WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

[Bill57p9]

So what were they using for the afternoon service between the restarting of services and the 6th of May?

I may have misunderstood the question here, or I may not have been clear.
WCRC have always required two rakes (and locos) to provide both daily Jacobite services.
Currently only the morning service is running - and that is as planned for this time of year.
My other comment was that in years gone by the "afternoon" service was even later, but still required a second train.

(Warning: speculative) An obvious potential solution would be to seek alternative timings to allow one train to run both services.

 

[30907]

(Warning: speculative) An obvious potential solution would be to seek alternative timings to allow one train to run both services.

The problem being that the business owners of Mallaig want the passengers to spend a fair time in their village, while said passengers want a trip between breakfast and high tea, which leads to the present 6hr round trip and 2-train timetable.

(Also speculative: I suppose they could rejig the service to be one way Jacobite and one way by "normal" train, but I am not sure the Scotrail service could cope.

 

[renegademaster]

Are west coast still planning on canceling their summer railway touring company tours? Looking at the July White Rose

 

[Christmas]

That maybe a second reason for the mixed formation, would give a little bit of a draft at least as you say.

*Draught

 

[Rail Ranger]

Railway Touring Company trip from Piccadilly to Holyhead with Bahamas on Saturday 25th May now re-dated to Saturday 28th September: https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-mancunian-05-05-24
Presumably in the hope that WCRC will have an exemption by then and Bahamas will be able to haul the train?

 

[1Q18]

Railway Touring Company trip from Piccadilly to Holyhead with Bahamas on Saturday 25th May now re-dated to Saturday 28th September: https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-mancunian-05-05-24
Presumably in the hope that WCRC will have an exemption by then and Bahamas will be able to haul the train?

Maybe that, and maybe also by late September the questionable air conditioning will be less of an issue if they do need to use the Mk2 set!

 

[renegademaster]

Maybe that, and maybe also by late September the questionable air conditioning will be less of an issue if they do need to use the Mk2 set!

I just got an email from them advertising a June tour , wouldn't think they would be doing so if they had West Coast moving tours due to the heat.

 

[12LDA28C]

Railway Touring Company trip from Piccadilly to Holyhead with Bahamas on Saturday 25th May now re-dated to Saturday 28th September: https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-mancunian-05-05-24
Presumably in the hope that WCRC will have an exemption by then and Bahamas will be able to haul the train?

I would suggest another exemption is very unlikely

 

[Rail Quest]

Railway Touring Company trip from Piccadilly to Holyhead with Bahamas on Saturday 25th May now re-dated to Saturday 28th September: https://www.railwaytouring.net/the-mancunian-05-05-24
Presumably in the hope that WCRC will have an exemption by then and Bahamas will be able to haul the train?

Have they provided any reason for the cancellation anywhere? Can't see a Facebook post or anything, perhaps one is imminent.

This seems to have come out of no where. No tour seemed to be happening at the same time so the coffin stock should be available and the tour was fully booked according to RTC on a previous Facebook post (attached picture shows RTC responding to a Facebook user, confirming the tour was fully booked).

I wonder if this has something to do with Bahamas being allocated to the tour. Isn't this loco Vacuum braking only? (EDIT: yes this is implied by the quoted post, didn't read that bit first time round )

 

[Essan]

The problem being that the business owners of Mallaig want the passengers to spend a fair time in their village, while said passengers want a trip between breakfast and high tea, which leads to the present 6hr round trip and 2-train timetable.

(Also speculative: I suppose they could rejig the service to be one way Jacobite and one way by "normal" train, but I am not sure the Scotrail service could cope.

I thought when they first started running a 2nd service - some years ago now - it was more of an evening run. May be mistaken, but I am sure it ran later than the 2nd run does (or should do) these days. It should be possible to do that using just one loco and coach set, with, say, a 5pm(ish) departure from the Fort (crossing with the early evening Scotrail service from Mallaig at Arisaig) and an 8pm(ish) return departure.

Using Scotrail for one direction wouldn't be possible - the daytime services are standing room only as it is in summer.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

When I caught the Jacobite about 13 years ago, we did the morning run and we crossed the afternoon train at Glenfinnan on the way back. If the second train is now pathed earlier, is it potentially crossing at Arisaig? (The Scotrail service crosses the returning morning train at Mallaig.)

 

[Essan]

When I caught the Jacobite about 13 years ago, we did the morning run and we crossed the afternoon train at Glenfinnan on the way back. If the second train is now pathed earlier, is it potentially crossing at Arisaig? (The Scotrail service crosses the returning morning train at Mallaig.)

