WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

[Bletchleyite]

The Daily Telegraph has just caught up with the story, implying that this will be the end of steam trains in Britain

You can always trust the Torygraph for a good bit of clickbait and a total lack of balanced reporting. It's worse than the Mail these days.

 

[Invincible]

Perhaps towing a 156!

The Swanage railway had to use the heritage 117 DMU (with CDL but not used) in a steam train when a brake Mk1 failed in the Victorian weekend.

There is also the 4TC MK1 unit with CDL not currently used by London Underground and available to rent

 

[43096]

There is also the 4TC MK1 unit with CDL not currently used by London Underground and available to rent

Which is already committed to several tours this year.

 

[Chester1]

You can always trust the Torygraph for a good bit of clickbait and a total lack of balanced reporting. It's worse than the Mail these days.

The Telegraph has been forced to pander more and more to core readership as the newspaper market has continued to decline. Unfortunately its core readership are a certain type of pensioner who hates change.

All newspapers do it to some extent. In a previous job a colleague was a focus of an article in The Guardian and it was an eye opener for me. It was a hatchet job, not mentioning key facts and the result of ideological blindness. The Telegraph has deliberately not mentioned WCRs poor safety history because it doesn't fit their narrative. I read both The Guardian and Telegraph in an attempt of balance.

 

[12LDA28C]

The Daily Telegraph has just caught up with the story, implying that this will be the end of steam trains in Britain

Apart from the steam-hauled Jacobite, restarting service next week using 'Black 5' 45212 then...

Planting slanted stories with GB “News” and the Telegraph indicates that WCRC think there’s mileage in making this a culture wars issue.

Standing to benefit if WCRC are -rightly - told to sling their hook are LSL, which as we know is one of the many tax-avoidance vehicles for the nutter who funds anti-woke conspiracy theorist Laurence Fox.

In Private Eye this week there’s a story about the defamation suit that demented anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist Andrew Bridgen MP is bringing against Matt Hancock MP.(*)

PE characterises this as one of those “cases ideally both sides would lose.”

That’s how I now feel about the outcome of this issue. I’m retired, reasonably financially comfortable, and very much in the market for mainline steam excursions. But finding out about the horrible entitled “rules don’t apply to me” idiots who seem to dominate that market means both WCRC & LSL aren’t ever going to see a penny from me, and neither are any preserved railways that host their locos.

(*Andrew Bridgen’s legal costs are, of course, also being bankrolled by Hoskings.)

Not sure what political point you're attempting to make here but the chap's name is Hosking, not Hoskings, Hoskins or any other variant of the name. Might as well get it right.

 

[Rail Quest]

Interesting development. Wonder where this CDL-compliant stock has come from? https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2024/04/scotlands-jacobite-steam-train-services-to-resume.html

Thats an interesting one. Is there potentially more stock at WCRC that is CDL fitted outside from the 'coffin' set being used on tours and the Northern Belle? Perhaps there were a few spare MK2d-f carriages that they've managed to dust down

 

[JJmoogle]

Thats an interesting one. Is there potentially more stock at WCRC that is CDL fitted outside from the 'coffin' set being used on tours and the Northern Belle? Perhaps there were a few spare MK2d-f carriages that they've managed to dust down

I can't find an actual list of exactly what coaches they have that breaks it down easily however from what I have seen I think that's quite likely.

 

[DDB]

I think this quote from the ORR saying that they are still willing to grant a temporary execemption while they fit CDL is very generous of the ORR. I wouldn't if I was them!

“Other charter heritage operators, which use the mainline railway, have made the necessary investment to install central door locking on ‘hinged door’ rolling stock (or have committed to do so over a transition period) and it remains open to WCRC to do the same.”

 

[Trestrol]

More importantly how much has it cost them to hire these carriages. As I would have thought anybody who even knows anything about what's gone on will charge top dollar.

 

[GS250]

Presume if mk2 d-f, they will need a generator van in the rake to provide the ETH?

 

[Wolfie]

I think this quote from the ORR saying that they are still willing to grant a temporary execemption while they fit CDL is very generous of the ORR. I wouldn't if I was them!

Personally l agree. However, given that one of the things that the High Court noted was ORR being consistent across all operators means that treating WCRC differently could cause issues.

 

[JerryHarbottle]

Interesting climb down by leadership of WCR, bringing in a rake of CDL fitted vehicles to start operating from next week. The down turn in income and what appears a turning of support will have no doubt caused a rethink. Plus another party running a service.

