What car should I buy?

[61653 HTAFC]

I know there's been a few threads of this nature in the past, so I've decided to consult the wisdom of this forum to help me select my next car. First, a bit of background to my situation:
It'll be my first car I've owned for about 15 years, so I'm very much "out of the loop" with things. It'll also be the first time I've driven for about ten years, but don't worry- I have booked a couple of refresher lessons with a local instructor.

My budget is around £4,500, though if I can find something cheaper that ticks all (or most of) the boxes I'll go for it- I am a Yorkshireman after all!

Ideally It'll be something with a decent amount of cargo space, for this reason I've largely ruled out the smallest of superminis (Citroën C1 etc.) and am looking at things in the Astra/Focus/Golf range. Saloons are probably a no-no due to lack of height in the cargo space. I'm not averse to something a little bigger such as a Volvo V50, but absolutely don't want a ridiculous Crossover.

As I have no accumulated no-claims, I'd prefer something that won't attract a big insurance bill. Similarly with road tax I don't want to be hit too hard, although I've a bit more flexibility there as long as it isn't ridiculous. Fuel economy would be a bonus, but with the amount of miles I'm likely to cover it doesn't need to be at the very top end of the scale- especially as that will come at a premium in terms of purchase price.

Age wise I'm looking at things from around 2008-2012, though I will go older or younger depending on the specifics.

Going electric is not an option for me given my current abode... and no, I'm not going to start parking my car in the supermarket half a mile away overnight to charge, just to claim some green cred.

My only deal-breakers other than the above are: no automatics, no diesels.

At the moment having browsed online, I'm quite taken with the idea of a Mini Clubman Estate; or a Vauxhall Astra hatch. If anyone has any horror stories that might put me off, please let me know! I've already been warned about the Renault Megane of the years cited above, so if you can save me from a lemon It'll be much appreciated!

 

[Herefordian]

A friend has a Hyundai i30, 62-reg. 1.6 petrol.

I borrowed it a while ago and really liked it. It's not overly exciting to drive, but has excellent build quality and reliability.

The only reason I don't own one myself is a local garage had a Toyota Camry for sale.

 

[Gloster]

If you buy a bottom of the range Sandero, check whether it is one that allows you to fold the the rear seats down so as to give over the whole rear half to luggage: some of the bottom of the range ones don’t allow that. Even though I should be selling mine next week, it has done the job of moving lots of small items, up to the size of folding tables, across the village. Also, do check up about batteries, as it seems they take longer to charge up than they used to: I bought a battery charger of the specific type needed. (I trust I wasn‘t conned into buying an expensive one by glib salesmanship: the garage knew I wouldn’t be buying it from them.)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A friend has a Hyundai i30, 62-reg. 1.6 petrol.

I borrowed it a while ago and really liked it. It's not overly exciting to drive, but has excellent build quality and reliability.

The only reason I don't own one myself is a local garage had a Toyota Camry for sale.

Must admit I hadn't considered Japanese or Korean makes, though not for any particular reason other than the past reputation of cars from that part of the world (even if built in Europe) for being a bit dull. I've owned a Suzuki Swift in the distant past which was reliable and quite well equipped but very boring. It also had a few things that really got on my wick at times, such as the electric windows having a tendency to fall out of alignment, and the boot having a ridiculously high sill making it hard to get large items in even though there was room.
There's also the weirdness with some Asian (particularly Japanese) cars having the indicator and wiper stalks switched around from the UK convention, despite both countries also driving on the left. Even after a few years I'd occasionally flick the wipers on when changing lanes!

If you buy a bottom of the range Sandero, check whether it is one that allows you to fold the the rear seats down so as to give over the whole rear half to luggage: some of the bottom of the range ones don’t allow that. Even though I should be selling mine next week, it has done the job of moving lots of small items, up to the size of folding tables, across the village. Also, do check up about batteries, as it seems they take longer to charge up than they used to: I bought a battery charger of the specific type needed. (I trust I wasn‘t conned into buying an expensive one by glib salesmanship: the garage knew I wouldn’t be buying it from them.)

A split-folding rear seat will definitely be a plus, but as I'm highly unlikely to have more than one passenger it isn't a "must have". I may well consider a Sandero though, not least because their low cost might mean I can get one a bit newer than I could with a more "premium" model.

