers, the Eurostars were so sleek and futuristic, but seemed much filthier than the slammers - Connex painting the top half of cab ends entirely black was a wise decision.

I recall the EPB farewell tour pulling out of Waterloo parallel to a Eurostar. We cleared the points first and went storming off ahead of it!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Set 3011+3012 ran via Kensington Olympia in August 1999. By chance, earlier that year, I had my only run via Maidstone East with the same pair of power cars. I went via Catford a few times but never via Bat & Ball.

If only I had been around longer to see it all. HS1 is great but it doesn’t beat stuff like this.

 

[ls2270]

Indeed - and by compulsory purchase I think. I know a family who had to move as a result of this... the elegant houses that were to be demolished are very much still standing.

There was an active campaign against the CTRL being routed this way called "Sink the Link", which ran from 1988 to 1991 - there's a brief reference to the campaign here, and a 2004 photo of the old motto graffitied on a railway bridge near Farningham Road station in Kent (no longer there as per Streetview).

If anyone on here is a fan of the contemporary comedy series ‘Desmond’s,’ you can see such campaign posters on the outside of his shop window in Peckham in the closing title sequence!

 

[FGWHST43009]

Were there any special operating or signalling procedures when Eurostars were running on third rail? Did they require special handling by signallers?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

For the first 3 years of operation, before the Belgian high speed line was opened in Dec 1997, Eurostar trains used the classic line from Lille to Brussels via Tournai and Ath.
Something like 20 minutes was knocked off Brussels timings when HSL1 opened.

At our end, I think the original intention was also to clear the route via East Croydon and Redhill to Tonbridge for 373s/92s, but this route's signalling was never upgraded to match, so it remained diesel-worked for the small amount of freight worked that way.
Still, Redhill-Tonbridge got electrified on the side as part of the plan.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Were there any special operating or signalling procedures when Eurostars were running on third rail? Did they require special handling by signallers?

They were run as class 9 workings ( they still are... they just replace the 0 with an O and the 1 with an I in the Eurostar service number to generate an NR compliant headcode within the UK ) to flag them up to the signallers.

That didn't stop an error happening on one occasion where one was famously signalled straight ahead to Victoria instead of turning right across the Stewart's Lane Flyover...

 

[Sad Sprinter]

They were run as class 9 workings ( they still are... they just replace the 0 with an O and the 1 with an I in the Eurostar service number to generate an NR compliant headcode within the UK ) to flag them up to the signallers.

That didn't stop an error happening on one occasion where one was famously signalled straight ahead to Victoria instead of turning right across the Stewart's Lane Flyover...

I remember my Mum telling me that had happened after reading it on Ceefax.

If anyone on here is a fan of the contemporary comedy series ‘Desmond’s,’ you can see such campaign posters on the outside of his shop window in Peckham in the closing title sequence!

The Warwick Gardens route would have been very interesting had it been built. Waterloo to Paris via Peckham.

 

[Brent Goose]

YT user traindriver35 has some excellent clips of this era of Eurostar dotted around his channel. Have attached them below (the latter two aren't focused on E*, but contain clips of them; the HST/373 race at Vauxhall is a particular highlight):

Im curious where the HST service went to, presumably this ended some time back?

 

[30907]

Im curious where the HST service went to, presumably this ended some time bac?

I assume this was the "temporary" replacement for the North of London Eurostars - one ran Manchester-Birmingham-Kensington- Waterloo, the other Edinburgh via ECML and the North London Line. Neither carried many passengers AIUI.

 

[Taunton]

At our end, I think the original intention was also to clear the route via East Croydon and Redhill to Tonbridge for 373s/92s, but this route's signalling was never upgraded to match, so it remained diesel-worked for the small amount of freight worked that way.
Still, Redhill-Tonbridge got electrified on the side as part of the plan.

My understanding was the electrification was done, but something else, either signalling immunisation or power supply, was not enhanced to suit the new traction so it was never used, not even for freight with 92s.

There were issues elsewhere, possibly with the 92s themselves, which led to Class 47 in multiple working Channel Tunnel freights via Maidstone.

