West Yorkshire Mayor Tracy Brabin promises "spades in ground" for tram network by 2028 if reelected

[thenorthern]

Over the weekend I noticed this from Tracy Brabin who is the Mayor of West Yorkshire and is running for reelection.



While a West Yorkshire Tram Network would be nice I think she is being a bit optimistic about promising spades in the ground by 2028. Also given the plans for the Leeds Supertram which was later cancelled I have my doubts it will happen.

 

[The exile]

Those are the two spades used to dig the two holes for a big sign saying “coming soon!”

 

[Ben427]

It depends whether WYCA can get plans through DfT and HMT's business case processes; despite promises and fanfare the money is still being held by central govt rather devolved to local areas.

HMT's green book is notoriously useless for transport projects in the north, particularly metro ones.

 

[JD2168]

Given the many non starters for Leeds Supertram & associated Trolley Bus I will believe it when it happens.

 

[nr758123]

Her Conservative opponent has said something similar.

 

[HullRailMan]

Given that Labour have committed to fiscal restraint if they get into power, where is the money coming from? Another politician making another pie-in-the-sky pledge in election season.

 

[Andyh82]

Unlike her current term in office, it’s unlikely she’ll just be able to blame those bad old Tories in London for not giving her the money.

Maybe she only wants two terms as mayor anyway

 

[Ben427]

Unlike her current term in office, it’s unlikely she’ll just be able to blame those bad old Tories in London for not giving her the money.

Maybe she only wants two terms as mayor anyway

At present the monies are (semi) committed under CRSTS rounds, these are largely built into the costings Govt. As mentioned, unfortunately the issue is that funding isn't fully devolved - the Mayoral Combined Authorities have a democratic mandate, Govt should provide the money (as they won't provide fiscal raising powers or taxation receipts to remain in the locality) and then stick their noses out.

 

[Bantamzen]

Spades in the ground by 2028? Not a blummin' chance! There isn't anything like a firm plan what routes will be served and what alignments they will take, so there's no chance that getting that sorted, then all the planning and budgeting processes just to get to the stage of putting out contract tenders & making arrangements for road diversions in that time. Let alone be up and running building the damn thing.

 

[YorksLad12]

I was told a couple of years back that the aim was to get spades in the ground by the end of the second mayoral term (7 years in West Yorkshire's case, not the usual 8 because of the pandemic). It's doable, if you assume that some bits are easy and obvious. You can crack on with those while sorting out the difficult bits (Bradford and Leeds termini, for example, or the exact route through Pudsey). Of course, the "easy and obvious" bits might get objected to once people find that their gardens are being truncated...

 

[Grimsby town]

Spades in the ground by 2028? Not a blummin' chance! There isn't anything like a firm plan what routes will be served and what alignments they will take, so there's no chance that getting that sorted, then all the planning and budgeting processes just to get to the stage of putting out contract tenders & making arrangements for road diversions in that time. Let alone be up and running building the damn thing.

Do you have any knowledge what is going on behind closed doors? I don't personally know what is happening with the Leeds tram system, but I do know a small amount of what is occurring in Manchester. A lot of plans are being drawn up for tram-train in the background even though nothing is actually made public. The public aren't and never will be updated at every stage of the project.

Personally, I don't think 2028 is unrealistic even taking into account how slow transport projects are in the UK. The rapid transit strategy has been in place since 2020 so I find hard to believe that no scheme development has occurred since then.

 

[Bantamzen]

Do you have any knowledge what is going on behind closed doors? I don't personally know what is happening with the Leeds tram system, but I do know a small amount of what is occurring in Manchester. A lot of plans are being drawn up for tram-train in the background even though nothing is actually made public. The public aren't and never will be updated at every stage of the project.

Personally, I don't think 2028 is unrealistic even taking into account how slow transport projects are in the UK. The rapid transit strategy has been in place since 2020 so I find hard to believe that no scheme development has occurred since then.

You may have noticed that all of a sudden tram systems are the talk of the town in places where they exist and where they are desired. You may also have noticed that a general election looms on the horizon, and from time to time it is not unheard of politicians upping their "promises" in the run up to elections.

Like you I have no inside knowledge of what is happening in West Yorkshire. However I do know politicians love to big things up around elections, and if there were anything happening behind the scenes they would leap on it right now. Yet we don't even know of any firm proposals for future tram alignments, and there certainly hasn't been any public consultation on such.

So reading between the lines, trams are going to be one of the political hobby horses for the GE campaigns. And knowing how these things pan out, I'm certain the spades will not be hitting the ground in 2028.

 

[Grimsby town]

You may have noticed that all of a sudden tram systems are the talk of the town in places where they exist and where they are desired. You may also have noticed that a general election looms on the horizon, and from time to time it is not unheard of politicians upping their "promises" in the run up to elections.

Like you I have no inside knowledge of what is happening in West Yorkshire. However I do know politicians love to big things up around elections, and if there were anything happening behind the scenes they would leap on it right now. Yet we don't even know of any firm proposals for future tram alignments, and there certainly hasn't been any public consultation on such.

So reading between the lines, trams are going to be one of the political hobby horses for the GE campaigns. And knowing how these things pan out, I'm certain the spades will not be hitting the ground in 2028.

It's a common theme on here that people say a project isn't developed enough when they have no idea on the actual stage of development. Nearly 9 years from conception to construction is hardly fast so I see no reason why it couldn't happen. The funding is in place for development of the project and chances are the political environment is only going to get more favourable towards public transport and a labour mayor.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's a common theme on here that people say a project isn't developed enough when they have no idea on the actual stage of development. Nearly 9 years from conception to construction is hardly fast so I see no reason why it couldn't happen. The funding is in place for development of the project and chances are the political environment is only going to get more favourable towards public transport and a labour mayor.