Thanks both for the tips- having been off the road for so long I probably have quite a few outdated perceptions about certain brands.

 

[MotCO]

With the advent of ULEZ zones, you may want to check that your ideal car is Euro 6 and ULEZ compliant. Even if you do not intend driving in London or other ULEZ zones, the growth of ULEZ zones may affect future residual values.

You may also want to run MOT history checks on any car you are thinking of buying - it will confirm the mileage has not been clocked. There are also apps you can buy which give full car histories, including any insurance claims and accident damage, often with photos. www.carvertical.com is one such site; note, I have not used it so cannot vouch for its accuracy etc.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With the advent of ULEZ zones, you may want to check that your ideal car is Euro 6 and ULEZ compliant. Even if you do not intend driving in London or other ULEZ zones, the growth of ULEZ zones may affect future residual values.

You may also want to run MOT history checks on any car you are thinking of buying - it will confirm the mileage has not been clocked. There are also apps you can buy which give full car histories, including any insurance claims and accident damage, often with photos. www.carvertical.com is one such site; note, I have not used it so cannot vouch for its accuracy etc.

My position on the way ULEZ (not "ULEZ zones", as that's like "PIN number" or "ATM machine" ) are being implemented is that if a city doesn't want my business I'll go elsewhere. Or if I absolutely need to go in I'll park at a suburban station on the outskirts and go in by public transport, which funnily enough is what I've been doing for years long before ULEZ was even thought of. If everyone buys a ULEZ-compliant car it'll improve air quality but will do zip-all for congestion.

That's a good point about histories, "clocking", etc. I have a friend who works at one of the "Car Supermarkets" (so I may end up buying there, though the prices are a bit high). He has offered to use the systems at his disposal to do any checking I might need on a potential purchase. I did say I didn't want him getting in trouble but apparently it's commonplace.

 

[DelW]

There's also the weirdness with some Asian (particularly Japanese) cars having the indicator and wiper stalks switched around from the UK convention, despite both countries also driving on the left. Even after a few years I'd occasionally flick the wipers on when changing lanes!

Assuming you mean having the indicator stalk on the right of the steering column, that *was* the British convention for many years. I think my last car with that was a 1970s MG Midget.

It actually makes much more sense to have the indicator / flasher / dipswitch stalk on the opposite side from the gearlever, since your right hand is normally going to be close to it, not away changing gear, changing the heating, tuning the radio etc.

I think we changed when an EU regulation required the position to be standardised across Europe, ignoring the fact that we drive on the other side, so lots of controls are opposite-handed. It would have made far more sense to standardise on "opposite to the gearlever", which would have kept our original layout.

Maybe switching back to that might be a "Brexit benefit" at last?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Assuming you mean having the indicator stalk on the right of the steering column, that *was* the British convention for many years. I think my last car with that was a 1970s MG Midget.

It actually makes much more sense to have the indicator / flasher / dipswitch stalk on the opposite side from the gearlever, since your right hand is normally going to be close to it, not away changing gear, changing the heating, tuning the radio etc.

I think we changed when an EU regulation required the position to be standardised across Europe, ignoring the fact that we drive on the other side, so lots of controls are opposite-handed. It would have made far more sense to standardise on "opposite to the gearlever", which would have kept our original layout.

Maybe switching back to that might be a "Brexit benefit" at last?

Must admit I wasn't aware of the history of the matter. However I learned to drive in 2001, so I instinctively follow what I learned in my instructor's Vauxhall Corsa and my mum's Ford Escort. When I first got the Suzuki it was quite tough to get used to, and I'd still occasionally slip back to the way I'd originally learned. However if ever I was in a European car for some reason, the reflex was instinctive.
Vaguely related, there's a theory that if you control for all other variables then countries which drive on the left have fewer road fatalities, due to most humans being right-side dominant... however nobody would seriously suggest that countries which drive on the right should switch, because it's harder to "retrain" the brain than it is to "train" it in the first place.

 

[MotCO]

My position on the way ULEZ (not "ULEZ zones", as that's like "PIN number" or "ATM machine" )

I thought about that as I was typing it, but ploughed on regardless.

