WCML blockade - impact on EMR services? (29/03 - 01/04)

[londonmidland]

Afternoon. With the WCML closed for engineering works between Euston and Milton Keynes Central between the 29th of March and the 1st of April, I was wondering how this would affect EMR services to and from St. Pancras in terms of passenger loadings?

Last time the ECML was shut from Kings Cross, we had horrendous overcrowding issues on EMR services, as well as St. Pancras suffering from long queues and severe overcrowding. Is this something which could be repeated again?

Our services are full and standing at the weekends anyway, without additional pax from other lines, so I can’t see it coping with even more passengers from other lines and services.

 

[Failed Unit]

I am sure the MML will get its share of passengers on certain flows such as London - Stoke / Crewe however there are many others large flows that MML probably doesn't make sense

Would the West Midlands be better using Chiltern?
Normally for Manchester I would go via Leeds in this situation (but as I type I think can TPE get me between Leeds and Manchester)
Going further north then the ECML is probably better.

London - Leeds via Sheffield is the best option when the ECML is closed. In fact anywhere South of York I don't think you would select a route other then MML.

London - Manchester via Sheffield is not much quicker then via Leeds.

 

[LowLevel]

I believe the usual diversion carnage is expected.

 

[The Planner]

Afternoon. With the WCML closed for engineering works between Euston and Milton Keynes Central between the 29th of March and the 1st of April, I was wondering how this would affect EMR services to and from St. Pancras in terms of passenger loadings?

Last time the ECML was shut from Kings Cross, we had horrendous overcrowding issues on EMR services, as well as St. Pancras suffering from long queues and severe overcrowding. Is this something which could be repeated again?

Our services are full and standing at the weekends anyway, without additional pax from other lines, so I can’t see it coping with even more passengers from other lines and services.

Considering the normal plan is bus MK to Bedford, there will be plenty of people moving across to the MML.

 

[londonmidland]

Considering the normal plan is bus MK to Bedford, there will be plenty of people moving across to the MML.

I noticed this in the timetable. However, will that mean that most WCML pax will be using the EMR 'Connect' Corby services as opposed to the Intercity services, which go further north?

 

[The Planner]

I noticed this in the timetable. However, will that mean that most WCML pax will be using the EMR 'Connect' Corby services as opposed to the Intercity services, which go further north?

They'll use whatever services a journey planner tells them to, or the first train to London they see when they get off the bus.

 

[43055]

I noticed this in the timetable. However, will that mean that most WCML pax will be using the EMR 'Connect' Corby services as opposed to the Intercity services, which go further north?

You will probably still get passengers coming up to Derby for the North Staff's to Stoke/Crewe and Sheffield for Manchester/Liverpool.

 

[Trainman40083]

You will probably still get passengers coming up to Derby for the North Staff's to Stoke/Crewe and Sheffield for Manchester/Liverpool.

Noticed many EMR trains to Crewe were four car 170s. Isn't Hope Valley route to Manchester closed too?

 

[43055]

Noticed many EMR trains to Crewe were four car 170s. Isn't Hope Valley route to Manchester closed too?

It is this week. Was quite surprised to see 4/5 cars on RTT yesterday morning.

 

[dosxuk]

MML normally gets swamped when the WCML is closed. Expect the normal St Pancras carnage.

 

[Trainman40083]

It is this week. Was quite surprised to see 4/5 cars on RTT yesterday morning.

I keep putting off travelling by train. It goes from a few days, to a few weeks, to months.

 

[Edvid]

They'll use whatever services a journey planner tells them to, or the first train to London they see when they get off the bus.

For passengers transferring to/from Milton Keynes Central this means the quarter-hourly Thameslink services will be an option at Bedford too, in theory.

Where EMR is concerned their Intercity services to London will make Bedford calls between 0812 and 1130 (and from 2210 going the other way) with Connect services making calls at other times on Easter Sunday according to RTT. On the other days it's Connect services only bar the odd contra-flow.

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure whether this is the right place to ask this but whenever there is Engineering Works between Milton Keynes to London why can't Rail Replacements run between Milton Keynes to London Euston? Why does Rail Replacement always run between Milton Keynes and Bedford?

