West Midlands Trains services on Camp Hill line

[Chris Butler]

As far as I can see WMT use the Camp Hill line for two services a week: the Saturday 09:44 and Saturday 15:44 services from Worcester Shrub Hill to Birmingham New Street.

I had always assumed that this was to keep up route knowledge in case of diversions. The line was closed to passenger traffic in the 1940s (I think), prior to the Transport Act 1962 so I don't think they can be "Parliamentary" trains, added to which several Cross Country services use the line daily.

However, I just noticed that there seems to be no return workings. If that's the case, I don't see how the route knowledge can be kept up because (I assume) learning signal positions etc. requires traversing a route in both directions.

Am I misunderstanding something ? If not, what is the point of routeing these two trains via the Camp Hill line ?

 

[sufian123]

As far as I can see WMT use the Camp Hill line for two services a week: the Saturday 09:44 and Saturday 15:44 services from Worcester Shrub Hill to Birmingham New Street.

I had always assumed that this was to keep up route knowledge in case of diversions. The line was closed to passenger traffic in the 1940s (I think), prior to the Transport Act 1962 so I don't think they can be "Parliamentary" trains, added to which several Cross Country services use the line daily.

However, I just noticed that there seems to be no return workings. If that's the case, I don't see how the route knowledge can be kept up because (I assume) learning signal positions etc. requires traversing a route in both directions.

Am I misunderstanding something ? If not, what is the point of routeing these two trains via the Camp Hill line ?

Doesn’t matter, even if no return via camp hill, line. As many drivers and conductors knows it, and they can run via camp hill, if via selly oak has a signalling problems. It’s good for diversion for via bromsgrove, I wish it was electric as well.

 

[Camden]

Isn't the point simply to keep the line open, so that it can eventually be reinstated as a proper passenger line with regular services?

 

[PHILIPE]

Isn't the point simply to keep the line open, so that it can eventually be reinstated as a proper passenger line with regular services?

Not really just to keep the line open as there are XC long distance services and freight using.

 

[Chris Butler]

Doesn’t matter, even if no return via camp hill, line. As many drivers and conductors knows it, and they can run via camp hill, if via selly oak has a signalling problems. It’s good for diversion for via bromsgrove, I wish it was electric as well.

I don't understand how WMT drivers keep the route knowledge refreshed if no WMT services ever go westbound.

Anyway, if, for some reason, they don't need the westbound refresh then they don't need the eastbound either, so the question remains ... what's the point of these two services.

 

[Chris Butler]

Isn't the point simply to keep the line open, so that it can eventually be reinstated as a proper passenger line with regular services?

The Camp Hill line had 70 trains last Wednesday of which 30+ were passenger. I think that is a fairly typical day. The two a week WMT services are less than 1% of the total traffic.

 

[JN114]

I don't understand how WMT drivers keep the route knowledge refreshed if no WMT services ever go westbound.

Anyway, if, for some reason, they don't need the westbound refresh then they don't need the eastbound either, so the question remains ... what's the point of these two services.

You don’t need to drive over a route to /maintain/ route knowledge - it can be refreshed through other means - cabrides with other operators’ trains; DVD/Video and so on.

 

[Chris Butler]

You don’t need to drive over a route to /maintain/ route knowledge - it can be refreshed through other means - cab rides with other operators’ trains; DVD/Video and so on.

Really. That's new to me, but I left the railways a long, long time again. I'm interested in any background on that, separately from the Camp Hill question. Is it common, or unusual? is there a need for physical experience of the route (driving or riding) every year or so or can you maintain it forever by DVDs etc. ?

But, if so then why the two eastbound trains because the route knowledge that direction could be maintained the same way.

 

[newtownmgr]

The WMT services over the Camp Hill are worked by Worcester depot. We also have various ECS moves during the day to/from Tyseley - New St as well as an evening ECS from Worcester LMD to Tyseley LMD which runs via Galton Junction to New St. To maintain route knowledge via both Camp Hill & Galton - New St we have booked route refreshers in the links. As already commented on we also use both routes for diversionary purposes. The Conductors retain route knowledge via the use of a DVD.

 

[newtownmgr]

Really. That's new to me, but I left the railways a long, long time again. I'm interested in any background on that, separately from the Camp Hill question. Is it common, or unusual? is there a need for physical experience of the route (driving or riding) every year or so or can you maintain it forever by DVDs etc. ?

But, if so then why the two eastbound trains because the route knowledge that direction could be maintained the same way.

As regards drivers all route learning & route refreshing has to be done physically,at least on WMT, however DVD’s can be used to assist but you still have to travel over the route. Guards can do it by DVD only if required. As regards resignalling projects, we are usually briefed by a mixture of DVD & the signalling brief issued by Network Rail, depending on the amount of changes the driver will also be required to,or be given the option of traveling over the route.

 

[Chris Butler]

To maintain route knowledge via both Camp Hill & Galton - New St we have booked route refreshers in the links.

Thanks for this info.

Do you mean that there are turns in the link where trains are run over the Camp Hill route (and Galton Jnc - New St section) just for route learning/refreshing ?

I can see that the ECS working over Galton Jnc and the Saturday services on the Camp Hill can be used for route refreshing and, if the link is small enough, they might be sufficient to keep the knowledge up.

What I am still puzzled about is what opportunities there are for westbound refreshing other than random diversions.

 

[Chris Butler]

As regards drivers all route learning & route refreshing has to be done physically,at least on WMT, however DVD’s can be used to assist but you still have to travel over the route.

That's what I thought. Thanks.

 

[Camden]

The plan is to have services up and running by 2021, so if they nominally keep "route knowledge" current for a number of staff, would that then mean one less thing to deal with to get the line open? That from day one without having to do anything extra, there are drivers and guards ready for it?

 

[newtownmgr]

Thanks for this info.

Do you mean that there are turns in the link where trains are run over the Camp Hill route (and Galton Jnc - New St section) just for route learning/refreshing ?

I can see that the ECS working over Galton Jnc and the Saturday services on the Camp Hill can be used for route refreshing and, if the link is small enough, they might be sufficient to keep the knowledge up.

What I am still puzzled about is what opportunities there are for westbound refreshing other than random diversions.

We are issued cab passes for XC etc to enable us to route refresh.

 

[newtownmgr]

The plan is to have services up and running by 2021, so if they nominally keep "route knowledge" current for a number of staff, would that then mean one less thing to deal with to get the line open? That from day one without having to do anything extra, there are drivers and guards ready for it?

Basically yes, certainly as regards Worcester. As & when the stations reopen & the service is up & running, if any other depot becomes involved in the work they will have to obviously route learn.

 

[Chris Butler]

We are issued cab passes for XC etc to enable us to route refresh.

I wondered about that possibility, but thought it unlikely. Now, I see I was wrong. Thanks.

See one of you next Saturday ... we're coming up from Taunton to do a 3 in 7 Heart of England trip including the 15:44 on Saturday.

 

[newtownmgr]

I wondered about that possibility, but thought it unlikely. Now, I see I was wrong. Thanks.

See one of you next Saturday ... we're coming up from Taunton to do a 3 in 7 Heart of England trip including the 15:44 on Saturday.

Booked for 2 x 172/2. Won’t be me, I’m on Hfd’s but not that one.