 

[Gloster]

A split-folding rear seat will definitely be a plus, but as I'm highly unlikely to have more than one passenger it isn't a "must have". I may well consider a Sandero though, not least because their low cost might mean I can get one a bit newer than I could with a more "premium" model.

Thanks both for the tips- having been off the road for so long I probably have quite a few outdated perceptions about certain brands.

To be clear: in some of the bottom of the range you can’t fold the rear seats down in any effective way that will allow you to drive with just the two front seats and a large flat area behind. You have five seats all the time. In some models you can fold the seats down so that back of the rear seats now forms the floor of an enlarged luggage area.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To be clear: in some of the bottom of the range you can’t fold the rear seats down in any effective way that will allow you to drive with just the two front seats and a large flat area behind. You have five seats all the time. In some models you can fold the seats down so that back of the rear seats now forms the floor of an enlarged luggage area.

Thanks for the heads up. For me the only acceptable set-up is one where the seat base hinges forward, allowing the seat back to fold forwards and form a true flat (or as near as flat) load space. In the words of Walter White, no half-measures!

 

[DerekC]

I have a Skoda Fabia 1.0 estate which i really like. It has a reasonable amount of go, hasn't had a single hiccup in the six years I have owned it, has lots of room, is reasonably comfortable, reasonably cheap to insure and doesn't look bad. For the money you should be able to get a 2014 model or thereabouts.

PS - the rear seat back folds onto the squab, but the resultant load floor is flattish. It does me OK.

 

[bspahh]

With a 10 year old used car, rather than focussing on a specific make or model, I would ask around friends, family and people you trust, and see if there is anyone who has a suitable car, which they are looking to change for a good reason, and not because it needs expensive repairs.

If you look around at 15 year old cars, you see a lot more Toyotas & Hondas than Renaults and Fiats. Brands with a poor reputation for reliability are cheaper. That means they get bought by people who aim to run them into the ground, rather than paying for preventive maintenance. When stuff does go wrong, its not worth while for the manufacturers to keep good stocks of spares, and the car is more likely to get scrapped when it might have been repairable if the parts had been available.

It also helps to have a mass market car, rather than a niche model. When something goes wrong, you are more likely to find that mechanics have already fixed a similar problem, rather than having to work things out from scratch if its an unusual car.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have a Skoda Fabia 1.0 estate which i really like. It has a reasonable amount of go, hasn't had a single hiccup in the six years I have owned it, has lots of room, is reasonably comfortable, reasonably cheap to insure and doesn't look bad. For the money you should be able to get a 2014 model or thereabouts.

PS - the rear seat back folds onto the squab, but the resultant load floor is flattish. It does me OK.

The Fabia is definitely on my list of possibilities, my friend used to have an estate version (in his case a 1.4) which never gave him any trouble (apart from it used to eat batteries, until a mechanic friend suggested he disable the "auto stop-start" feature which is of limited environmental benefit anyway). He only gave it up because it was officially his dad's Motability vehicle (he was full-time carer) and his dad sadly passed away. I've heard nothing but good things about modern Škodas, so a Fabia or Octavia would be fine.

That is, as long as it isn't dark grey like my friend's was, because every time I pull into a station car park I'll have people getting in thinking I'm their minicab!

 

[MotCO]

On any used car, it is worth looking at the tyres. If the tyres are well known makes, then probably no expense has been spared on maintaining the car. If the tyres are a cheap brand from Asia which you've never heard of, then the maintenance may have been skimped.

 

[TPO]

With a 10 year old used car, rather than focussing on a specific make or model, I would ask around friends, family and people you trust, and see if there is anyone who has a suitable car, which they are looking to change for a good reason, and not because it needs expensive repairs.

If you look around at 15 year old cars, you see a lot more Toyotas & Hondas than Renaults and Fiats. Brands with a poor reputation for reliability are cheaper. That means they get bought by people who aim to run them into the ground, rather than paying for preventive maintenance. When stuff does go wrong, its not worth while for the manufacturers to keep good stocks of spares, and the car is more likely to get scrapped when it might have been repairable if the parts had been available.

It also helps to have a mass market car, rather than a niche model. When something goes wrong, you are more likely to find that mechanics have already fixed a similar problem, rather than having to work things out from scratch if its an unusual car.

