West Midlands Railway cancellations

[dk1]

Not sure how things work with the jobs but they're all based at Worcester.

22:00 & 22:30 appear to be running to Great Malvern & Worcester Shrub Hill as booked formed by the aforementioned arrivals.

 

[trainophile]

22:00 & 22:30 appear to be running to Great Malvern & Worcester Shrub Hill as booked formed by the aforementioned arrivals.

So it's just the poor sods customers who want to get to Colwall, Ledbury and Hereford who are stuffed again .

 

[Clarence Yard]

The taxis and buses cost, just like any other business expense are directly put against the any company's tax bill - so effectively cost nothing.

What has to change at all operators, is that when there is a day approaching with major shortages caused by lack of overtime volunteers (ie company not hiring enough staff) is implementation of protective, emergency timetables to ensure all routes have at least an hourly service.

- Dump the day's set of traincrew and unit diagrams, get a driver, get a guard, get a train, and send the train somewhere. This has worked many times before, however the current performance regime dissuades train planners from agreeing to accept defeat and hand the job over to local traincrew management to come up with their own emergency plan. The current situation, in my opinion sees poor use of traincrew and units, and unfair 4-hour service gaps on Route A to sustain a 10 minute service on Route B.

Taxis and buses are a budget line cost item and, nowadays, effectively paid for by the DfT as the TOCs are not on cost risk. Offsetting against Tax? That’s a bizarre allegation - it just doesn’t work like that.

The problem on the day sits with the TOC Control and Train Crew management, train planning don’t usually get involved. You assume the company may not have enough staff - it may well do but there are not enough volunteers to cover annual leave, staff may blow out sick at the last minute or the TOC has too many stood off sick (waiting NHS, etc.) and cannot back fill. There may also be staff agreements about how spare turns are utilised - some TOCs have more flexibility than others.

So when does a TOC bin services off to give the punters certainty of service? Try to run your service up to the day itself in the hope you can get enough people or do it earlier? If you do it earlier or even on the day, how do you move staff whose rosters say they are going to do something else?

 

[trainophile]

From a passenger's point of view the more notice they can get the better. So frustrating to be half way through a two leg journey, arrive at the connecting station and only then see the departures board change to Cancelled. I've had that happen a few times at New Street, if only I'd known earlier I would have made alternative plans.

Even now I'm debating buying a ticket back from Liverpool via Chester instead of via Birmingham for next Saturday. Waste of money if the BHM-HFD trains do run, but am I prepared to take the risk?

Edit: Done it. Not prepared to faff around with replacement buses or expensive last minute hotels.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Off topic admittedly, but are you saying that advertising a timetable that is realistic and can actually be ran reliably as opposed to one which is reliant entirely on non existent goodwill isn't to be applauded in the current climate?

Yup run a timetable you know you can deliver day in day out even if its doesn't deliver what is really desired you can build upto that. On may routes you can deal with capacity by doubling on units ie reduce frequency but add more capacity.

 

[greenline712]

Yup run a timetable you know you can deliver day in day out even if its doesn't deliver what is really desired you can build upto that. On may routes you can deal with capacity by doubling on units ie reduce frequency but add more capacity.

Which is exactly what TPE have done, and been castigated for. You can please some of the people . . .

At the risk of going way off topic (but it is relevant) . . . on London Buses in the 1980s there were primary and secondary schedules on many (admittedly high-frequency) routes . . . garages were told to cover the primary duties without fail, and to run the secondary duties if they could. And yes, they were vilified as well, but it did give some certainty as to what was to operate.

If staff availability is really that bad, week in, week out, then reduce your timetable. Protect first and last trains if at all possible, and double up on train lengths if the stations will accept longer trains. The hell with the advertised frequencies and any cancellation penalties in the short term, and advertise the hell out of the reduced timetable, and why it's necessary.

It's sort of logical, really . . .

 

[HLE]

Issue with the herefords is only one depot sign the route & traction. Another depot on the snow hill lines signs the traction but not the route. Can't see it changing either.

 

[172007]

Issue with the herefords is only one depot sign the route & traction. Another depot on the snow hill lines signs the traction but not the route. Can't see it changing either.

I suspect it's a nationwide issue.

 

[Moonshot]

Needs to be a 30% slashing if services all round just so as a timetable can be delivered without recourse to any overtime at all. Passenger revenue is still way down on what it was pre covid.....there needs to be a healthy dose of realism all round.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Which is exactly what TPE have done, and been castigated for. You can please some of the people . . .

