West Coast reservations

[Bob M]

I recently travelled from the south coast to Scotland, including Birmingham to Edinburgh on West Coast. On both journeys the quiet coach A had every seat marked reserved, mostly just 'RESERVED' with a few 'RESERVED from xx'. The ticket man insisted that 'RESERVED' meant the seat was reserved on every leg of the journey, but the coach was never full, and nearer to Edinburgh largely empty. What's going on?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm assuming this is a Pendolino.

RESERVED means it is currently reserved. This will disappear when you pass the station it is reserved to.
RESERVED FROM XX means it is not reserved until station XX.

Very often people make reservations on walk-up tickets because they are free of charge and the online sales sites encourage it. They then don't use them.

 

[ian1944]

I'm assuming this is a Pendolino.

RESERVED means it is currently reserved. This will disappear when you pass the station it is reserved to.
RESERVED FROM XX means it is not reserved until station XX.

Very often people make reservations on walk-up tickets because they are free of charge and the online sales sites encourage it. They then don't use them.

"Currently reserved" is essentially useless information. If you're travelling without a reservation, you want to be able to hop from seat to seat ( if your trip isn't achievable in just one) without danger of being evicted, so "reserved from W to X", or "reserved from W to X, reserved from Y to Z" enables this. In other words, you want to know what's what at the time of joining the train, not just as the journey proceeds.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Sorry a little off topic as it was on a Super Voyager, but several months ago, I remember not being able to reserve a seat in First Class, but noticed an unoccupied single seat was labelled 'reserved'. As other seats were saying 'reserved from station later on in the journey', I took this as meaning it was free for me to use, but alas, I got politely asked to move later on in the journey by the reservation owner. I suppose it could simply be the case that it had been reserved two or more times in the journey, with the reservations finishing and starting at the same station.

 

[Mollman]

Unfortunately Virgin's reservation system is very hit and miss. Whilst Bletchleyite is quite right in what should happen, quite often the RESERVED sign remains for the full journey rather than resetting at the correct point.

 

[Mag_seven]

Unfortunately Virgin's reservation system is very hit and miss. Whilst Bletchleyite is quite right in what should happen, quite often the RESERVED sign remains for the full journey rather than resetting at the correct point.

If it just states RESERVED my understanding is it is reserved from the starting station and not an intermediate station. Why they can't just have a simple "reserved between A and B" sign is beyond men.

 

[LeylandLen]

As Ive said elsewhere in other threads, the basic technology is from 2002 when the Pendelinos were introduced , thats 15 years ago , yes it needs updating but at what cost ? Also , with the move to do away with credit-card sized paper tickets , and having the 'ticket' on your phone, the 'reserver' would have to prove he/she is entitled to that seat !

 

[takno]

As Ive said elsewhere in other threads, the basic technology is from 2002 when the Pendelinos were introduced , thats 15 years ago , yes it needs updating but at what cost ? Also , with the move to do away with credit-card sized paper tickets , and having the 'ticket' on your phone, the 'reserver' would have to prove he/she is entitled to that seat !

It's completely understandable that 15-year-old trains have 18-20 year-old technology in them, and the price for a better system in existing stock would be extremely high since it's not exactly something you can just bolt on. The price difference for new stock or stock undergoing a major refurb using something like https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pervasive-displays/E2200CS021/E2200CS021-ND/6821164 to show full details is probably fairly small.

What does the system in IETs look like?

 

[ValleyLines142]

It's completely understandable that 15-year-old trains have 18-20 year-old technology in them, and the price for a better system in existing stock would be extremely high since it's not exactly something you can just bolt on. The price difference for new stock or stock undergoing a major refurb using something like https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pervasive-displays/E2200CS021/E2200CS021-ND/6821164 to show full details is probably fairly small.

What does the system in IETs look like?

In the IET's, green means its available from that station, amber means it's reversed along the journey and red means its reserved from there.

 

[Kite159]

The system used on the XC voyagers & EMT 222s is better. Although IIRC the last time I was on a Virgin Voyager the screen just said "reserved", rather than "Reserved from X to Y".

Useful for those travelling without a reservation, for example heading from Wigan to Lancaster, on seeing an empty seat which says "Reserved" they don't know if come Preston they will be kicked out, whereas if they stated "Reserved from Euston to Carlisle" they would feel safe that they can relax.

 

[takno]

In the IET's, green means its available from that station, amber means it's reversed along the journey and red means its reserved from there.

Does that mean there's no text at all? I'd heard about the lights but assumed they were paired up with some actual information...

 

[221129]

Does that mean there's no text at all? I'd heard about the lights but assumed they were paired up with some actual information...

they are...

 

[I13]

Does that mean there's no text at all? I'd heard about the lights but assumed they were paired up with some actual information...

The IET reservation screens have two rows of information - a 'Current' and a 'Next' row. For instance, at Paddington it might say 'Available' then in the next line 'Reading to Swindon', in which case the light would be amber. If reserved/available for the rest of the journey, the second line would be empty.

 

[I13]

The carriages in IETs end up looking like this (this was taken on their third day in service, hence the paper reservation slips were still being used).

 

[roversfan2001]

Paper tickets convey all information needed in a visible format. The only problem with them is that during disruption they usually aren't put out.

I often take no notice of the information on the Pendolino screens, they're useless.