This is rather important to keep running costs down on an older car. I finally parted company with my 2014 Hyundai last year (part ex) as the replacement parts for those that wore out at the expected rate were expensive as no OEM parts, just branded Hyundai ones.

Ford or Vauxhall spares tend to be cheaper, and any half decent local independant garage can work on them. Both Focus and Astra came in decent estate versions and not massively high insurance group, and the Vauxhall Insignia was a common fleet car a few years ago, lots of room in hatchback version.

I don't know what your definition of a lot of cargo space is, but might a small car-derived van suit better if carrying a lot of stuff regularly? Although more difficult to get in non-diesel version.

Avoid anything with a wet-belt. They just spell trouble, and for other types if there is no clear history, have the timing belt renewed ASAP (unless it has a chain of course).

You might also want to think about how comfortable you are with "assistive" tech in cars. E.g. The new electric handbrakes can be discomforting if you are of the generation learned to drive in a more basic vehicle (as I did). I currently run a 2007 van and a 2020 Focus. They are very different to drive, so test drives might be important to work out what you will be comfortable with..... when I bought the Focus, I went to a local reputable long established second hand car dealer, being able to test drive properly before buying was really helpful. (The van I had from a good friend who I knew had looked after it and knew its history since new.)

Usual stuff about history check for crash damage or outstanding finance, buy with your head not your heart.

TPO

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This is rather important to keep running costs down on an older car. I finally parted company with my 2014 Hyundai last year (part ex) as the replacement parts for those that wore out at the expected rate were expensive as no OEM parts, just branded Hyundai ones.

Ford or Vauxhall spares tend to be cheaper, and any half decent local independant garage can work on them. Both Focus and Astra came in decent estate versions and not massively high insurance group, and the Vauxhall Insignia was a common fleet car a few years ago, lots of room in hatchback version.

I don't know what your definition of a lot of cargo space is, but might a small car-derived van suit better if carrying a lot of stuff regularly? Although more difficult to get in non-diesel version.

Avoid anything with a wet-belt. They just spell trouble, and for other types if there is no clear history, have the timing belt renewed ASAP (unless it has a chain of course).

You might also want to think about how comfortable you are with "assistive" tech in cars. E.g. The new electric handbrakes can be discomforting if you are of the generation learned to drive in a more basic vehicle (as I did). I currently run a 2007 van and a 2020 Focus. They are very different to drive, so test drives might be important to work out what you will be comfortable with..... when I bought the Focus, I went to a local reputable long established second hand car dealer, being able to test drive properly before buying was really helpful. (The van I had from a good friend who I knew had looked after it and knew its history since new.)

Usual stuff about history check for crash damage or outstanding finance, buy with your head not your heart.

TPO

Some very good points here, thanks. I will of course test drive anything before buying, and do the history checks whether by official means or otherwise!

The cargo space thing, the large items I'll be carrying regularly will be (a) multiple sections of a model railway layout of which each is 4' in length; and (b) musical instruments in cases, specifically an acoustic bass guitar and occasionally a cello, for which I need 6' of space- though the instruments can be placed diagonally meaning I won't need a full 6' between the back of the front seats and the end of the boot. There'll probably be occasions where I'll need to carry other large items, so having the flexibility that an estate would give is something that appeals.

On your car-derived van point, this is something I've definitely considered, especially as the rear seat in any car I get will only get used once a flood. However there aren't so many of these about now, or there doesn't seem to be. I can't recall the last time I saw something resembling the old 1990s Vauxhall Astra vans which were just a 3-door estate with blank panels in place of rear windows and no rear seat. Something like a Ford Transit Connect would work, or whatever the van version of the Renault Kangoo is called. As you say, these will mostly be diesels but the Renaults did offer a petrol version. Not sure if Ford ever did a petrol Connect though.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Trabant
Lada
Yugo
Wartburg

 

[david1212]

I have a Skoda Fabia 1.0 estate which i really like. It has a reasonable amount of go, hasn't had a single hiccup in the six years I have owned it, has lots of room, is reasonably comfortable, reasonably cheap to insure and doesn't look bad. For the money you should be able to get a 2014 model or thereabouts.

PS - the rear seat back folds onto the squab, but the resultant load floor is flattish. It does me OK.

