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WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

Wolfie

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This is on the WCRC website regarding thier issues with the ORR:
Carefully ignoring:
1. That the exemptions granted to other operators are on the basis of a plan to fit CDL;
2. That they lost their exemption because they were not properly complying with the very same mitigation that they cite.

A bunch of arrogant cowboys who deserve to suffer.

Seems to me like they've omitted a few key points from that statement whilst portraying themselves as the victim.
The stench of male bovine excrement is overwhelming....
 
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Wolfie

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Can any regulator force WCRC to be more honest in their press releases?
Nope, the best that they could do is to publicly challenge any particularly egregious comment. It almost seems intended to provoke an ill-considered response that WCRC can argue proves their accusations of unfairness.
 

RGM654

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CDL on the Mk IIs prevents a passenger from opening a door at the wrong time. But what prevents that passenger from walking through the gangway to a Mk I and opening that door?
 

Bletchleyite

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CDL on the Mk IIs prevents a passenger from opening a door at the wrong time. But what prevents that passenger from walking through the gangway to a Mk I and opening that door?

It being locked with a T key I suspect.

But even if it's bolts, a passenger can open any train door using the egress anyway. It doesn't need to be better than that.
 

43096

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Do the slam door egress have to interlock with the emergency brakes like they do on modern trains?
No. It wasn’t part of the BR spec for CDL in the first place and hasn’t been retro-fitted. There’s no cabling for it between the stock and the loco*.

* with two exceptions that I know of, but even then it is only for monitoring and there’s no interlock.
 

BRX

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Isn't part of the attraction of a steam train that you can enjoy the sounds and smells of the loco?

Travelling in an AC type carriage behind a steam engine holds little appeal for me. In the past of course you could choose to stand by an open droplight but now this is effectively banned. At least on a Mk1 (or the early Mk2 versions) you can have the sliding lights above the general carriage windows open.

Being made to sit in a sealed can makes a 156 seem relatively appealing...
 

ainsworth74

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Isn't part of the attraction of a steam train that you can enjoy the sounds and smells of the loco?
I've been on mainline steam charters made up Mk1s, once you're more than a couple of carriages back you can't hear much, if anything, over the sound of the carriages themselves let alone the smell of steam. I think this "but punters will want to be able to hear the train!" idea is oversold.
 

Bill57p9

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Carefully ignoring:

2. That they lost their exemption because they were not properly complying with the very same mitigation that they cite.
In the interests of being factually correct (cf. Stooping to the level of the WCRC article), the Jacobite received a prohibition notice for failing to comply with their own mitigation, rather than having their exemption revoked.

WCR has not been granted the same exemption as these other operators
That is probably because, as far as we know, WCR have not applied for the same exemption as other operators, i.e. either restricted to 25mph or with a plan to fit CDL.

having a steward present in each carriage, is far safer than having to spend millions of pounds to fit CDL.
I can't help thinking that putting safety and money in the same sentence could prove to be a misstep.

Exemption: WCR have requested (and fully expected to receive, as other operators have), a temporary exemption, whilst the ORR considered it’s full application.
Didn't mention that WCR already had a temporary exemption last year...
 
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Isn't part of the attraction of a steam train that you can enjoy the sounds and smells of the loco?
Pretty sure this has been discussed upthread already, but that's undoubtedly part of the attraction for some, especially within the railway enthusiast fraternity, but many Jacobite passengers don't really fit that mould and are keener on the loose affiliation with a certain movie franchise rather than anything more authentic....
 

Invincible

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Pretty sure this has been discussed upthread already, but that's undoubtedly part of the attraction for some, especially within the railway enthusiast fraternity, but many Jacobite passengers don't really fit that mould and are keener on the loose affiliation with a certain movie franchise rather than anything more authentic....
Can see why WCR wlll want to get the "Harry Potter" Mk1 carriages reinstated, but looks like they will have to fit CDL.
As well as the film enthusiasts, many tourists will just want to see the views, and probably won't mind a Mk2 carriage.
 

Meerkat

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i Would guess the jacobite punters would prefer AC, quiet, and no draunts.
 

Wolfie

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In the interests of being factually correct (cf. Stooping to the level of the WCRC article), the Jacobite received a prohibition notice for failing to comply with their own mitigation, rather than having their exemption revoked.


That is probably because, as far as we know, WCR have not applied for the same exemption as other operators, i.e. either restricted to 25mph or with a plan to fit CDL.


I can't help thinking that putting safety and money in the same sentence could prove to be a misstep.


Didn't mention that WCR already had a temporary exemption last year...
Thank you for your precision. The more that the detail is exposed the worse that those shysters look....
 

Meole

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Thank you for your precision. The more that the detail is exposed the worse that those shysters look....
A restriction to 25mph is obviously not possible for mainline, its the refusal to accept CDL as inevitable that's the issue, the other rival steam tour operators have accepted the requirement and arguably would have a competitive case for compensation if one operator was allowed to flout long term.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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I've been on mainline steam charters made up Mk1s, once you're more than a couple of carriages back you can't hear much, if anything, over the sound of the carriages themselves let alone the smell of steam. I think this "but punters will want to be able to hear the train!" idea is oversold.

It very much depends on the locomotive. When I took the Jacobite several years ago, we were seated in the 6th coach of 7 on the outward run and could clearly hear the engine (Gresley K1) working hard on the gradients, particularly the 1:48 climb up to Beasdale. Black 5s are similarly loud, if not louder.
 

Bikeman78

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It very much depends on the locomotive. When I took the Jacobite several years ago, we were seated in the 6th coach of 7 on the outward run and could clearly hear the engine (Gresley K1) working hard on the gradients, particularly the 1:48 climb up to Beasdale. Black 5s are similarly loud, if not louder.
Going up Hemerdon bank I could easily hear Tangmere from the ninth coach. There is a spectacular video on YouTube of Nunney Castle making a very loud slow ascent. No doubt that could be heard throughout the train.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Going up Hemerdon bank I could easily hear Tangmere from the ninth coach. There is a spectacular video on YouTube of Nunney Castle making a very loud slow ascent. No doubt that could be heard throughout the train.
They’re not the loudest locos but a Bulleid Pacific going full bore up a steep gradient is a sight to behold!
 

Cowley

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Right. Now let’s not stray too far off the path here…

Back to the Jacobite shenanigans please. ;)
 

eldomtom2

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Their paths require separate sets: the afternoon path departs Fort William 1250, whilst the morning run doesn't get back until 1603.
The afternoon trip used to depart later, but still before the morning return.
So what were they using for the afternoon service between the restarting of services and the 6th of May?
 

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