 

[Megafuss]

Not to sure whether this is the right place to ask this but whenever there is Engineering Works between Milton Keynes to London why can't Rail Replacements run between Milton Keynes to London Euston? Why does Rail Replacement always run between Milton Keynes and Bedford?

Less resource and a more reliable journey time

 

[The Planner]

Not to sure whether this is the right place to ask this but whenever there is Engineering Works between Milton Keynes to London why can't Rail Replacements run between Milton Keynes to London Euston? Why does Rail Replacement always run between Milton Keynes and Bedford?

Where would you run a bus operation from at Euston? Nowhere to hold that many coaches and buses.

 

[dk1]

I believe the usual diversion carnage is expected.

I hope Martin Lewis has done his homework this time.

 

[Bantamzen]

I am sure the MML will get its share of passengers on certain flows such as London - Stoke / Crewe however there are many others large flows that MML probably doesn't make sense

Would the West Midlands be better using Chiltern?
Normally for Manchester I would go via Leeds in this situation (but as I type I think can TPE get me between Leeds and Manchester)
Going further north then the ECML is probably better.

London - Leeds via Sheffield is the best option when the ECML is closed. In fact anywhere South of York I don't think you would select a route other then MML.

London - Manchester via Sheffield is not much quicker then via Leeds.

Don't forget there are also diversions on TPE North that weekend, with all going via the Calder Valley whilst Huddersfield is shut.

 

[Trainman40083]

Where would you run a bus operation from at Euston? Nowhere to hold that many coaches and buses.

And that presumes you would find enough coach operators prepared to work into London, what with congestion and and ultra low emission zones. Not sure there are even that many spare drivers.

 

[DarloRich]

Not to sure whether this is the right place to ask this but whenever there is Engineering Works between Milton Keynes to London why can't Rail Replacements run between Milton Keynes to London Euston? Why does Rail Replacement always run between Milton Keynes and Bedford?

It is a half hour bus journey from MKC to Bedford - you can run a constant shuttle service and have lots of parking space at either end and there are good road connections . It also offers the shortest "non train" option for a replacement. I have used it a few times and it works well.

MKC to Euston by bus ( without diversions to intermediate stations) is several hours. When required replacement bus services do run to Stanmore for LU connections but that also takes AGES!

 

[paul1609]

It is a half hour bus journey from MKC to Bedford - you can run a constant shuttle service and have lots of parking space at either end and there are good road connections . It also offers the shortest "non train" option for a replacement. I have used it a few times and it works well.

MKC to Euston by bus ( without diversions to intermediate stations) is several hours. When required replacement bus services do run to Stanmore for LU connections but that also takes AGES!

A Non Stop Coach from Milton Keynes Central to Stanmore shouldn't take ages. National Express timetable their services from Milton Keynes Coachway to Victoria Coach Station in an average of 2 hours you can knock 30 mins off that for Golders Green. I reckon Stanmore which is just off Junction 4 of the M1 shouldnt be much over an hour from Milton Keynes Central. I find myself increasingly using long distance coach services for the Intercity haul of long journeys as a result of industrial action and being priced off rail. One of the big surprises is just how reliable the coach timetabling is compared to rail. In the past year Ive had 2 journeys that have missed the scheduled arrival by about 20 minutes the majority of journeys arrive a few minutes early.

 

[DarloRich]

A Non Stop Coach from Milton Keynes Central to Stanmore shouldn't take ages. National Express timetable their services from Milton Keynes Coachway to Victoria Coach Station in an average of 2 hours you can knock 30 mins off that for Golders Green. I reckon Stanmore which is just off Junction 4 of the M1 shouldnt be much over an hour from Milton Keynes Central. I find myself increasingly using long distance coach services for the Intercity haul of long journeys as a result of industrial action and being priced off rail. One of the big surprises is just how reliable the coach timetabling is compared to rail. In the past year Ive had 2 journeys that have missed the scheduled arrival by about 20 minutes the majority of journeys arrive a few minutes early.

