Weekly capping for keyGo starting 29 April

[Haywain]

What would it see as the cheapest fare, then?

It depends. The fare charged is the cheapest appropriate fare or combination of single fares for the overall (return) journey taken, excluding split tickets or those that may be cheaper for a longer journey than has been taken. All I am saying is that it doesn't discount the peak contactless fare (other than for disabled railcards, I guess) and that may mean that a discounted "paper" single is cheaper than an undiscounted contactless fare at certain times of day. This is no different to the decision over whether two singles are cheaper than a return or not.

KeyGo seems more a case of pay first, then we'll tell you what we charged you (but we may or may not be able to explain how we arrived at that amount)? Am I being unfair?

You are being unfair. You do not pay upfront, and the amount charged is explained and available on the website the following day after payment has been processed.

Is the idea that it charges you either for the cheapest ticket or the Contactless fare, whichever is cheaper?

As explained above.

Or if you make multiple journeys it should charge the zonal Contactless cap

To the best of my knowledge, the contactless cap is not applied, and there is no reason it should be as you are not using contactless. KeyGo charges you for the ticket.

or the weekly season ticket rate,

Details of weekly capping for KeyGo can be found in various places. I have not read up on it as the chances of it being relevant to me are vanishingly small.

 

[Edvid]

Is the idea that it charges you either for the cheapest ticket or the Contactless fare, whichever is cheaper? Or if you make multiple journeys it should charge the zonal Contactless cap or the weekly season ticket rate, whichever is cheaper?

In addition you can use keyGo on Brighton & Hove / Metrobus services (within town zones only) and benefit from day caps / PlusBus where appropriate. Here's my journey history from earlier this month, as an example:


I was curious to find out if my Network Railcard would discount the Gatwick-Croydon PAYG fares but was charged for a (cheaper) day return instead.

 

[MrJeeves]

I wonder if keyGo accounts for bus tap times when determining whether to discount PlusBus with the Network Railcard.

 

[Watershed]

To the best of my knowledge, the contactless cap is not applied, and there is no reason it should be as you are not using contactless

Isn't KeyGo advertised as matching contactless fares?

 

[Haywain]

Isn't KeyGo advertised as matching contactless fares?

I don't believe it is. The Thameslink website says this:

Add keyGo to your Key Smartcard to get the best day fares available on the day of travel, and weekly capping, for your pay as you go journeys.

which only refers to weekly capping, and this:

we will automatically calculate the best value daily or weekly fare based on the journeys you have made

While the latter could be interpreted as suggesting that a cap might be used, I think that would be a bit of a stretch given the failure to use that wording. In reality, anyone looking to benefit from contactless capping is probably better off using contactless. I suspect that if multiple journeys were made between East Croydon and Elstree, for example, they would be charged at the Travelcard rate but that is just a guess, and I'm not about to test it!

 

[redreni]

You are being unfair. You do not pay upfront, and the amount charged is explained and available on the website the following day after payment has been processed.

Right, so the sequence of events has payment occurring before the customer is told what the fare is.

I realise payment occurs after travel rather than before - in fact, that's partly what concerns me. While I appreciate people value the ease of convenience of a system that lets them tap and jump straight on without having to buy a ticket, it does mean that if the price is higher than the customer expects, they are denied the opportunity to consider other options in the light of that knowledge before they travel. I appreciate it's much less of an issue for regular travellers as they will quickly come to know what the fares are and what they should expect, but I do regard it as a drawback of the system.

And I don't get why you can't have a price check function where you can log into your KeyGo account, plan a journey and the system can tell you whether you can use KeyGo for that journey and what the fare would be, before you decide whether to so so? Maybe this exists and I just don't see it because I don't have KeyGo?

For instance, I'm looking at a return journey from Slade Green to East Croydon on Saturday week with a Network Railcard and the Thameslink website is showing me fares of £11.95 on an itinerary via London Bridge. There's also a Route Not London day return fare of £7.90. Those are for tickets. Meanwhile the undiscounted Contactless fare is £5 each way irrespective of the route taken.

Presumably I could only use KeyGo for this journey if I stuck to Thameslink services, but if I did, would I get a third off the £5 Contactless fares? Is there any way to find out without doing it? Because if not, it would be better to get a ticket (either the Not London ticket or pay overdistance to get an off-peak return route Not HS1). Surely I can't be the only person who wishes to know if a product or service is cheaper or more expensive than the alternatives before deciding if I wish to buy it?

 

[Haywain]

Presumably I could only use KeyGo for this journey if I stuck to Thameslink services

Yes.

would I get a third off the £5 Contactless fares?

It would appear so, but I don't use a Network Railcard so cannot say with absolute certainty.

Is there any way to find out without doing it?

No.

Because if not, it would be better to get a ticket

In which case get a ticket.

I realise payment occurs after travel rather than before - in fact, that's partly what concerns me. While I appreciate people value the ease of convenience of a system that lets them tap and jump straight on without having to buy a ticket, it does mean that if the price is higher than the customer expects, they are denied the opportunity to consider other options in the light of that knowledge before they travel. I appreciate it's much less of an issue for regular travellers as they will quickly come to know what the fares are and what they should expect, but I do regard it as a drawback of the system.