I watched the ITV news piece with great interest; thought it was unbalanced with the interviews; interestingly the footage showing a great deal of people leaning out the windows on the Jacobite train at 1m 26s going over Glenfinnan viaduct behind 62005 - where were the stewards.

 

[Greybeard33]

Interesting climb down by leadership of WCR, bringing in a rake of CDL fitted vehicles to start operating from next week. The down turn in income and what appears a turning of support will have no doubt caused a rethink. Plus another party running a service.

The announcement on the WCR website implies that they have assembled another rake of their own Mk2 carriages that are fitted with CDL, rather than hiring some in.

The Jacobite – Back in service!

<p id="isPasted"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><img src="https://wcr-s3.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/gKNS5YEFbkO08fma2NF164iL4gvASPph255dYae6.png" class="fr-fic fr-dib w-full"></p><p id="isPasted"><strong>We are delighted to announce that our world-famous Jacobite service is back up and...

westcoastrailways.co.uk

The team has done an exceptional job in getting a fleet of carriages ready to kick-start our 2024 season.

As our trains will be slightly shorter, with a reduced capacity, this means that unfortunately we might not be able to accommodate all passengers who initially booked.

Presumably the reduced capacity is because the rake will include a diesel loco or generator car to provide the ETH supply.

Edit: clarified that WRC is unlikely to have fitted their Mk1s with CDL.

 

[gabrielhj07]

The announcement on the WCR website implies that they have fitted a rake of their own carriages with CDL, rather than hiring them in.

The Jacobite – Back in service!

<p id="isPasted"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><img src="https://wcr-s3.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/gKNS5YEFbkO08fma2NF164iL4gvASPph255dYae6.png" class="fr-fic fr-dib w-full"></p><p id="isPasted"><strong>We are delighted to announce that our world-famous Jacobite service is back up and...

westcoastrailways.co.uk

Presumably the reduced capacity is because the rake will include a diesel loco or generator car to provide the ETH supply.

If so, it's amazing how easy they've made it look!

 

[D365]

If so, it's amazing how easy they've made it look!

Speaking of making things look easy - maybe one day they’ll have an ETCS locomotive back in service!

 

[nanstallon]

Well, let us rejoice that steam is coming back on the West Highland Extension.

 

[Rail Quest]

I'm assuming today's VSTP move for 45212 to head back to Carnforth may be motivated by today's news? Perhaps this is the chosen loco to make the trip North in the next few days:

Realtime Trains | 0Z45 1457 Keighley & Wvlr to Carnforth Steamtown | 12/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Z45 1457 departure from Keighley & Wvlr to Carnforth Steamtown on 12/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bill57p9]

Thats an interesting one. Is there potentially more stock at WCRC that is CDL fitted outside from the 'coffin' set being used on tours and the Northern Belle? Perhaps there were a few spare MK2d-f carriages that they've managed to dust down

WCRC have a number of Mk2e & f coaches from Southall up for sale currently. I believe they are CDL fitted (ironically) but in poor condition.

WCRC have an STP path from Crianlarich to Tom Na Faire this coming Sunday, presumably to bring the stock in.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U06381/2024-04-14/detailed

 

[Wyrleybart]

The Daily Telegraph has just caught up with the story, implying that this will be the end of steam trains in Britain

They need to sack their researchers and copywriters then don't they. Saphos, LSL and Vintage Trains are all they need to punch into their search engine.

That big blue engine currently running in on the Severn Valley railway has about ten years of work on the main line, or until the coal runs out !!! I reckon there will be a GWR Castle No 5029 next to emerge from the LSL works after 60532.

Clearly a lot of unhappy tourists and business owners in Scotland, which Messrs Smith and Shuttleworth should have considered last Autumn when they cocksuredly though they would get over on the ORR. In the meanwhile LSL took delivery of their latest fully mainlined Mk1 FO 3140.

 

[JJmoogle]

WCRC have a number of Mk2e & f coaches from Southall up for sale currently. I believe they are CDL fitted (ironically) but in poor condition.

I know the ones you're talking about, been past them many times and yes they're CDL fitted, they're all in a right state though(one's fully burnt out) but they haven't been sold just yet so it is possible I suppose that they could have pulled them back off the market and refurbished a couple.

 

[Virgin Voyager]

Some coaching stock recently made their way to Carnforth Steamtown from Burton. One of which was a mk1 generator vehicle in an undercoat ready for a repaint and two of which were CDL fitted Mk2s from one of the Riviera sets. See video:

WCR may have cobbled together a second shorter set of CDL fitted Mk2s or the Mk1 generator may be a sign that they have actually fitted one of their own Mk1 rakes.

