I can't see why they have a through service to Caernarfon/Porthmadog from Amlwch but not from anywhere east of Bangor; and no increase from 0.5tph on the Cambrian Coast. Based on the long-term aspiration for 5tph off-peak (6tph peak) between Chester and Llandudno Junction and 5tph between Llandudno Junction and Bangor, I'd suggest something more like:
- 2tph Chester* - Llandudno (all stops), plus a 3rd train per hour in the peaks
- 1tph Chester* - Holyhead (all existing stations)
- 1tph Chester* - Holyhead (calling at Flint, Rhyl, Llandudno Junction and Bangor only)
- 0.5tph Chester* - Caernarfon/Porthmadog (calling at Flint, Preastatyn, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Y Felinheli)
- 0.5tph Chester* - Caernarfon/Porthmadog (calling at Shotton, Flint, Preastatyn, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Conwy, Bangor and Y Felinheli)
- 1tph Holyhead - Llandudno (all stops)
- 1tph Amlwch - Llandudno (all stops)
- 0.5tph Amlwch - Caernarfon/Porthmadog (all stops)
- 0.5tph Amlwch - Caernarfon/Pwllheli (all stops)
- 0.5tph Pwllheli - Birmingham International (all stops west of Shrewsbury)
- 0.5tph Bangor/Porthmadog - Newtown (limited stop via Cambrian Coast, and possibly extended to Birmingham International, Wrexham General (via Oswestry) or Brecon (via Mid Wales Line))
* All services to/from Chester would start back from elsewhere, I'd suggest 1tph Liverpool (calling points as now, plus Frodsham and Helsby if any current services omit them), 2tph Manchester (one all-stops west of Newton-Le-Willows as-now, the other calling at Warrington Bank Quay only) and 2tph from Crewe (with one starting back from Birmingham, perhaps itself starting back from London post-HS2) with the peak-extra being the existing second slow Manchester. Three times per day (each way) the fast Holyhead path would run to/from Cardiff instead of Crewe/Manchester, providing Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner 'WAG Expresses'.
2tph on the Conwy Valley, just wait while I go into fits of laughter.
1tp2h clockface should be achievable, though, and would be very desirable because a properly integrated Snowdon Sherpa bus network would be easier to connect to it at Betws. It could just about be done with one unit with some speed upgrades if it didn't run past the Junction. However, for a through service to Llandudno on present timings I *think* it would need an extra loop.
If you are going clockface every two hours then you would not be maintaining present timings anyway (unless by 'present timings' you mean journey time not the times the trains leave each station). As far as I can tell, with two units you could absolutely do a clockface service every two hours between Llandudno and Blaenau Ffestiniog passing at North Llanrwst although on the timetable I quickly knocked up to prove it to myself the units would be sat idle at each end for 50 minutes. Not sure if the 50 minutes at the Blaenau Ffestiniog end would be enough time to extend to Trawsfynydd.
So they want the Holyhead / Cardiff service to omit Chester, which probably serves as many passengers as the combination of numbers from most of the other stations between Holyhead & Shrewsbury ??
The map shows said services callinng at Shotton. If such a chord is possible, I'd say it would make more sense to divert one of the two Wrexham Central services each hour to somewhere like Rhyl and leave the Cardiff services going to Chester. I'd also put in a single-track north-to-west chord at Shotton (with a platform on the chord) and have a Bidston to Chester service once per hour, so the Borderlands line retains the planned 2tph throughout but with only 1tph between Wrexham and Bidston since the other train on each half would turn off at Shotton.
Bangor to Porthmadog, Trawsfynydd, Amlwch would all be reopenings, not new lines
ISTR the proposal is part new-build at the southern end, following the A487 from Bryncir into Porthmadog rather than taking the detour via Afon Wen.
To be fair, that is described as "possible" which in the context of the other proposals I would translate into English as "even less likely than some of the rest."
That said, Llandudno-Bangor-Caernarfon or variants thereon would be good.
OT - good thing Aberystwyth and Carmarthen aren't in North Wales
It does show Criccieth to the west which implies 30907 is correct that the line would be a new route south of Bryncir. I am VERY glad of that, it makes so much more sense to go direct to Porthmadog than to detour via Afon Wen. OT: there is
a south Wales map too (please start a new topic, and send me a link, if you want to discuss that); Carmarthen-Aberystwyth doesn't appear.
