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West Midlands Trains Fraud Accusation

sjk232

Member
Joined
3 May 2024
Messages
7
Location
northampton
Hi! Hoping you can help

I recieved an email this morning from WMT advising that their digital fraud team is investigating delay repay claims and wanted a response within 7 days. No further details of the accusation was received.

I responded advising that I don't understand what they're accusing me of - the nature of my job means I travel to London often at unspecific times of the day (not 9-5). They almost immediately sent a poorly worded response back saying the 'scan data doesn't match' and attached a copy of all my delay repay claims for the last year, asking for the total to be repaid + £250 for admin costs. They even provided the account number via email. They still have yet to provide any evidence at all which I have again requested. A copy of the email is below

Can anyone suggest what action to take next? I have checked the account number and it is not a phising scam despite appearing to be done. How do I escalate this to get this resolved quickly? I've tried the complaints team at WMT but they just directed me back to the fraud team.
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Good morning,


Thank you for your response.
We understand work patterns can be varied throughout the day, and hybrid working can happen.


However, we review and investigate on excessive amounts that trigged our department within a time scale. We understand there may be some delays on the network and certain times customers are entitled to receive compensation for delays they have incurred for travel they have completed.

On your account there are some days you have claim have submitted and going by your scan data the events do not line up. Pleases see attached data we have matched up and do not go inside with your scan data.



The administration fee is charged due to all the time that is involved in investigating each case and where there are multiple refunds involved, we must investigate each one of these, this is a very time-consuming process and is therefore costly to the business.

Please in your response choose which option you wish to take.

Option A – To make full payment.

Option B – Go onto a payment plan.

Option C – Provide evidence in the next 5 days to support your claims.

Option D – Have case handed over to the Prosecutions Team and incur further fees.

Here are the payment details.

Account Name: WMT Ltd - Digital Prosecutions

Sort Code: 30 80 12

Account Number: 24429068

REF - DFDR110252

Make sure to put your reference number in so we can link the payment to yourself.

Email us with confirmation of payment being made and once payment has been received, we will send a receipt and close the case down this can take up to 10 business days.

Information we must inform you of; if we have not received an email for payment a gentle reminder may be sent and if a late payment is made you could incur further fees and if no payment is made then the case will be escalated to our prosecutions team.


Kind regards,
Investigator ID DFI21083
Fraud and Investigations Manager
 
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skyhigh

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14 Sep 2014
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5,458
On your account there are some days you have claim have submitted and going by your scan data the events do not line up. Pleases see attached data we have matched up and do not go inside with your scan data.
This suggests that the scan data they have doesn't match the trains you claimed for. Did you only make correct claims for the trains you actually travelled on?

How many claims have you made?
 

sjk232

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3 May 2024
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7
Location
northampton
I think around 30 or so over the last 12 months, its around £500 - I travel in to London 5-6 days a week. A lot of the time there are no barriers at Euston also

I have definitely only claimed for journeys that I've made, most of them are for 15 mins +

They haven't actually said which journeys they're concerned about and have just asked for payment for all of them, even full strike days

EDIT* It's £400 in total over the last year
 

AlterEgo

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I think around 30 or so over the last 12 months, its around £500 - I travel in to London 5-6 days a week. A lot of the time there are no barriers at Euston also

I have definitely only claimed for journeys that I've made, most of them are for 15 mins +

They haven't actually said which journeys they're concerned about and have just asked for payment for all of them, even full strike days
This in and of itself wouldn’t strike me as particularly unusual. If you’re absolutely sure that you have done nothing wrong, and only if, send them a very brief email rebutting the accusation strongly.
 

sjk232

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3 May 2024
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7
Location
northampton
This in and of itself wouldn’t strike me as particularly unusual. If you’re absolutely sure that you have done nothing wrong, and only if, send them a very brief email rebutting the accusation strongly.
Thank you, this is what I've done - I'll wait to see what they respond
 

talldave

Established Member
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24 Jan 2013
Messages
2,190
Forgive my stupidity but didn't you have to provide evidence with the claims? Which they accepted before making payment?

If that's the case in your position my reply would be very short and not quotable on here!!
 

skyhigh

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Messages
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Forgive my stupidity but didn't you have to provide evidence with the claims?
No, you don't. Claims are essentially paid out on a trust basis. There is zero requirement to submit proof you were actually on the train when you make a claim.
 

talldave

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24 Jan 2013
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No, you don't. Claims are essentially paid out on a trust basis. There is zero requirement to submit proof you were actually on the train when you make a claim.
Ah, interesting. It would be intriguing to see how they would prove that you weren’t on the train then.
 

Wolfie

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6,232
No, you don't. Claims are essentially paid out on a trust basis. There is zero requirement to submit proof you were actually on the train when you make a claim.
Short of a guard/RPI inspection of the ticket and physical/electronic marking l'm not sure how there could be.

Ah, interesting. It would be intriguing to see how they would prove that you weren’t on the train then.
Possibly entry/exit evidence from ticket barriers? To give a hypothetical example if you enter Birmingham New Street at 0900 on a particular day you are unlikely to have been on a train leaving at 1500. Another thing l wonder if they might check is accessing the onboard WiFi.
 