 

[Nym]

The Mk.1 generator is non passenger so I wouldn’t read too much into that

 

[12LDA28C]

The announcement on the WCR website implies that they have fitted a rake of their own carriages with CDL, rather than hiring them in.

The Jacobite – Back in service!

<p id="isPasted"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><img src="https://wcr-s3.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/gKNS5YEFbkO08fma2NF164iL4gvASPph255dYae6.png" class="fr-fic fr-dib w-full"></p><p id="isPasted"><strong>We are delighted to announce that our world-famous Jacobite service is back up and...

westcoastrailways.co.uk

Presumably the reduced capacity is because the rake will include a diesel loco or generator car to provide the ETH supply.

I very much doubt that WCRC have recently fitted CDL to any stock. Much more likely they have deep-cleaned or refreshed some CDL-fitted vehicles they already own which have been out of use or in storage. There is a large pool of Mk2 stock in various states of (dis)repair to choose from...

I'm assuming today's VSTP move for 45212 to head back to Carnforth may be motivated by today's news? Perhaps this is the chosen loco to make the trip North in the next few days:

Realtime Trains | 0Z45 1457 Keighley & Wvlr to Carnforth Steamtown | 12/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Z45 1457 departure from Keighley & Wvlr to Carnforth Steamtown on 12/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I already confirmed that in post #1,115...

 

[Rail Quest]

I already confirmed that in post #1,115...

Ah cool, apologies - too many comments to sift through in this thread haha

 

[Greybeard33]

I very much doubt that WCRC have fitted recently CDL to any stock. Much more likely they have deep-cleaned or refreshed some CDL-fitted vehicles they already own which have been out of use or in storage. There is a large pool of Mk2 stock in various states of (dis)repair to choose from...

Indeed. Previous post edited accordingly.

 

[Rail Ranger]

A poster on WNXX is saying that WCRC have hired in a 37/4 to provide ETH and to operate the CDL on the Jacobite. There was no generator van in the consist including 45212.

 

[BrianW]

Ah cool, apologies - too many comments to sift through in this thread haha

I thought this was closing/ closed ... until new news ...haha ...
1,136 posts is some thread to work back through, esp as what's been/being said has indeed been said many times before (apparently)- which is an 'issue' with many a thread on many a Forum. Most folk do have something better to do than scroll all day ; but note the number of 'messages' some Forumite veterans and Established members have usefully contributed.

 

[peteb]

A poster on WNXX is saying that WCRC have hired in a 37/4 to provide ETH and to operate the CDL on the Jacobite. There was no generator van in the consist including 45212.

That's a shame the train will have to have a diesel on the rear but I guess better to run the train with Aircon stock than not at all. Won't be the "Harry Potter" train though, so that interest stream might wane.....?

 

[Brissle Girl]

Yes, I don't get this assumption that all 100 need to be upgraded. Just enough to reinstate the Jacobite and get the revenue from that, get the cash flow going, then work on an appropriate number of carriages for charter work.

This is such a key point that I don’t understand why it hasn’t been made earlier. You only need to do a fraction of the overall fleet to make the Jacobite stock compliant, and at 30k per vehicle it would cost much less than WCR state themselves the service makes in profit in a year. And then how many other vehicles would be needed for, say, two rakes for other main line work - certainly nothing like the 100+ vehicles quoted as needing conversion.

 

[Robin Procter]

The Swanage railway had to use the heritage 117 DMU (with CDL but not used) in a steam train when a brake Mk1 failed in the Victorian weekend.

.... And the DMU hence became an excellent set of observation cars, better than standard carriages, through the beautiful Purbeck Hills countryside. Various steam locos at Swanage were in service hauling the DMU throughout the weekend. Swanage are not the first Heritage Railway to do this.

Belmond run very regular Luxury Pullman carriages on the mainline behind either diesel Class 67s or steam locos. These luxurious carriages are old, do they comply with ORR's latest regs?

That's a shame the train will have to have a diesel on the rear but I guess better to run the train with Aircon stock than not at all. Won't be the "Harry Potter" train though, so that interest stream might wane.....?

.... It's usual for a diesel loco to run as rear gunner on a steam charter train on the mainline. Regardless of aircon etc it is there for support in case of steam loco failure. Sometimes WCRC run a Class 47 (in their livery) as a shadow on a path about 10 minutes behind in case it is needed. The diesel loco can also assist in shunting while the steam loco goes off for more coal and water or to a turntable or loop to then face smokebox first on the return journey.