The Fabia is definitely on my list of possibilities, my friend used to have an estate version (in his case a 1.4) which never gave him any trouble (apart from it used to eat batteries, until a mechanic friend suggested he disable the "auto stop-start" feature which is of limited environmental benefit anyway). He only gave it up because it was officially his dad's Motability vehicle (he was full-time carer) and his dad sadly passed away. I've heard nothing but good things about modern Škodas, so a Fabia or Octavia would be fine. .....

I have not looked at what you can buy with your budget. For modern Škodas the unique parts generally seem fine while the problems are the parts common across VAG. You have already ruled out diesel so will avoid the 1.6CR but for the 1.0 TSi you need the revised version from around 2013. I believe but check that if the VED is £20 / £30 it is revised but if £150 ish not so avoid. The TSi must have the cam belt changed every 5 years / 60k miles for which even an independent charges £400+. You need proof that the 5 year change was done then safer to negotiate the price and get the 10 year change done yourself than find out the hard way in reality not done. I don't know if this applies to the MPi HTP engine too.

VAG - Volkswagon Audi Group
VED - Vehicle Excise Duty, also known as car tax or road tax
1.6 CR is the series name for this diesel engine range
1.0 TSi is the series name for the higher power petrol engine range
1.0 HTP is the series name for the low power petrol engine range

 

[Stuwhu]

Nissan Jukes are reliable good cars

 

[MotCO]

Nissan Jukes are reliable good cars

At least if you are driving one, you don't need to see the outside of it

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have not looked at what you can buy with your budget. For modern Škodas the unique parts generally seem fine while the problems are the parts common across VAG. You have already ruled out diesel so will avoid the 1.6CR but for the 1.0 TSi you need the revised version from around 2013. I believe but check that if the RFL is £20 / £30 it is revised but if £150 ish not so avoid. The TSi must have the cam belt changed every 5 years / 60k miles for which even an independent charges £400+. You need proof that the 5 year change was done then safer to negotiate the price and get the 10 year change done yourself than find out the hard way in reality not done. I don't know if this applies to the MPi engine too.

Thanks- could you clarify some of the abbreviations you've used? VAG I recognise as Volkswagen Group, and guess the others are trim levels? Apart from RFL which (apart from Rugby Football League) is presumably what is colloquially called road tax?

Diesels aren't necessarily an absolute deal-breaker, though automatics are.

Nissan Jukes are reliable good cars

They also look awful, and I definitely don't want a Crossover or something trying and failing to be a Crossover!

 

[dgl]

For Focus sized (small family) that might be available in your budget you'd be looking at something like the Hyundai i30, KIA 'Ceed, Toyota Corolla/Auris, Volvo C30/V40 or Honda Civic as the most reliable, or if going for something a bit larger then you'd be looking at a Hyundai i40, Kia Magentis/Optima, Toyota Avensis, Volvo V50/V70, Honda Accord. Suzuki might have something but apart from the Liana and the wierd Kizashi bigger cars in their line are mainly limited to SUV's.
On Japanese cars it can be sensible to check for rust issues, they weren't always the best rust proofed cars as the local market doesn't have the same rust issues as they don't really salt their roads in the winter like we do.

 

[bspahh]

Diesels aren't necessarily an absolute deal-breaker, though automatics are.

For bigger cars, and vans, there will be more with diesels than petrol engines in your price range. The ULEZ zones will depress the value of diesels near London. A van will have less sound proofing than a car, and might also get targeted by thieves looking for tools.

If you need to carry a 6 foot long instrument, then you would probably need to fit it diagonally into a Focus/C-Max boot. A Mondeo/S-Max would fit it lengthways. 4 foot long layouts will be easy in any of those, but you might find the width between the rear wheel arches is a limit.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

For Focus sized (small family) that might be available in your budget you'd be looking at something like the Hyundai i30, KIA 'Ceed, Toyota Corolla/Auris, Volvo C30/V40 or Honda Civic as the most reliable, or if going for something a bit larger then you'd be looking at a Hyundai i40, Kia Magentis/Optima, Toyota Avensis, Volvo V50/V70, Honda Accord. Suzuki might have something but apart from the Liana and the wierd Kizashi bigger cars in their line are mainly limited to SUV's.
On Japanese cars it can be sensible to check for rust issues, they weren't always the best rust proofed cars as the local market doesn't have the same rust issues as they don't really salt their roads in the winter like we do.

