WCML Open Access Applications Rejected

[Class 170101]

The problems are that 2tph isn't enough for London to Hemel or Northampton, especially given how urgently HS2 was – is – needed, I don't think replacing slow path services is appropriate for a London to Welsh Borders route, and I don't know if that would cut enough for capacity not to be an issue past Rugby anyway.

I'm confused, thats what Northampton has now 2tph. Hemel to London is 4tph.

Extra services to destinations north of Rugby won't change by reducing services on the slow lines south Milton Keynes.

 

[A S Leib]

I'm confused, thats what Northampton has now 2tph. Hemel to London is 4tph.

I should have said that fewer services to Hemel or Northampton would be too few.

Extra services to destinations north of Rugby won't change by reducing services on the slow lines south Milton Keynes.

Agreed.

 

[Class 170101]

I'm not sure the stopping train down the WCML followed by a glacial trundle round the WLL will attract many people to get to Gatwick that way.

Whilst there is a point at which your argument is true I would point out that direct trains are more popular than where you have to change.

 

[Zomboid]

Whilst there is a point at which your argument is true I would point out that direct trains are more popular than where you have to change.

True, but I would be surprised if the old Southern service would have actually appeared in journey planners for stations north of Watford considering how slow it was (unless you specify via Shepherds Bush as a route). A short hop on the Victoria Line From Euston to Victoria would probably have come out faster.

 

[43074]

West Midlands Trains are in absolutely no position to extend any of their services to either Manchester Airport or Manchester city centre - and won't be for years. That idea will eventually just fade away. I suspect their announcement that they would look at this was little more than a PR exercise during a time Abellio/Transport UK were still hoping to apply pressure to keep TOCs in private hands.

Bold claim - contradicts informed posts earlier on in the thread suggesting Manchester Airport was the more likely of the two to happen, and indeed that it was at quite an advanced stage of development.

 

[A S Leib]

True, but I would be surprised if the old Southern service would have actually appeared in journey planners for stations north of Watford considering how slow it was (unless you specify via Shepherds Bush as a route). A short hop on the Victoria Line From Euston to Victoria would probably have come out faster.

Journey planners would give a 44 minute connection time for Euston to Victoria compared to a five minute minimum between Southern services at Clapham Junction. The National Rail journey planner gives 1:12 for leaving Watford Junction at 12:56 or at least 1:27 via Victoria.

 

[Starmill]

Bold claim - contradicts informed posts earlier on in the thread suggesting Manchester Airport was the more likely of the two to happen, and indeed that it was at quite an advanced stage of development.

They've obviously put some work into modelling it and they obviously believe there's a positive business case.

What there's apparently not is an answer for how to ensure no loss of capacity and journey opportunities for Alderley Edge, Holmes Chapel and Sandbach. It will be impossible to sell the benefits if that involves cutting Sandbach - Crewe down to 1tph and no direct services to Manchester Airport any more, for example.

 

[Watershed]

Bold claim - contradicts informed posts earlier on in the thread suggesting Manchester Airport was the more likely of the two to happen, and indeed that it was at quite an advanced stage of development.

Posts by the user you quoted are often written in authoritative terms, but turn out to not quite reflect the full picture...

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

They've obviously put some work into modelling it and they obviously believe there's a positive business case.

What there's apparently not is an answer for how to ensure no loss of capacity and journey opportunities for Alderley Edge, Holmes Chapel and Sandbach. It will be impossible to sell the benefits if that involves cutting Sandbach - Crewe down to 1tph and no direct services to Manchester Airport any more, for example.

They've done no such thing.

At most, they've had a look if the paths exist in theory, and issued a press release at a very coincidental time that Transport UK was lobbying extensively for private sector involvement in GBR.

There's no business case and no formal application. There's no stock clearance, no traincrew plan, no recruitment to increase headcount, no negotiations on station facility agreements etc.

They may have had some early engagement discussions with Network Rail, which they are required to do prior to submitting an application, which has never arrived months and months after their so called announcement.

Nobody on this forum said that Manchester Airport was more likely -I believe The Planner stated that the paths are essentially possible, but had absolutely no view on the probability of it actually progressing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 minutes ago ==

Posts by the user you quoted are often written in authoritative terms, but turn out to not quite reflect the full picture...

Rubbish, please provide a source that does show the full picture then. Isn't it a forum rule to provide sources for assertions? The lack of any authoritative source should tell you all you need to know about this so called expansion!