My point was, I don't think there's any need to pursue tilting train operation on the WCML beyong the eventual withdrawl of the 390s, - once HS2 is operational. The route is generally fast enough for conventional trains to operate the intermediate and regional trains that will be plying the route then.
Is it actually a given that HS2 will see off all the Pendolinos? I'd have thought they would continue to operate but at reduced frequency and with more stops.
So, for example (and without me knowing much about the current calling patterns), you could end up with a WCML classic intercity service of 5tph to/from Euston:
- 1tph Manchester, Macclesfield, Stoke-On-Trent, Stafford, Tamworth, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Euston
- 1tph Liverpool, Runcorn, Crewe, Stafford, Lichfield, Nuneaton, Milton Keynes, Watford Junction, Euston
- 1tph Blackpool/Preston/Glasgow, Wigan, Warrington, Crewe, Stafford, Rugeley, Nuneaton, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Euston
- 1tph Holyhead/Llandudno/Wrexham/Chester, Crewe, Stafford, Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International, Coventry, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Euston
- 1tph Wrexham/Shrewsbury/Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International, Coventry, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Watford Junction, Euston
which would replace the current 9tph from Euston:
- 3tph Euston - Manchester
- 1tph Euston - Liverpool
- 1tph Euston - Glasgow
- 1tph Euston - Chester/Wrexham/Holyhead
- 2tph Euston - Birmingham *
- 1tph Euston - Wolverhampton
- 1tph Birmingham - Edinburgh/Glasgow *
*I know one of the Euston-Birmingham services has been combined with the Birmingham-Scotland service, I just listed them like this to draw attention to my belief that there are two ICWC paths between Birmingham and Woverhampton each hour. Why does the Virgin Trains Wikipeida article only show 1tph between Birmingham and Wolverhampton?
It wouldn't really be viable to run single 5 car bi-mode out of Euston either. With things set to become busier before 2026 not quieter, is there really likely to be any 5 car West Coast Franchise services running out of Euston at all (once the new trains are delivered). I would doubt it.
Given that EMR is getting an all 5-car fleet it wouldn't surprise me if West Coast was getting 5-car bi-modes. But I really hope that's not what it'll be, full-length trains please. Once HS2 reaches Crewe, the possibility of having north Wales to London services run via Birmingham (since passengers for London could change at Crewe for a faster journey on HS2) and thus conveying passengers for both London and Birmingham on the same train between Crewe and Holyhead would help ensure the trains aren't too empty west of Chester.
Is anyone able to do the maths to work out how many bi-mode units would be needed for:
- All existing Holyhead (& Wrexham services to be double sets between Euston/Chester in each direction.
- All existing Chester services to be double set.
- Any extra committed service to or from north Wales to also be a double set between Chester/Euston and added onto the total.
The number of bi-mode sets needed if it were say 5 car sets, and nothing ran as single sets between Euston/Chester and return?
Would 13 do it if Blackpool were covered by new EMUs and were out of the equation?
13x5-car would replace the current 10 units, and allow 3 extra for more workings west of Chester (inc Llandudno) which is badly needed.
What about the Shrewsbury services? They'll need the bi-modes for those as well. Is 13 sets enough to double-up between Euston and Birmingham/Chester on both the Holyhead and Shrewsbury routes?
Anyone thought about Stadler Flirt for the West Coast?
Non-tilting i suppose, unless they build a tilting flirt.
Despite the I in FLIRT standing for 'Intercity' they don't seem to be particularly 'intercity' to me. In fact they don't fit in my black-and-white world of category 'boxes' at all. They can be a step up from Outer Suburban (the GA FLIRTs, with only one set of doors per carriage, seem to have less floor space given over to standing room than a suburban unit with two sets of double-width doors) but presumably the FLIRTs all have toilets in the saloon and no vestibules (maybe I'm wrong on that, having never been on a FLIRT), meaning they don't meet my 'regional' quality critera either.
I cannot see any more tilt trains being ordered. Tilt was much more important when 140 mph was in the offing and strongly suspect that the actual speed gain for given passenger comfort (and it is only comfort - restrcting lateral forces) is modest, much less than the route is currently assessed for.
Rather than comfort, I thought it was that going round WCML curves at speed without tilt would cause rather alot of tea/coffee to be spilt.