What car should I buy?

[61653 HTAFC]

Have you looked at Suzuki Vitara /SX4 for your budget? Suzuki build surprisingly robust cars. My wife's 2017 S-Cross is a pleasure to be driven in.

Here's an example, Vitara in manual, 2011, 72k miles, £4.5k

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Sx4s I'd consider. I've owned a Suzuki in the past (a 1996 Swift) which had a few annoying foibles about it but never once broke down on me other than a puncture which of course could happen with anything. As mentioned above, cars generally are pretty reliable as a rule and have been for a while unless you're unlucky and get a lemon.
I'd be avoiding a Vitara though, I'm very much not a fan of 4×4s/SUVs/Crossovers/whatever people are classing them as this week.

 

[MotCO]

The differences are in the running costs. With a used car in your price range, the most significant one will be from repair bills if something expensive goes wrong, or from an intermittent fault that will be a nightmare to identify.

I've had a number of Vauxhalls (Cavalier, Zafira and Zafira) and driven them for 80,000, 120,000 and 130,000 miles. Apart from routine maintenance and changing timing belts, I did not have any really significant repair bills, and never changed any exhaust or clutch.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've had a number of Vauxhalls (Cavalier, Zafira and Zafira) and driven them for 80,000, 120,000 and 130,000 miles. Apart from routine maintenance and changing timing belts, I did not have any really significant repair bills, and never changed any exhaust or clutch.

We were mostly a Vauxhall family when I was growing up (well my dad was, my mum's first three cars were all Fords) so I do have a degree of loyalty there. I've looked at Astras and Insignias, an Astra estate is certainly on my list of possibilities. Wouldn't rule out a Zafira but as I'm unlikely to ever need the seven seats it would be a bit overkill for my purposes. Had a look at a Meriva (the slightly smaller MPV) and the interior felt very cheap and plasticky, so I'm ruling those out.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Also from the General Motors group, I enjoyed five years and more than 100k miles with a Saab 9-3. Hirsch Aero spec, meaning nearly 300hp out of its silky V6. Bulletproof reliability.

Sadly it had to go when my son no longer fitted in the rear.

Apart from being a petrol and a manual - and £4,400 with my previous car as part exchange - I don't think it would meet the OP's criteria!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Also from the General Motors group, I enjoyed five years and more than 100k miles with a Saab 9-3. Hirsch Aero spec, meaning nearly 300hp out of its silky V6. Bulletproof reliability.

Sadly it had to go when my son no longer fitted in the rear.

Apart from being a petrol and a manual - and £4,400 with my previous car as part exchange - I don't think it would meet the OP's criteria!

That would certainly be a "heart" rather than a "head" purchase!

Not sure a soft-top would last five minutes parked outside my building in Batley, though with the top down I could probably fit my bass in there!

 

[Eyersey468]

I've had a number of Vauxhalls (Cavalier, Zafira and Zafira) and driven them for 80,000, 120,000 and 130,000 miles. Apart from routine maintenance and changing timing belts, I did not have any really significant repair bills, and never changed any exhaust or clutch.

I'm on my 4th Ford and like you haven't had any really significant repair bills. I did have to replace the clutch on my 2nd Fiesta but the car had done 155k at the time

 

[MotCO]

I'm on my 4th Ford and like you haven't had any really significant repair bills. I did have to replace the clutch on my 2nd Fiesta but the car had done 155k at the time

Given our experiences, why do they not do better in reliability tables?

 

[birchesgreen]

Given our experiences, why do they not do better in reliability tables?

I think with mass market cars you will get a larger proportion of people who do not drive them with care or some basic common sense.

My 06 Fiesta was finally replaced last year but is still going strong with a new owner and has had very little needed doing to it in it's life apart from a new water pump and some suspension bits after it encountered a few naughty potholes.

 

[8A Rail]

.................... Ideally It'll be something with a decent amount of cargo space, for this reason I've largely ruled out the smallest of superminis (Citroën C1 etc.) and am looking at things in the Astra/Focus/Golf range. Saloons are probably a no-no due to lack of height in the cargo space. I'm not averse to something a little bigger such as a Volvo V50, but absolutely don't want a ridiculous Crossover. .........................