Google maps gives about an hour by car at a quiet time. I have, honestly, never done it by replacement coach in less than 90 minutes. it is also worth noting that often the rail replacement bus is just that: a town bus or double decker rather than an executive coach

 

[paul1609]

Google maps gives about an hour by car at a quiet time. I have, honestly, never done it by replacement coach in less than 90 minutes. it is also worth noting that often the rail replacement bus is just that: a town bus or double decker rather than an executive coach

I think this just re-inforces Megabuses advertising claim that if your rail journey includes rail replacement buses you are just better off just using the coach for the whole journey. They schedule Finchley Road to Rugby Services (Junction 1 on the M6) in 1 hr 40 mins and this includes a driver change at Watford Gap Services. If your rail journey includes faffing around via Bedford and a boneshaker to Milton Keynes you are far better off getting the coach from London to a Coach head like Manchester Airport (WCML) or Meadowhall (ECML/MML) and then a local train from there. Maybe I should set up a Coach and Traisplit a new website providing bargain travel with no delay repay hassles!

 

[DarloRich]

If your rail journey includes faffing around via Bedford and a boneshaker to Milton Keynes you are far better off getting the coach from London to a Coach head like Manchester Airport (WCML) or Meadowhall (ECML/MML) and then a local train from there.

I don't think normal peopel will go for that! Buses and coaches are for students and plebs after all

The big issue on the rail replacement is the M1. Traffic can be really bad. I have done the coach to Leeds many times and the timetbale is just an idea. Some days it takes 3 hours, some days 6

 

[The Planner]

A Non Stop Coach from Milton Keynes Central to Stanmore shouldn't take ages. National Express timetable their services from Milton Keynes Coachway to Victoria Coach Station in an average of 2 hours you can knock 30 mins off that for Golders Green. I reckon Stanmore which is just off Junction 4 of the M1 shouldnt be much over an hour from Milton Keynes Central. I find myself increasingly using long distance coach services for the Intercity haul of long journeys as a result of industrial action and being priced off rail. One of the big surprises is just how reliable the coach timetabling is compared to rail. In the past year Ive had 2 journeys that have missed the scheduled arrival by about 20 minutes the majority of journeys arrive a few minutes early.

How many coaches can Stanmore hold, it doesn't look like many from Google Streetview?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many coaches can Stanmore hold, it doesn't look like many from Google Streetview?

Enough that WMT do use it (or have used it in the past) for their RRBs. It's not a speculative idea, it's what happens.

 

[paul1609]

How many coaches can Stanmore hold, it doesn't look like many from Google Streetview?

Ive no idea, Id always go by coach, Chiltern or drive!

 

[The Planner]

Enough that WMT do use it (or have used it in the past) for their RRBs. It's not a speculative idea, it's what happens.

I thought they had stopped doing it, maybe not.

 

[LTJ87]

EMR has issued a press release advising that a new queuing system will be in place over Easter, with passengers with reservations taking priority.

Curious to see how this works out on such a narrow concourse.

Travelling with us this Easter? Here are the things to remember

EMR issuing advice to customers who are travelling over the Easter Period Intercity and Connect services likely to be busier than normal due to closure of West Coast Mainline New queuing systems will be in place at St Pancras International - with reservations taking priority Customers...

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

• St Pancras International station will be implementing a new queuing system. Priority boarding will be for customers with reservations, and those without may be required to wait for longer periods of time. Please allow extra time for journeys.
  
  
• Any customers travelling between Leicester and London should choose the Nottingham to London Intercity services rather than the ones that serve Sheffield.
  
  
• Customers travelling to or from Kettering should use EMR Connect rather than Intercity services.
  
  
• Customers travelling to or from Wellingborough should use EMR Connect rather than Intercity services.
  
  
• Customers travelling to/from Luton/Luton Airport Parkway/Bedford – please travel on GTR services.

 

[Trainman40083]

EMR has issued a press release advising that a new queuing system will be in place over Easter, with passengers with reservations taking priority.

Curious to see how this works out on such a narrow concourse.

Travelling with us this Easter? Here are the things to remember

EMR issuing advice to customers who are travelling over the Easter Period Intercity and Connect services likely to be busier than normal due to closure of West Coast Mainline New queuing systems will be in place at St Pancras International - with reservations taking priority Customers...

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

You get the feeling they could do with a new railway, rather sooner than planned to be able to take the crowds.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Other options next year will be from Milton Keynes via Oxford to Paddington and via Bicester Village to Marylebone.