 

[Bald Rick]

My understanding was the electrification was done, but something else, either signalling immunisation or power supply, was not enhanced to suit the new traction so it was never used, not even for freight with 92s.

Power supply is fine. It was certain type of track circuits between Purley and Redhill, which were susceptible from interference by the 92s and eurostars. These were eventually replaced long after the tunnel opened.

 

[stuu]

Im curious where the HST service went to, presumably this ended some time back?

There was a brief period where a connecting service ran from Cardiff or Swansea to Waterloo. Others will know the details better than me, it only existed for a couple of years.

 

[Welly]

There was something about standing at an ordinary suburban station watching the Eurostar run past.

 

[Jimini]

There was something about standing at an ordinary suburban station watching the Eurostar run past.

...or a pub beer garden (the Falcon in Clapham was my old local).

 

[Taunton]

There was something about standing at an ordinary suburban station watching the Eurostar run past.

In early days I was waiting at Ravensbourne, on the Catford Loop, when Eurostars would pass from time to time. A very rural-feel station in middle belt London, it occasionally got fleets of Kent expresses passing through, but Eurostar was something else.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Im curious where the HST service went to, presumably this ended some time back?

HSTs to Paddington sometimes diverted to Waterloo when the lne out of Paddington was closed for some reason or other.

 

[Jimini]

HSTs to Paddington sometimes diverted to Waterloo when the line out of Paddington was closed for some reason or other.

Aye, I remember catching these from Waterloo to Reading, I'd guess back in 2002.

 

[43096]

I assume this was the "temporary" replacement for the North of London Eurostars - one ran Manchester-Birmingham-Kensington- Waterloo, the other Edinburgh via ECML and the North London Line. Neither carried many passengers AIUI.

Not in this case. It’s an FGW service with the livery being well after the Eurostar link trains finished. So it will be diverted FGW services which first happened in 2003.

 

[Rescars]

There was a brief period where a connecting service ran from Cardiff or Swansea to Waterloo. Others will know the details better than me, it only existed for a couple of years.

I travelled on it once. A fun way to get from Cardiff to Clapham Junction direct. In view of the Eurostar connections, the conductor attempted announcements in Churchillian French!

 

[MotCO]

There was something about standing at an ordinary suburban station watching the Eurostar run past.

Or broken down at my local station (Chelsfield)

 

[Beebman]

I was on one which came to a stand at Kent House and the driver walking down the platform inspecting the train didn't look very good, however after a few minutes he hurried back and we were soon on our way, and we were only about 10-15 minutes late into Paris.

 

[AY1975]

Slightly O/T but in 1988 I remember being on a CEP boat train from Charing X to Dover which unexpectedly turned left at Chislehurst Jct, then after a somewhat lengthy stop at Swanley (probably the signaller asking the driver if they signed the route) the train continued via Chatham but it was a straight run and ISTR its arrival at Priory wasn't much behind schedule.

Again I know this is O/T but are you sure it was a boat train rather than a normal service train? AFAIK dedicated boat trains always went from Victoria rather than Charing Cross, at least from about 1920 onwards, except that there were Charing Cross to Folkestone Harbour boat trains connecting with the Hoverspeed SeaCat from about 1995 until 2000ish. Strictly speaking those weren't dedicated boat trains in the true sense, though: as I recall they were portion workings of normal service trains.

Back on topic, does anyone know if a Eurostar ever ran via Chatham, Canterbury East and Dover Priory, via Chatham, Ramsgate and around the coast, or via Canterbury West, Minster East and South Junctions and the coast? Obviously all three of these routes would have involved a reversal at Saltwood Junction between Sandling and Folkestone to access the Channel Tunnel. I would guess that they could have used any of these routes if there were engineering works between Ashford and Saltwood Jn. Not sure if any Eurostar drivers ever signed any of these routes, though.