 

[whhistle]

They should just stop reserving seats.
I'd be interested in the statistics of the amount of people who reserve a seat, then sit anywhere, or catch a completely different train if their tickets allow. I bet this whole reservations lark isn't worth doing...

 

[pnepaul]

On Monday I was travelling from Crewe to Penrith and had a reservation. There are was someone occupying the seat as the sign merely said Reserved. There were was no issue with him changing seats, buy I did feel compelled to show him my tickets just in case he thought I was making it up lol.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They should just stop reserving seats.
I'd be interested in the statistics of the amount of people who reserve a seat, then sit anywhere, or catch a completely different train if their tickets allow. I bet this whole reservations lark isn't worth doing...

Seat selection solves the former. The ability to change a reservation would solve the latter.

 

[Hellfire]

They should just stop reserving seats.
I'd be interested in the statistics of the amount of people who reserve a seat, then sit anywhere, or catch a completely different train if their tickets allow. I bet this whole reservations lark isn't worth doing...

I don't think they should stop reserving seats. When I buy a ticket for a two and a half hour journey I want to be sure I have somewhere to sit. Sure, some reserved seats don't get used but in my experience on VTWC, most peak trains are pretty full

 

[a_c_skinner]

The actual solution is to have enough seats, then it would be less of an issue.

I know this is a superficial treatment, but it is the heart of the issue.

Edit: Also, why in these days of technology cannot the automatic systems simply duplicate the information on those little reservation tickets, ideally with a system wide system?

 

[Hellfire]

The actual solution is to have enough seats, then it would be less of an issue.

How does anyone know how many people are going to be boarding a specific train on a specific day to ensure there are enough seats?

 

[a_c_skinner]

Probably because they know how many people were on it yesterday, last week. You didn't quote my admission that it was a superficial treatment, which it is, but the basic issue is very crowded trains. Yes, I know there are peaks and troughs but I rarely see troughs on the WCML, in fact most of the long distance trains I use (TP and WCML) are well loaded, probably to the point where crowding discourages potential passengers.

 

[takno]

The actual solution is to have enough seats, then it would be less of an issue.

I know this is a superficial treatment, but it is the heart of the issue.

Edit: Also, why in these days of technology cannot the automatic systems simply duplicate the information on those little reservation tickets, ideally with a system wide system?

It's possible - the e-ink displays I linked to in a previous post could probably do it, subject to only having a 5 year expected lifespan, which is probably short enough to need replacing as part of a servicing rather than refurbishment cycle. This would increase cost substantially. Additionally it has only got down to the current pricing in the last couple of years, so wouldn't have been a realistic option at the point when any current trains were specified.

It's also reasonable to question how useful this information is. It would be useful for me, and apparently for everybody on this thread, and I can't see any reason why it would actively confuse anybody. That would suggest that a clear display with smaller text as with the labels is optimal. Against that I'd point out that I haven't done any wide scale testing of this, and train companies may have done tests which prove the contrary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How does anyone know how many people are going to be boarding a specific train on a specific day to ensure there are enough seats?

It's inherently predictable. Loadings on given trains tend to be quite consistent, large group bookings aside.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's possible - the e-ink displays I linked to in a previous post could probably do it, subject to only having a 5 year expected lifespan, which is probably short enough to need replacing as part of a servicing rather than refurbishment cycle. This would increase cost substantially. Additionally it has only got down to the current pricing in the last couple of years, so wouldn't have been a realistic option at the point when any current trains were specified.

The problem with e-ink is that like a Solari type display (or flipdot) it can get stuck with incorrect information showing. LED or LCD shows nothing if it fails.

There's nothing wrong with LCD for this application, it's cheap, reliable and well developed.

 

[Bluejays]

Personally I think the reservation system needs to be changed. Not a fan of the requirement for a reserved seat when booking an advance ticket. I also think that if you reserve a seat you should be required to sit in that seat. I find it an absolute pain at present.

 

[LeylandLen]

Personally I think the reservation system needs to be changed. Not a fan of the requirement for a reserved seat when booking an advance ticket. I also think that if you reserve a seat you should be required to sit in that seat. I find it an absolute pain at present.

I usually use Virgin from Lancashire to / from Euston and seat reservations are free .You are only committed to a specific seat on a specific train if its an advance so you lose nothing with a non-advance ticket if you wish to catch a later train with the ticket. I would think there would have to be a fee to try and make sure people caught the train on which the seat is reserved . Do other TOCS apart from the ones I use( Virgin, Northern, TPE , Chiltern) charge for reservations on any train ?

 

[E_Reeves]

On XC before I reserved a seat, and moments later somebody else came with a reservation for the same seat (both tickets were checked and guard had no idea why this happened).

 

[route101]

Had this the other day on VT pendo , got on at Preston with loads of empty seats just saying reserved , its better when its says its reserrved between a and b .

TPE services out of Manchester heading to Scotland are a nightmare . Trains too short with seats with mostly reservations plus a load of commuters heading to Wigan or Preston . Dosent help that people with reservations from Man Picc get on at Oxford road . Dont see the need for advances on short journeys such as Manchester to Lancaster .

 

[Deafdoggie]

On XC before I reserved a seat, and moments later somebody else came with a reservation for the same seat (both tickets were checked and guard had no idea why this happened).

I have had this many times with XC