At the risk of going way off topic (but it is relevant) . . . on London Buses in the 1980s there were primary and secondary schedules on many (admittedly high-frequency) routes . . . garages were told to cover the primary duties without fail, and to run the secondary duties if they could. And yes, they were vilified as well, but it did give some certainty as to what was to operate.

If staff availability is really that bad, week in, week out, then reduce your timetable. Protect first and last trains if at all possible, and double up on train lengths if the stations will accept longer trains. The hell with the advertised frequencies and any cancellation penalties in the short term, and advertise the hell out of the reduced timetable, and why it's necessary.

It's sort of logical, really . . .

Totally correct and I suspect this what we will see Hendy pushing for. He wasn't cautious when he came into NR and hacked into the enhancements programme pretty ruthlessly to stabilise the situation. As long as its short term pain like TPE then it won't have a last impact on ridership. It will also lower extra costs being accrued on ever increasing costs to secure RDW arrangements.

 

[43066]

Totally correct and I suspect this what we will see Hendy pushing for. He wasn't cautious when he came into NR and hacked into the enhancements programme pretty ruthlessly to stabilise the situation. As long as its short term pain like TPE then it won't have a last impact on ridership.

But AIUI the TPE issues have largely been resolved by allowing a new RDW agreement on the pre Covid terms, which the previous government refused to permit for a long period.

I suspect Hendy will take a pragmatic approach; there’s no problem in principle why a degree of reliance on overtime isn’t sensible and cost effective to cover training, short notice absence etc. It’s all a question of degree. My operator doesn’t have significant cancellations due to crewing, despite generally quite heavy reliance on overtime. That’s largely because the overtime rates offered are decent enough to make it worthwhile to do it, but also because there’s a grown up relationship between staff and management.

It will also lower extra costs being accrued on ever increasing costs to secure RDW arrangements.

But would significantly increase overall costs due to higher establishment levels being necessary. That will mean less money for (eg) bringing Sundays into the working week, which could be more beneficial to service resilience.

I’ll believe a UK railway that doesn’t depend on a significant degree of traincrew overtime when I see it…

Needs to be a 30% slashing if services all round just so as a timetable can be delivered without recourse to any overtime at all. Passenger revenue is still way down on what it was pre covid.....there needs to be a healthy dose of realism all round.

A 30% slashing of the timetable to save a few quid on overtime payments sounds like a terrible idea. Better to use OT to run the best service possible for the passengers while training up more crews, if anything.

 

[Horizon22]

I think my issue is two fold though, there’s the road transport issue, but the fact there is a lack of competence to even post accurate information on their website. It’s simply unacceptable, and would cost people jobs elsewhere.

Just like a lack of train crew, the social media team and information team is likely short.

 

[Bevan Price]

The sensible policy - nationwide - would be to permanently change diagrams so that "last trains" are always booked to be worked by crews working in "normal hours" - never overtime.

 

[43066]

Just like a lack of train crew, the social media team and information team is likely short.

Absolutely. Staff are thin on the ground in most areas after the past couple of years; see also the thread about ticket offices being unmanned during published opening hours.

People perhaps don’t appreciate how much flexibility is shown by staff to paper over the cracks (and not only traincrew, but also those in planning and control functions, who aren’t as visible to passengers). That can only go so far, however.

The sensible policy - nationwide - would be to permanently change diagrams so that "last trains" are always booked to be worked by crews working in "normal hours" - never overtime.

All trains, including first and last, are already booked in “normal hours” (with the exception of Sunday services, at those TOCs where Sundays aren’t inside the working week, and therefore entirely based on overtime). Overtime is used to cover turns of duty where there aren’t any staff available to be rostered to them, which can happen for various reasons including sickness absence, being off track due to incidents, or the staff simply not existing because the depot is below establishment.

 

[Horizon22]

The sensible policy - nationwide - would be to permanently change diagrams so that "last trains" are always booked to be worked by crews working in "normal hours" - never overtime.

Diagramming and rostering simply doesn't (and cannot) work that way. On certain TOCs on Sundays, all the trains are overtime.

If a turn is uncovered, you would have to ask another member of crew on their booked diagram to swap to the uncovered one and the simple answer to the request (to a later finish) is likely to be "no".

 

[Falcon1200]

I’ll believe a UK railway that doesn’t depend on a significant degree of traincrew overtime when I see it…

Agree, although I would delete the word 'traincrew' - Every job I did on the railway required overtime, whether booking office clerk, parcels clerk, TOPS clerk or Controller!
And Sundays were not in the working week when I joined BR in 1978.... they still were not when I retired in 2016. Not an easy, or cheap, nut to crack.