Ultimately, whether you use it or not is a matter of choice and you are able to make that choice based not only on the information the GTR provides but also that which users are providing here. Whilst I use keyGo I don't use it exclusively as circumstances might dictate otherwise. Yesterday I travelled into London and bought an eTicket so that I could also use the services of another operator. There are journeys I might make where the fares to the actual destination may not be the cheapest according to the times I travel and if that's the case I'll take the certainty of buying a ticket in paper or eTicket form. Ultimately, I don't know of any system that can be considered as perfect so it's down to personal choice which to use, and when it suits me I'm happy to use keyGo.

 

[redreni]

[Is there any way to find out without doing it?]

No.

Yeah, personally I don't think a well-regulated industry would operate like that, or be allowed to. As you say, it's a choice.

I'm not against KeyGo per se, but it shouldn't be necessary to wait until they're nationalised and then FOI them in order to find out what fares they charge.

 

[Haywain]

Yeah, personally I don't think a well-regulated industry would operate like that,

What, charging you less than the advertised fare? Because the only part that isn't available is the combination of fares that will be charged, because they depend on exactly what you do, and whether you will receive a discount on a fare that isn't given a discount under any other circumstances.

 

[redreni]

What, charging you less than the advertised fare? Because the only part that isn't available is the combination of fares that will be charged, because they depend on exactly what you do, and whether you will receive a discount on a fare that isn't given a discount under any other circumstances.

The advertised fare for a journey on Thameslink via London Bridge is irrelevant to me as that's not a fare I need to, or wish to, pay. I only want to take that route and restrict myself to Thameslink if it's cheaper than the alternatives I described above (which are not part of KeyGo's calculations as the Not London fare requires using other operators' services and the other fare is overdistance).

I don't think it's a niche thing to want to know a price in advance so as to be able to compare it with something else other than what GTR would charge for a ticket to make the exact same journey by the exact same route. Depending on the journey, I might be comparing against sharing an Uber or taking a bus, or against going somewhere else entirely.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

To the best of my knowledge, the contactless cap is not applied, and there is no reason it should be as you are not using contactless. KeyGo charges you for the ticket.

It might cap at a One Day Travelcard price though, if there's an appropriate one and the travel matches the rules. I've seen SWR's do that.

[Network Railcard discount]

It would appear so, but I don't use a Network Railcard so cannot say with absolute certainty.

If the fare is defined with a Railcard discount, I'd have thought it would work. Within London. they're not

 

[Vexed]

If the fare is defined with a Railcard discount, I'd have thought it would work. Within London. they're not

My understanding is that just like Oyster PAYG fares can't have the Network Railcard applied, keyGo won't apply the Network Railcard to (Oyster or contactless-only) PAYG fares. Or Zonal fares as Thameslink calls them in the journey history.

I've made identical journeys with my mum from St Albans to London at the weekend, where I get a 16-25 Railcard discounted off peak PAYG fare and she gets a Network Railcard discounted Super Off Peak Single. Only about a pound between them.

 

[redreni]

My understanding is that just like Oyster PAYG fares can't have the Network Railcard applied, keyGo won't apply the Network Railcard to (Oyster or contactless-only) PAYG fares. Or Zonal fares as Thameslink calls them in the journey history.

I've made identical journeys with my mum from St Albans to London at the weekend, where I get a 16-25 Railcard discounted off peak PAYG fare and she gets a Network Railcard discounted Super Off Peak Single. Only about a pound between them.

That's really useful to know - thanks! No need for me to acquire a Key Smartcard or use KeyGo, then .

 

[MrJeeves]

My understanding is that just like Oyster PAYG fares can't have the Network Railcard applied, keyGo won't apply the Network Railcard to (Oyster or contactless-only) PAYG fares. Or Zonal fares as Thameslink calls them in the journey history.

I've made identical journeys with my mum from St Albans to London at the weekend, where I get a 16-25 Railcard discounted off peak PAYG fare and she gets a Network Railcard discounted Super Off Peak Single. Only about a pound between them.

I believe keyGo does discount PAYG fares with Network Railcards. See this post from a while ago where someone received the Oyster fare with Network Railcard discount between Gatwick and St Pancras:

I got charged the TfL fare with a railcard discount (£5.75) when travelling from Gatwick to St Pancras using KeyGo. I normally use contactless for this journey, breaking journey at East Croydon if I am not in a rush to save money, but because it was Sunday I thought it would be worth using KeyGo as I would be getting the Network Railcard discount over the cheaper weekend fare. So I was surprised to be charged the same as contactless but with a railcard discount, so cheaper than the railcard discounted paper ticket. In the account it was referred to as a 'Zonal Off-Peak Single'.

I wonder if this may have changed, or whether it only applies to some areas (Oyster only?).

 

[Vexed]

I wonder if this may have changed, or whether it only applies to some areas (Oyster only?).

Definitely possible.

 

[Richardr]

I had a Network card registered with my key card up to about a year ago, I only used it on a pay as you go basis [KeyGo] and it applied the discount as expected.

 

[paul1609]

Yes, though I believe there's an initial waiting period between adding the Railcard to your keyGo account and the discount being applied. It was 5 working days in the previous T&Cs but it's not mentioned in the current iteration (which says Railcards will be manually verified before the discount is enabled).

It took 90 minutes for my Veterans Railcard to be activated on keygo including email confirmation.