WCML disruption Weds 21 Aug

[AndrewE]

We witnessed the aftermath of "a trespasser on the railway" yet again last Wednesday. Amongst many other 3-hour delays, the 1630 Wigan to Preston and Glasgow (1343 Euston Glasgow via Brum) was terminated at Preston 215 mins late. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P59242/2019/08/21/advanced Luckily we were trying to go south, so didn't suffer too badly, but I feel for people hoping to have caught that train, or others caught up in the disruption.
It now turns out that it was yet another person threatening suicide on (off) an overbridge. The question has to be asked whether a disabling weapon ought to be used in these circumstances to knock the unfortunate individual back to a safe place, given the appalling wider consequences.
Something like a rubber bullet and a quick grabbing while they are down.

 

[MalaiseForever]

You can not be serious?! Jesus wept.

 

[AndrewE]

I was just saying that there might be thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of person-hours of delays, connections missed, maybe even weddings or funerals missed too. Obviously you haven't suffered the consequences of one of these incidents, but when you do please let us know your thoughts.
Maybe you haven't been reading the posts about the similar problems over the last few years, but it is an ongoing problem for the railway and must be undermining its reputation for reliability. It is an unfortunate fact that coping with a threatened suicide seems to shut the railway for far longer than dealing with a successful one (although at least we don't get a traumatised driver too.)
I was just wondering whether we could envisage a way of pushing someone back from the railway that didn't involve shutting a main line, bussing people on other services from Wolverhampton to Crewe or Warrirngton and wrecking so many people's plans.

 

[tom73]

It seems that another human being's emotional anguish and mental turmoil mean nothing to you. A smooth running rail service appears more important to you than human life. This isn't the USA where police arrive in seconds. Everything takes time from the first call to the professionals successfully ending the situation. The delays that seem to cause you so much anguish exist to prevent the possibility of a traumatised driver and a train load of shocked and deeply upset passengers. In real life, delays have a knock on effect with trains in the wrong position for subsequent services to operate to timetable.

 

[CharlesR]

We witnessed the aftermath of "a trespasser on the railway" yet again last Wednesday. Amongst many other 3-hour delays, the 1630 Wigan to Preston and Glasgow (1343 Euston Glasgow via Brum) was terminated at Preston 215 mins late. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P59242/2019/08/21/advanced Luckily we were trying to go south, so didn't suffer too badly, but I feel for people hoping to have caught that train, or others caught up in the disruption.
It now turns out that it was yet another person threatening suicide on (off) an overbridge. The question has to be asked whether a disabling weapon ought to be used in these circumstances to knock the unfortunate individual back to a safe place, given the appalling wider consequences.
Something like a rubber bullet and a quick grabbing while they are down.

This is a rail forum, not a policing initiatives innovation centre.

 

[AndrewE]

I'm not unfeeling, but 40-odd years involvement on the railway (and most recently as a passenger, but very aware of longer-distance passengers' problems) - and at one time having to deal with them after these events - leads me to wonder whether we can be a bit more pro-active and less touchy-feely.
I note that the people jumping down my throat have been active here for less than a year (6 months?) and don't seem to have any understanding of the wider consequences of these events.
How many journeys or family events have Malaiseforever and CharlesR had destroyed by rail failures? How many trains do they even take a week (or a year)?
As I said earlier, "Obviously you haven't suffered the consequences of one of these incidents, but when you do please let us know your thoughts." I note that you didn't answer the question.

 

[flitwickbeds]

I hear that shooting a depressed person or someone with mental health issues with a plastic bullet is really good for their recovery.

 

[AndrewE]

or not, but it would be a lot better for recovering the train service.
41 posts. How many train journeys have you made in the last year - or decade?
Try to imagine the rail professional's job of getting people to where they have bought tickets to... Any better suggestions?

 

[flitwickbeds]

or not, but it would be a lot better for recovering the train service.
41 posts. How many train journeys have you made in the last year - or decade?
Try to imagine the rail professional's job of getting people to where they have bought tickets to... Any better suggestions?

And that gets to the crux of the matter. You care more about trains running on time than other humans going through a hard time.

What makes you think the number of posts and/or the length of time a person has been on these forums links to the number of train journeys made? Not that it makes any difference or is any of your business, but I've made 4 return journeys a week, every week of the year minus annual leave, at different times of the day as a shift worker, for getting on for 20 years. Plus occasional other trips to see family or explore the country.

Ive been caught up in maybe 20 or 30 suicide-related delays in that time, ranging from slow running of the train through the area, to full on cancellations for hours on end. Including in my first week at a new job where I was 3 hours late.

And you know what? I didn't care, and nor did my boss. Because the person who jumped (or is threatening to jump) is more important than disruption to the train network.

 

[MalaiseForever]

or not, but it would be a lot better for recovering the train service.
41 posts. How many train journeys have you made in the last year - or decade?
Try to imagine the rail professional's job of getting people to where they have bought tickets to... Any better suggestions?

I think you need to go away and have a long think about what you are saying here. I have been on a few trains disrupted by a vulnerable person. Every single passenger was calm and understanding of the situation. They certainly weren’t suggesting attacking somebody in such a distressed state.

 

[MalaiseForever]

And that gets to the crux of the matter. You care more about trains running on time than other humans going through a hard time.

What makes you think the number of posts and/or the length of time a person has been on these forums links to the number of train journeys made? Not that it makes any difference or is any of your business, but I've made 4 return journeys a week, every week of the year minus annual leave, at different times of the day as a shift worker, for getting on for 20 years. Plus occasional other trips to see family or explore the country.

Ive been caught up in maybe 20 or 30 suicide-related delays in that time, ranging from slow running of the train through the area, to full on cancellations for hours on end. Including in my first week at a new job where I was 3 hours late.

And you know what? I didn't care, and nor did my boss. Because the person who jumped (or is threatening to jump) is more important than disruption to the train network.

Very well said. Couldn’t agree more.

 

[The Planner]

Indeed, I wasn't aware post scoring or length of membership had some sort of status, can someone ask Andrew Haines or possibly a TOC MD how they rank?

 

[EM2]

The question has to be asked whether a disabling weapon ought to be used in these circumstances to knock the unfortunate individual back to a safe place, given the appalling wider consequences.
Something like a rubber bullet and a quick grabbing while they are down.

One question. How do you ensure that the person is knocked back to a safe place, and doesn't just lose their balance and fall to their death?

 

[AndrewE]

Everyone sits on their hands then.
I don't imagine any of the above dignitaries have the time to waste on here, or even travel by train very much. But the paying public won't put up with it forever.
And announcing "service abandoned because of trespasser" doesn't get the railway any sympathy, however tolerant some people here are. "We are trying to cope with a threatened suicide" would be more honest and gain more understanding, but you don't hear it.
I imagine that no-one here is worried about any financial outcomes either, whether personally in their work or as a long-term consequence fore the viability of the railway.
There is an elephant in the room that we British are too squeamish about discussing and it isn't healthy.

 

[AndrewE]

One question. How do you ensure that the person is knocked back to a safe place, and doesn't just lose their balance and fall to their death?

If you can't get in a position where you can knock them back onto a road bridge or whatever then you don't do it. It's called risk assessment.

 

[ainsworth74]

No this ends here. We're not going to entertain a discussion around whether or not it's okay to shoot people who are having a mental health crisis. This thread is therefore locked.