 

[dk1]

The sensible policy - nationwide - would be to permanently change diagrams so that "last trains" are always booked to be worked by crews working in "normal hours" - never overtime.

Impossible any day of the week let alone Sundays.

 

[43066]

Agree, although I would delete the word 'traincrew' - Every job I did on the railway required overtime, whether booking office clerk, parcels clerk, TOPS clerk or Controller!
And Sundays were not in the working week when I joined BR in 1978.... they still were not when I retired in 2016. Not an easy, or cheap, nut to crack.

Yep - fair point.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

The sensible policy - nationwide - would be to permanently change diagrams so that "last trains" are always booked to be worked by crews working in "normal hours" - never overtime.

The only way that would work at this depot would be to introduce an AM/Pm standby turn which would cover the hours of the 1st and the last jobs of the day and cannot be utilised as spares.

This is currently being requested at another depot due to issue around no spares on the day and not covering spare turns with rdw.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Today (Fri 26th) had several cancellations on the Snow Hills and apparently on the Shrewsburys, with at one stage virtually every other train between Worcester and Snow Hill cancelled due to train crew issues

 

[Silverlinky]

Today (Fri 26th) had several cancellations on the Snow Hills and apparently on the Shrewsburys, with at one stage virtually every other train between Worcester and Snow Hill cancelled due to train crew issues

lack of drivers on the depots I believe, primarily Tyseley which meant that units were not prepared, fuelled or brought into service this morning.

 

[trainophile]

From a passenger's point of view the more notice they can get the better. So frustrating to be half way through a two leg journey, arrive at the connecting station and only then see the departures board change to Cancelled. I've had that happen a few times at New Street, if only I'd known earlier I would have made alternative plans.

Even now I'm debating buying a ticket back from Liverpool via Chester instead of via Birmingham for next Saturday. Waste of money if the BHM-HFD trains do run, but am I prepared to take the risk?

Edit: Done it. Not prepared to faff around with replacement buses or expensive last minute hotels.

Made the right decision today by the seems of it. Everything showing running okay at about 08:00 this morning, but according to National Rail Live Trains there was a whole heap of cancellations from mid afternoon onwards on the BHM-HFD route. At least if they know they can't run the services couldn't they give us a bit more notice?

Edit: Mine was terminated at Worcs Foregate Street, so I would have had to wait there for an hour.

 

[diffident]

Made the right decision today by the seems of it. Everything showing running okay at about 08:00 this morning, but according to National Rail Live Trains there was a whole heap of cancellations from mid afternoon onwards on the BHM-HFD route. At least if they know they can't run the services couldn't they give us a bit more notice?

Edit: Mine was terminated at Worcs Foregate Street, so I would have had to wait there for an hour.

I had a friend stranded at Worcester Foregate Street last night at about 17:00ish. He was heading to Bromsgrove. No replacement transport and no staff to be seen.

Not a good look really.

 

[trainophile]

Not one cancellation today despite being a Sunday. Is Sunday in the working week for WMR?

This Saturday thing is going to be a real problem if it continues.

 

[Amnesiac]

Is Sunday in the working week for WMR?

Not for drivers, committed for guards

 

[GalaxyDog]

Even committed guards can ditch a Sunday if they give polite notice in advance by a week or three.

Interesting to see that traincrews at WMR still dissatisfied but I am seriously not surprised as former WMR myself. I wonder what has gone on behind closed doors to miff people to the point of ditching RDW?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Even committed guards can ditch a Sunday if they give polite notice in advance by a week or three.

Interesting to see that traincrews at WMR still dissatisfied but I am seriously not surprised as former WMR myself. I wonder what has gone on behind closed doors to miff people to the point of ditching RDW?

Crap diagrams (for staff) and now school holiday season. RDW is always available at this time of year, but if you have kids it's hard to make yourself available

 

[172007]

The Saturday RDW enhancement is time + 1/4 which is simply not enough considering staff only get 1 in 3 Saturdays off and so if you work a RDW Saturday then that's 5 on the trot.

For many of us Saturday's off are way more important than Sundays as Sundays have Sunday trading hours etc that restrict what you can do.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Indeed, impossible to get a Saturday off as annual leave during football season for instance

 

[317 forever]

I had a day out in Tamworth & Birmingham on July 13th. I travelled out to Tamworth and back from Lichfield Trent Valley. In the morning there was no news about any forthcoming cancellations. By mid-afternoon there were quite a few, with a warning of plenty of disruption expected for the Sunday.

While I took care to reach Lichfield in time to avoid such a cancellation, I had the good fortune to locate an Avanti 805 for the first time.