If you are able to find a good second hand Volvo V50 especially with service history, you will not go far wrong there. A good level of comfort, well equipped and plenty of cargo space too. Personally a 2.0L diesel turbo recommended as you will get about 40mpg around town etc but downside is diesel a little dearer than petrol. Someone mentioned a Mk2 Ford Focus is a better option, not sure how in comparison, the connection between Ford and Volvo for the V40 / V50 as far as I am aware was the Mondeo floor pan rather than the Focus.

 

[class90021]

You should buy an Audi A3 the new one is pretty expesnsive but you could always gor for the 2005 model or the 2012 one!

You should buy an Audi A3 the new one is pretty expesnsive but you could always gor for the 2005 model or the 2012 one!

The car is pretty reliable.

 

[Eyersey468]

I think with mass market cars you will get a larger proportion of people who do not drive them with care or some basic common sense.

My 06 Fiesta was finally replaced last year but is still going strong with a new owner and has had very little needed doing to it in it's life apart from a new water pump and some suspension bits after it encountered a few naughty potholes.

I agree

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You should buy an Audi A3 the new one is pretty expesnsive but you could always gor for the 2005 model or the 2012 one!


The car is pretty reliable.

They're on my list of possibles, but are also quite expensive compared to other contenders of a similar age, and seem to all have a lot of miles on them. They're also popular with the boy-racer types so finding one that's both affordable and hasn't been thrashed will be quite difficult. I've looked at a couple of A4 estates as my dad had one which was a joy to drive... but again they've generally been driven pretty hard if they're in my price range.

Must admit that an Audi or BMW does appeal, not least because I'll be able to give everyone a pleasant surprise by using my indicators appropriately!

 

[Snow1964]

I've looked at a couple of A4 estates as my dad had one which was a joy to drive... but again they've generally been driven pretty hard if they're in my price range.

The old Audi A4 estate reappeared later as the Seat Exeo
Subsequently replaced by Seat Leon estate (still on sale)

There are many common parts in VW group cars, (Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat), but my advice with older car is keep it simple, the more bits fitted to it are just more to go wrong, and obscure parts are expensive

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The old Audi A4 estate reappeared later as the Seat Exeo
Subsequently replaced by Seat Leon estate (still on sale)

There are many common parts in VW group cars, (Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat), but my advice with older car is keep it simple, the more bits fitted to it are just more to go wrong, and obscure parts are expensive

That's a good point regarding VW group, though there's a premium with the more "prestige" brands (Audi & VW) compared with Seat and Škoda. I'm definitely applying the 'KISS' principle, which is one aspect in favour of the Mini Clubmans (Clubmen? ) as the earlier ones don't have a silly touchscreen in place of good old fashioned switches and knobs. With the distraction that smartphones present to those daft enough to use them behind the wheel, I'm not sure which idiot thought it was a good idea to have things like heaters and aircon controlled by a touchscreen!

There was mention somewhere (possibly another thread, possibly a thread on another website entirely) that mentioned avoiding French diesels because of having to faff about with AdBlue. As I've mentioned I'm out of the loop with modern(ish) cars, so what exactly would this entail? More importantly is it a bit of a red herring?. I'm quite keen on the Peugeot 207 SW and the Renault Clio Touring, but most of them seem to be diesels (especially the Pugs) so is this something better avoided?

 

[Snow1964]

There was mention somewhere (possibly another thread, possibly a thread on another website entirely) that mentioned avoiding French diesels because of having to faff about with AdBlue. As I've mentioned I'm out of the loop with modern(ish) cars, so what exactly would this entail? More importantly is it a bit of a red herring?. I'm quite keen on the Peugeot 207 SW and the Renault Clio Touring, but most of them seem to be diesels (especially the Pugs) so is this something better avoided?

Very generally from 2016 emissions rules were tightened up, euro6 was introduced (the exact date that changes took place varies a few months by models prior to deadline). The earlier diesels usually do not meet low emission zone rules (LEZ rules vary by city)

When euro6 was introduced most couldn't meet it and adding ad blu (a synthetic urea, or pee if you prefer) needs to be added to separate reservoir was part of the solution. Early ones often had these in odd places although later smaller blue filler caps were added near diesel fuel tank. Even with these most still couldn't meet euro6 and all sorts of temporary weaker standards applied for few years (will see something like euro6d temp). Over time complicated and hugely expensive to repair extra emissions gear was added to diesel engines.