Yes, the afternoon service gets in to Mallaig at 3pm now, so must cross with the morning service at Arisaig.

 

[mbh]

Travelled on 10:15 Jacobite departure from Fort William today (15th May) , there did not appear to any air conditioning, but the windows were open in the carriage doors , with a steward in each pair of ends. It was unpleasantly warm and very little engine noice or smell of smoke.





All afternoon departures from Fort William are currently cancelled.



As I travel as part of organised coach hoilday only got a one way journey.



As demand is out stripping availability I can’t see any improvement, but it didn’t come across to me as a premium service. It’s also surprising how well West Coast have convinced the tour operators it’s not their fault they can’t run some trains but the nasty people from ORR.

 

[12LDA28C]

As demand is out stripping availability I can’t see any improvement, but it didn’t come across to me as a premium service. It’s also surprising how well West Coast have convinced the tour operators it’s not their fault they can’t run some trains but the nasty people from ORR.

I don't think the Jacobite has ever really been marketed as a 'premium service', it's more about the steam haulage and the scenery than the facilities on board the train.

 

[Bikeman78]

I don't think the Jacobite has ever really been marketed as a 'premium service', it's more about the steam haulage and the scenery than the facilities on board the train.

Running supposedly air con coaches with no air con has to be a new low though. A 156 sounds more appealing. Still, if WCRC are able to turn a profit from selling a mediocre experience, good luck to them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Running supposedly air con coaches with no air con has to be a new low though.

To be fair when was the last time Mk2 aircon worked even if it did have power? It makes 158 aircon look good. These older systems really suffered from the abolition of CFC use.

 

[12LDA28C]

Running supposedly air con coaches with no air con has to be a new low though. A 156 sounds more appealing. Still, if WCRC are able to turn a profit from selling a mediocre experience, good luck to them.

Unless an ETH-fitted loco is provided and crewed for train supply, or a genny van is in the consist, there's zero chance of any air con. Not really a problem on cooler days but not much fun when it's warm outside, of course.

To be fair when was the last time Mk2 aircon worked even if it did have power? It makes 158 aircon look good. These older systems really suffered from the abolition of CFC use.

I've been in plenty of Mk2s in recent years where the air con worked just fine although there have been a few exceptions, notably on a Riviera Trains rake in which portable fans were commandeered in a rather unsuccessful attempt to provide some air flow.

 

[Bikeman78]

Unless an ETH-fitted loco is provided and crewed for train supply, or a genny van is in the consist, there's zero chance of any air con.

That was exactly my point. But most of their business is probably a one off trip so, as long as people keep coming, WCRC don't really care.

To be fair when was the last time Mk2 aircon worked even if it did have power? It makes 158 aircon look good. These older systems really suffered from the abolition of CFC use.

The mark 3 did okay right up to the end in and out of Paddington. To be fair, it's been less good in recent years. No idea why.

 

[anothertyke]

That was exactly my point. But most of their business is probably a one off trip so, as long as people keep coming, WCRC don't really care.

I'd have thought the opposite. Most of RTC and WCR's business is probably direct to end customers like you and me. The Jacobite is not like that. When I travelled on it my impression is that a lot of the train was people on coach tours. If that clientele are unhappy, WCR are going to hear about it from the operators.

 

[davido39]

How many people fell out of slam door rolling stock in the over 100 years that said rolling stock was the norm?

 

[Darandio]

How many people fell out of slam door rolling stock in the over 100 years that said rolling stock was the norm?

Lots. But what point are you trying to make?

 

[AM9]

How many people fell out of slam door rolling stock in the over 100 years that said rolling stock was the norm?

It doesn't matter how many. It is recognised as an unnecessary safety risk.

 

[Falcon1200]

How many people fell out of slam door rolling stock in the over 100 years that said rolling stock was the norm?

Plenty of people did, so much so that BR had to introduce CDL......

 

[anothertyke]

Plenty of people did, so much so that BR had to introduce CDL......

Not BR, they were not eliminated until 2005. See other threads on this site.

 

[Darandio]

Not BR, they were not eliminated until 2005. See other threads on this site.

Surely that's why the post says 'introduce'?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Tamworth triangle anyone?

 

[anothertyke]

Surely that's why the post says 'introduce'?

OK with you now.

 

[Falcon1200]

Not BR, they were not eliminated until 2005. See other threads on this site.

It was most certainly BR who introduced CDL as a direct result of people falling to their death through slam doors.

 

[Carlisle]

It was most certainly BR who introduced CDL as a direct result of people falling to their death through slam doors.

Indeed, I remember seeing one of the first Inter City Mk3 coaches being fitted with them around early 1994 .