We know the stage of development, there are no firm plans for any route. None because any firm plans are going to have to go through the whole planning process & public consultation before any funds are finally committed. And there's no sign of that, which would be odd if plans were at an advanced stage because the mayor would be not only aware of them but be discussing them as part of forthcoming election campaigns.

It's not like we've never seen this before, in 2001 Leeds Supertram was at a more advanced stage with routes detailed, and public consultations begun. Four years later and nothing had happened save the estimated cost inflated. That's when Leeds Supertram died on the hill.

Spades in the ground by 2028? I seriously doubt it. Just because some consultants are producing glossy presentations about what a West Yorkshire network might look like, means nothing in reality. History is littered with discarded presentations and concepts that got nowhere near the rubber stamp, and even some that did fell by the wayside further down the road.

Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than to see a West Yorkshire tram network. But we are talking about the West Yorkshire Combined Authority who are struggling to figure out what to do with Bradford Interchange bus station when it is blindingly obvious. Hell they even struggled to get a handful of new bus stops in place for the new bus routes around Bradford. And people think they can organise an entire tram network? All I will say is don't hold your breath or put any money on it.

 

[Neptune]

It's a common theme on here that people say a project isn't developed enough when they have no idea on the actual stage of development. Nearly 9 years from conception to construction is hardly fast so I see no reason why it couldn't happen. The funding is in place for development of the project and chances are the political environment is only going to get more favourable towards public transport and a labour mayor.

Of course there’s no guarantee that after 2nd May it will be a Labour Mayor.

 

[HullRailMan]

It's a common theme on here that people say a project isn't developed enough when they have no idea on the actual stage of development. Nearly 9 years from conception to construction is hardly fast so I see no reason why it couldn't happen. The funding is in place for development of the project and chances are the political environment is only going to get more favourable towards public transport and a labour mayor.

You may get a government that makes positive noises about public transport if Labour win the election, but there still won’t be the required funding. Starnes & Reeves are being very careful not to make any significant spending commitments and want to avoid the ‘tax and spend’ label. As such, how would a project like this move forward?
The fact that she is making these noises in the run up to an election tells you everything you need to know about the likelihood of it happening.

 

[Bantamzen]

Of course there’s no guarantee that after 2nd May it will be a Labour Mayor.

Or that even it the next Mayor is Labour that this would shift any priority towards a WY Tram network. I suspect an incoming Labour government is going to have way higher priorities for years to come.

 

[Ben427]

We know the stage of development, there are no firm plans for any route. None because any firm plans are going to have to go through the whole planning process & public consultation before any funds are finally committed. And there's no sign of that, which would be odd if plans were at an advanced stage because the mayor would be not only aware of them but be discussing them as part of forthcoming election campaigns.

It's not like we've never seen this before, in 2001 Leeds Supertram was at a more advanced stage with routes detailed, and public consultations begun. Four years later and nothing had happened save the estimated cost inflated. That's when Leeds Supertram died on the hill.

Spades in the ground by 2028? I seriously doubt it. Just because some consultants are producing glossy presentations about what a West Yorkshire network might look like, means nothing in reality. History is littered with discarded presentations and concepts that got nowhere near the rubber stamp, and even some that did fell by the wayside further down the road.

Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than to see a West Yorkshire tram network. But we are talking about the West Yorkshire Combined Authority who are struggling to figure out what to do with Bradford Interchange bus station when it is blindingly obvious. Hell they even struggled to get a handful of new bus stops in place for the new bus routes around Bradford. And people think they can organise an entire tram network? All I will say is don't hold your breath or put any money on it.

The phase of development that is published isn't reflective of where things actually are; they get published when they are ready for public consumption/governance processes.

As mentioned above on funding, outline funding has been allocated via CRSTS rounds which makes it slightly more challenging for future Governments to reduce, albeit not impossible.

Of course there’s no guarantee that after 2nd May it will be a Labour Mayor.

As much as a guarantee as possible, the candidates put out by other parties are absurdly weak and WY is a Labour stronghold. Turnout will be low, and the main issues for Labour in WY is Gaza (and there isn't a one issue candidate a la Galloway on this, which is a surprise in some ways).

tbh after these Mayoral elections there's a solid chance that the Metro Mayors will be all Labour (although NY&York's new mayor may well be Conservative).

 

[Bantamzen]

The phase of development that is published isn't reflective of where things actually are; they get published when they are ready for public consumption/governance processes.

As mentioned above on funding, outline funding has been allocated via CRSTS rounds which makes it slightly more challenging for future Governments to reduce, albeit not impossible.

Let's watch this space..... (the space where the spades are supposed to go in 2028)....

As I've said, I will be amazed if ground-works are underway inside of 4 years, in fact I will be gobsmacked. More so because some of the first stages proposed by West Yorkshire Combined Authority, i.e. Leeds - Bradford may well require the use of existing heavy rail, which will then need to be planned for, wired, which is still a very long time off given that TRU won't be finished until the end of the decade. You have to also plan where the lines diverge, plan those works, go through all the public consultations and opposition, plan roadworks / closures / diversions whilst the work takes place including in city centres that are both currently being reshaped, etc, etc.

Let's face it, 2028 is a political pipe dream. Its just far enough away that most people won't question it, but not so far away that people will ignore it. Its a political sweet-spot between having to do something immediately and keeping it close enough to be able to use it in political campaigning. As the GE looms, expect lots of other projects to be promised for the second half of the next government's term.