Diesels were popular for few years, there was a lower tax for a while as it used CO2 emissions ignoring total emissions (diesels are higher NOx and particulates). But now everyone realises all the extra emissions equipment is very costly (often about £2k extra new for diesel over petrol version), and the new equipment is prone to clogging up if don't do a minimum 30-45 minute journey regularly to get it hot enough to do a regeneration. Less than 1 in 25 new cars in UK is now diesel (excluding diesel hybrids which are obviously even more complicated).

The reason why you are finding more diesels on sale is they are harder to sell and stick around unsold, the petrols sell quickly, people now opt for easier to maintain petrols because worried about £1500+ bills to sort clogged diesel emission filters.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Very generally from 2016 emissions rules were tightened up, euro6 was introduced (the exact date that changes took place varies a few months by models prior to deadline). The earlier diesels usually do not meet low emission zone rules (LEZ rules vary by city)

When euro6 was introduced most couldn't meet it and adding ad blu (a synthetic urea, or pee if you prefer) needs to be added to separate reservoir was part of the solution. Early ones often had these in odd places although later smaller blue filler caps were added near diesel fuel tank. Even with these most still couldn't meet euro6 and all sorts of temporary weaker standards applied for few years (will see something like euro6d temp). Over time complicated and hugely expensive to repair extra emissions gear was added to diesel engines.

Diesels were popular for few years, there was a lower tax for a while as it used CO2 emissions ignoring total emissions (diesels are higher NOx and particulates). But now everyone realises all the extra emissions equipment is very costly (often about £2k extra new for diesel over petrol version), and the new equipment is prone to clogging up if don't do a minimum 30-45 minute journey regularly to get it hot enough to do a regeneration. Less than 1 in 25 new cars in UK is now diesel (excluding diesel hybrids which are obviously even more complicated).

The reason why you are finding more diesels on sale is they are harder to sell and stick around unsold, the petrols sell quickly, people now opt for easier to maintain petrols because worried about £1500+ bills to sort clogged diesel emission filters.

Thanks. Think another reason there are more diesels in the age range and types I'm looking at, is that diesels were being actively encouraged at the time those cars were made... that aged well, didn't it?

I was vaguely aware of what AdBlu was, but thought it was more of a commercial vehicle thing. Some of the CAZ rules only apply to commercial vehicles too, though there are also a fair few myths circulating on that front. I'm personally not affected (yet) by any ULEZ/CAZ bits, so may save a bit on that front. If I've got a non-compliant car and need to visit a zone, I'll just use the train or bus and ease congestion as well as pollution.

 

[Sun Chariot]

....diesels ... are harder to sell and stick around unsold..

Totally agree. My current car is a diesel; I bought it at eleven months old (dealership demonstrator with barely any miles) and it had nearly 50% off list price primarily due to it being a diesel.

 

[greyman42]

Totally agree. My current car is a diesel; I bought it at eleven months old (dealership demonstrator with barely any miles) and it had nearly 50% off list price primarily due to it being a diesel.

Sounds like a great deal!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Sounds like a great deal!

It shows how big the dealership profit margins are, if they can cut the price in half!

 

[greyman42]

It shows how big the dealership profit margins are, if they can cut the price in half!

Supply and demand i suppose.

 

[Eyersey468]

It shows how big the dealership profit margins are, if they can cut the price in half!

They may well have been making the money up by the bonuses etc they get for meeting sales targets

 

[DelW]

I'm definitely applying the 'KISS' principle, which is one aspect in favour of the Mini Clubmans (Clubmen? ) as the earlier ones don't have a silly touchscreen in place of good old fashioned switches and knobs. With the distraction that smartphones present to those daft enough to use them behind the wheel, I'm not sure which idiot thought it was a good idea to have things like heaters and aircon controlled by a touchscreen!