 

[Beebman]

Again I know this is O/T but are you sure it was a boat train rather than a normal service train? AFAIK dedicated boat trains always went from Victoria rather than Charing Cross, at least from about 1920 onwards, except that there were Charing Cross to Folkestone Harbour boat trains connecting with the Hoverspeed SeaCat from about 1995 until 2000ish. Strictly speaking those weren't dedicated boat trains in the true sense, though: as I recall they were portion workings of normal service trains.

I'm certain it was a boat train as it was definitely scheduled to be non-stop to Dover Priory but it's quite possible that it went from Victoria.

 

[Harpo]

FGW/GWR HSTs have used Waterloo via at least three routes.

The Eurostar connecting services (including a Bristol service) ran via the GWML & Kensington, emergency diversions such as during the Southall accident ran via Ascot and there have been scheduled diversions via Basingstoke.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Im curious where the HST service went to, presumably this ended some time back?

The caption says it was a diversion via Ascot because of a Bank Holiday engineering possession at Paddington.
However there was, for some years, a Hst from the East Coast Main Line to Waterloo via the North and West London lines to connect with Eurostar.Not well used because, despite there being no direct Tube (or even bus) between KX and Waterloo, crossing London was far quicker.

I assume this was the "temporary" replacement for the North of London Eurostars - one ran Manchester-Birmingham-Kensington- Waterloo, the other Edinburgh via ECML and the North London Line. Neither carried many passengers AIUI.

The one in the video was neither. It's in FGW livery.

There was a brief period where a connecting service ran from Cardiff or Swansea to Waterloo. Others will know the details better than me, it only existed for a couple of years.

That was run by Alphaline and (the erstwhile Wales &West franchise which was later broken up to form parts of TfW and Greater Western) with a class 158

Not in this case. It’s an FGW service with the livery being well after the Eurostar link trains finished. So it will be diverted FGW services which first happened in 2003.

Caption says August Bank Holiday 2004

I'm certain it was a boat train as it was definitely scheduled to be non-stop to Dover Priory but it's quite possible that it went from Victoria.

If it went from Victoria and ended up at Swanley it would have gone straight on at Chislehurst, rather than turn left (which would have taken it through the dive under towards Sevenoaks). Both were regularly used by boat trains, depending on suitable paths being available.

 

[FGWHST43009]

They were run as class 9 workings ( they still are... they just replace the 0 with an O and the 1 with an I in the Eurostar service number to generate an NR compliant headcode within the UK ) to flag them up to the signallers.

That didn't stop an error happening on one occasion where one was famously signalled straight ahead to Victoria instead of turning right across the Stewart's Lane Flyover...

I was watching the cab ride from 2004 where the Eurostar was following a TGV turning out for Arras on the LGV Nord. The slowdown because of this meant that the Eurostar lost its path further up the line on the third rail section near Shortlands and was slowed to a crawl but the signal changed to green so it accelerated again

 

[Sad Sprinter]

There was something about standing at an ordinary suburban station watching the Eurostar run past.

It was truly magical. I'll never forget my childhood trips to Brockwell Park or Clapham High Street and watching a Eurostar glide past.

Shame we complained and bashed ourselves the whole time when we didnt have a high speed line, but we had that.

 

[Man of Kent]

Back on topic, does anyone know if a Eurostar ever ran via Chatham, Canterbury East and Dover Priory, via Chatham, Ramsgate and around the coast, or via Canterbury West, Minster East and South Junctions and the coast? Obviously all three of these routes would have involved a reversal at Saltwood Junction between Sandling and Folkestone to access the Channel Tunnel. I would guess that they could have used any of these routes if there were engineering works between Ashford and Saltwood Jn. Not sure if any Eurostar drivers ever signed any of these routes, though.

Very much suspect the answer is no. If I recall correctly, the substations on the routes used by Eurostar had to be upgraded, which would not have been the case east of Fawkham Junction or on the other sections of route mentioned. Also the Thanet lines have a slightly restricted loading gauge (Mk 3s are banned) so it is possible a Eurostar would have been out of gauge here. And at the time there was mechanical signalling at Canterbury East (and still is at Deal), with which many Eurostar drivers would not have been familiar.