...a frequent Wrexham - Chester service is again a line with enough demand to sustain a frequent bus service where the train service is limited to only long distance trips...
Rail is in theory stronger on long-distance; buses can stop at every lampost and accelerate back to their (relatively low) top speed than a 90-100mph train. That said, I do think there's potential to do more with Wrexham-Chester. The single track is an issue, with pathing of long-distance trains restricted by having to slot in on busy routes elsewhere. I therefore look at the south-facing bay platforms at Wrexham General and wonder how they could be used; terminating Birmingham and/or Cardiff trains there would allow Chester-Wrexham to be relatively self-contained. You could then put in some points to allow trains from Chester to go into Wrexham Central and/or have Chester to Wrexham services continue to Oswestry. Ideally there would still be 1tph between Chester and Shrewsbury (carrying on to Cardiff or Birmingham), calling at Gobowen, Chirk, Ruabon and Wrexham General, plus three Holyhead-Cardiff expresses each day calling at Wrexham General only.
We've already had the "WAG Express" omitting Hereford (despite finding time to stop at Colwyn Bay etc) - I don't know how much more obvious Cardiff Bay has to make it that they don't care about people living on the "wrong" side of the border.
It didn't always stop at Colwyn Bay. If I recall correctly, originally it stopped at Newport, Shrewsbury, Crewe, Chester, Flint, Rhyl, Llandudno Junction and Bangor only. I think that was a very sensible stopping pattern for an exclusive express (note that Welsh stations Cwmbran and Abergavenny are also missing from the list) and, apart from swapping Crewe for Wrexham General and (maybe) adding Hereford, I would not change that at all. I would however limit it to three trains per day each way with the fast path through north Wales used by a service from Birmingham, Manchester or London in the other hours.
I'd put money on the fact they will want the UK taxpayers to fund it while they get all the benefits.
At the moment yes; since rail infrustructure is not devolved they don't get an allocation of money for rail infrustructure in the block grant. Therefore it is currently the UK Government's responsibility to fund any infrustructure changes. I believe however that the Welsh Government have finally agreed that they want rail infrustructure devolved. If they get that they will get a certain amount of money for that, which may focus minds on what can actually be done within that funding allocation.
Of course, this is what should happen with a clock face 20 minute frequency between Chester and Llandudno Junction. It won’t though, there will be irregular stopping patterns, two trains within 10 minutes and then nothing for 30+ minutes - remember this is TfW.
Don't forget that the north Wales coast line has to compete with a dual carriageway. Google maps gives 52 minutes to drive from Llandudno Junction to Chester; even without the potential two new stations making all trains all-stops could make it difficult to get pepole out of their cars. I think the thing to do depends on whether you build two the new stations. If you do, then I think the Welsh Government's 5tph aspiration isn't too far off the mark if you make it a half-hourly clockface all-stops service between Chester and Llandudo (perhaps 1tph from Crewe and the other from Liverpool) and fit a mix of fast and semi-fast services to Holyhead and Caernarfon between them however you can.
Without Holywell and Broughton stations, the half-hourly clockface all-stops service between Llandudno Junction and Chester becomes one to Holyhead and one to Llandudo. You then add 1tph fast to Holyhead and 1tph semi-fast to Caernarfon for a total of 4tph.
As much as I would love to see your suggestion come to fruition, there simply isn’t the demand for 4 trains per hour all day west of Chester.
What should happen (but won’t politically) is:
Hourly Liverpool - Llandudno
Hourly Manchester - Bangor (Caernarfon)
Every 2 hours London - Holyhead
Every 2 hours Cardiff - Holyhead
Wot, no Birmingham? The problem with limiting it to 3tph is that Abergele & Pensarn and, in particular, Shotton could do with having half-hourly services, but that would make either Holyhead or Caernarfon services slow and unattractive to long-distance passengers. I suppose if you had suitable trains you could make the fast service split at Bangor to serve both Holyhead and Caernarfon, but that still costs a few minutes particularly for one of the two destinations.
tarts reading::