I don't know if the same applies to the Clubman, but my 2020 Countryman (model introduced in 2017) still has physical controls for lights, wipers, HVAC and most radio / audio functions.

There is a touchscreen, mainly for navigation, trip computer and menus, but crucially, all its functions can be accessed and controlled using a multiway control just behind the gear lever. That's much easier to use than trying to hover a fingertip over the screen. I imagine a Clubman from the same era would be similar.

I can't believe that Tesla stick functions like lights and wiper controls on the central screen. It would be interesting to know whether they are more prone than other makes to shunts into vehicles in front.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Skoda Superb. There are loads out there for good prices. The space inside is enormous.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Skoda Superb. There are loads out there for good prices. The space inside is enormous.

A lot of car for the money (I love the L&K spec!) but I haven't seen a good one listed within the OP's £4500 budget

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't know if the same applies to the Clubman, but my 2020 Countryman (model introduced in 2017) still has physical controls for lights, wipers, HVAC and most radio / audio functions.

There is a touchscreen, mainly for navigation, trip computer and menus, but crucially, all its functions can be accessed and controlled using a multiway control just behind the gear lever. That's much easier to use than trying to hover a fingertip over the screen. I imagine a Clubman from the same era would be similar.

I can't believe that Tesla stick functions like lights and wiper controls on the central screen. It would be interesting to know whether they are more prone than other makes to shunts into vehicles in front.

The ones I've looked at (from around 2008-2010) were satisfyingly old-school in terms of controls. No built-in satnav or touchscreens, just buttons and dials for the things you're likely to need while driving such as the heater, radio, aircon etc. Lights and wipers on stalks as nature intended.

Tesla strike me as very much style over substance, with features added simply because they give the "wow factor" rather than because there was a need for it. Their well-known head-honcho is notorious for "vapourware", and if I had the money for one of his cars I'd still give them a wide berth... especially if they were in "self-driving" mode!

A lot of car for the money (I love the L&K spec!) but I haven't seen a good one listed within the OP's £4500 budget

I've seen a couple online, but they were in Dundee and Bristol (iirc) so not really suitable, and had quite high mileage. I've also reduced my budget to £3.5k, due to the cost of insurance having not driven for so long. I've been tempted by the Octavia which is a little smaller but still plenty big enough.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

--------- New Post 10/10/23 ------------
(Turns out that wasn't needed- when did that change? )

Well I've found my next car now, so thanks to all who offered advice even if I wasn't always the most receptive. Decided to avoid diesels altogether and went for a Seat Ibiza estate with a smallish petrol motor. Reasonably cheap to insure even with no NCB. Test-drove it and it ticked pretty much all the boxes. Had also test-driven one of the Renault Clio Tourers and the Seat felt like much more car for the money.
The Renault felt like a small car that had been stretched, the Seat felt like a big car that had been shrunk!

 

[birchesgreen]

Ibiza is a decent car, my friend has had one for over 10 years and never let him down.

 

[Jamesrob637]

You basically bought a Polo. Good choice!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Diesels aren't necessarily an absolute deal-breaker, though automatics are.

I drive an automatic but that is because I found driving a manual harder to drive. Plus with an automatic you find yourself focusing more on the hazards ahead whilst driving.

The motors I suggest that you look into are the estate versions of the:
- Fiat Tipo
- Ford Focus
- Vauxhall Astra
- Renault Megan

I know that three on the list also come with a spare tyre, tools and a jack. Vauxhall also chuck in jump leads too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I drive an automatic but that is because I found driving a manual harder to drive. Plus with an automatic you find yourself focusing more on the hazards ahead whilst driving.

The motors I suggest that you look into are the estate versions of the:
- Fiat Tipo
- Ford Focus
- Vauxhall Astra
- Renault Megan

I know that three on the list also come with a spare tyre, tools and a jack. Vauxhall also chuck in jump leads too.

Of those, no Fiats came up in my searches so I assume they're pretty rare, and I dislike Focuses (Focusi?) just on personal taste. I did look at a couple of Astras (and Insignias) and Meganes. They were on my final shortlist alongside the Pugs of varying sizes; the Clio Tourers; and of course the VAG offerings from their assorted brands- which turned out to be the eventual winner.