I'm probably going to go European, though I wouldn't rule out others. The Volvo C30 is a car I really like from a looks point of view, but I doubt it would be suitable for the loads I occasionally carry. I did see a V40 (***Correction- it's a V50***) estate on AutoTrader the other day that was within my budget, so if it's still available after the Bank Holiday I'll try and get over to Halifax to view it.

For bigger cars, and vans, there will be more with diesels than petrol engines in your price range. The ULEZ zones will depress the value of diesels near London. A van will have less sound proofing than a car, and might also get targeted by thieves looking for tools.

If you need to carry a 6 foot long instrument, then you would probably need to fit it diagonally into a Focus/C-Max boot. A Mondeo/S-Max would fit it lengthways. 4 foot long layouts will be easy in any of those, but you might find the width between the rear wheel arches is a limit.

Good point about vans and theft, especially where I live. I've already found that my insurance will be expensive for that reason (I've a few moans about insurance but that's for another topic). I'd prefer a car anyway simply because although I won't be carrying more than one passenger very often, having the option would be useful occasionally.

 

[Snow1964]

On any used car, it is worth looking at the tyres. If the tyres are well known makes, then probably no expense has been spared on maintaining the car. If the tyres are a cheap brand from Asia which you've never heard of, then the maintenance may have been skimped.

Yes I have heard that too, and if it has 4 mismatched budget brands then the owner probably did bare minimum (maybe not even doing recommended minimum) in maintenance. Just changing things when they broke and couldn't be used any longer.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Nissan Jukes are reliable good cars

Reliable maybe but everything else, just no

 

[90019]

I'm probably going to go European, though I wouldn't rule out others. The Volvo C30 is a car I really like from a looks point of view, but I doubt it would be suitable for the loads I occasionally carry. I did see a V40 (***Correction- it's a V50***) estate on AutoTrader the other day that was within my budget, so if it's still available after the Bank Holiday I'll try and get over to Halifax to view it.

I used to have a C30, and with the seats down there's a lot more space in it than you might expect.

The 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 petrols are all good engines, the 1.6 being Ford's Duratec and the other two the Mazda L series.

Mine was the 1.6 and in the 3 years I had it, the worst problem I had was a slight misfire that was solved with a new set of ht leads.
I sold it to one of my friends a couple of years ago and he's had no issues with it.

 

[david1212]

Thanks- could you clarify some of the abbreviations you've used? VAG I recognise as Volkswagen Group, and guess the others are trim levels? Apart from RFL which (apart from Rugby Football League) is presumably what is colloquially called road tax?

Post edited

Diesels aren't necessarily an absolute deal-breaker, though automatics are.

Don't touch the VAG 1.6 CR diesel, not so much the actual engine but the emissions control including DPF (diesel particulate filter) and EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve.

On any used car, it is worth looking at the tyres. If the tyres are well known makes, then probably no expense has been spared on maintaining the car. If the tyres are a cheap brand from Asia which you've never heard of, then the maintenance may have been skimped.

Yes I have heard that too, and if it has 4 mismatched budget brands then the owner probably did bare minimum (maybe not even doing recommended minimum) in maintenance. Just changing things when they broke and couldn't be used any longer.

Certainly a consideration but now with so many sizes National Tyres, Kwik-Fit etc only have a limited stock so if an urgent replacement is needed you have to take what is available. VAG choose a common size for the steel wheels on the base model then an odd ball on the alloy wheels to get the same rolling circumference / diameter. Sizes like 205/45/16 and 215/45/16 are relatively expensive compared to 185/60/15 and 195/60/15.

At best the cheap brands, which as stated are mostly from Asia, rarely wear well while the generic term Ditch-Finders comes from the lack of grip. I chuckle every time I see Landsail and Sailun as I relate to controlling a sailing boat rather than a car. A while ago National Tyres sold Wanli. A test was done at just 30mph with these against a premium brand and the stopping distance was a car length more, the difference between running into something or stopping short which worst case could be a child.

 

[greyman42]

Mazda 3.