X-City-WM

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Birmingham
Could they cross-reference with TfL data for times a passenger tapped in at the tube station vs train arrival time at Euston?
 

Wolfie

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Could they cross-reference with TfL data for times a passenger tapped in at the tube station vs train arrival time at Euston?
Probably not if the passenger was using contactless or Oyster on TfL.
 

Haywain

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3 Feb 2013
Messages
15,524
It would be intriguing to see how they would prove that you weren’t on the train then.
For anyone using eTickets or smartcard tickets, a record of each time the tickets have been scanned, which will show either or both of entry and exit times at stations and scans on trains, thelatter including identifying which train they were on.

And a claim being approved does not stop it being considered fraudulent when further information comes to light at a later time.
 

gray1404

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Merseyside
If you are positive that all your claims are legitimate and WMT have refused to accept a complaint from you then you could contact your MP and ask them to intervene.
 
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Just to clarify, you said "even full strike days" could you clear up what you mean by this, on these full strike days what did you claim for and how did you travel those days?
 

sjk232

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3 May 2024
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Location
northampton
Just to clarify, you said "even full strike days" could you clear up what you mean by this, on these full strike days what did you claim for and how did you travel those days?
I meant that when industrial action is happening and WMT have either stopped all trains or the disruption means I can’t travel. I believe I can claim 100% delay repay on these days.

WMT haven’t actually specified what journeys they believe to be fraudulent they’ve just sent me the entire list of delay repay claims since last year
 

simonw

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7 Dec 2009
Messages
811
I meant that when industrial action is happening and WMT have either stopped all trains or the disruption means I can’t travel. I believe I can claim 100% delay repay on these days.

WMT haven’t actually specified what journeys they believe to be fraudulent they’ve just sent me the entire list of delay repay claims since last year
You cannot claim delay repay if you did not travel.
 
Joined
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OK great and exactly what type of ticket did you hold, if it was a season ticket how long was it for? Ie weekly monthly etc

You cannot claim delay repay if you did not travel.

That's not quite true, depends on the exact type of ticket held by the OP
 

sjk232

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3 May 2024
Messages
7
Location
northampton
OK great and exactly what type of ticket did you hold, if it was a season ticket how long was it for? Ie weekly monthly etc



That's not quite true, depends on the exact type of ticket held by the OP
It’s a monthly season ticket which means I would be eligible- from WMTs website:

I have a monthly or longer Season ticket (including Flexi-Season)
If you have a Season Ticket that is monthly or longer, or have an activated days’ worth of travel on a Flexi Season ticket, and are unable to travel due to timetable disruption on the day that strike action has been called, then you can claim 100% compensation for these days through Delay Repay
 

Skymonster

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When you do not travel [because of strikes], you CANNOT claim delay repay and you must apply for a refund - on strike days you will get 100% back, while on other days there may be admin fees imposed. Delay repay and refund are two different things and processes, even if they ultimately yield a similar result in terms of the money you get back. If you have been claiming delay repay on occasions when you didn’t travel, even if only when there have been strikes, this will very likely be the crux of your - and WMT’s - problem.
 
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It’s a monthly season ticket which means I would be eligible- from WMTs website:

Good, that's reducing number of possibilities that they have an issue with, on those days you claimed delay repay for strike action did you use your season ticket to travel via an other operators service? (Some routes have multiple operators some dont)
 
Joined
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When you do not travel [because of strikes], you CANNOT claim delay repay and you must apply for a refund - on strike days you will get 100% back, while on other days there may be admin fees imposed. Delay repay and refund are two different things and processes, even if they ultimately yield a similar result in terms of the money you get back. If you have been claiming delay repay on occasions when you didn’t travel, even if only when there have been strikes, this will very likely be the crux of your - and WMT’s - problem.


WMT advise differently on their website
 

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sjk232

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Good, that's reducing number of possibilities that they have an issue with, on those days you claimed delay repay for strike action did you use your season ticket to travel via an other operators service? (Some routes have multiple operators some dont)
I don’t believe so as I would simply not travel on these days, hopefully they’ll share the info soon so I can dispute it properly
 

Jamiescott1

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When you do not travel [because of strikes], you CANNOT claim delay repay and you must apply for a refund - on strike days you will get 100% back, while on other days there may be admin fees imposed. Delay repay and refund are two different things and processes, even if they ultimately yield a similar result in terms of the money you get back. If you have been claiming delay repay on occasions when you didn’t travel, even if only when there have been strikes, this will very likely be the crux of your - and WMT’s - problem.
That's not what the wmt website says.
It says to claim through delay repay.
 
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Absolutely. You can claim a ticket refund, without admin fee, but not delay repay.

Again WMT website states different, it's already been established on the thread that the OP holds a monthly season ticket
 

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Southern Beau

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When you do not travel [because of strikes], you CANNOT claim delay repay and you must apply for a refund - on strike days you will get 100% back, while on other days there may be admin fees imposed. Delay repay and refund are two different things and processes, even if they ultimately yield a similar result in terms of the money you get back. If you have been claiming delay repay on occasions when you didn’t travel, even if only when there have been strikes, this will very likely be the crux of your - and WMT’s - problem.
I believe this is incorrect with WMT.
 

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