What Class 170's are compatible with?

[Halifaxlad]

Hello all,

I know class 170s have the same type of coupling as classes 158's, 155's, 153's, 144's & 142's but could someone please confirm whenever or not they are also electronically compatible and whenever or not it is possible to run them in a combination of any of the aformentioned classes?

Thanks,

 

[alangla]

In Scotland they regularly run tied to 158s and West Midlands Trains tow 153s round with theirs, so basically anything they can work with.

 

[DanNCL]

170s can mechanically couple with classes 142, 143, 144, 150, 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, 165, 166, 168 and 172. They're also electronically compatible with classes 150, 153, 155, 156, 158 and 172.

170s regularly run paired with 153s in the West Midlands, and sometimes run paired with 158s in Scotland. Pairings with 150s, 156s and 172s are much less common but can and do occasionally occur. Not sure one has ever coupled with a 155 though.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Thanks all, also forgot to ask in my initial posting, do they have selective door opening?

 

[gingertom]

Hello all,

I know class 170s have the same type of coupling as classes 158's, 155's, 153's, 144's & 142's but could someone please confirm whenever or not they are also electronically compatible and whenever or not it is possible to run them in a combination of any of the aformentioned classes?

Thanks,

170s have been known to run with 158s here in Scotland on a regular basis. I do believe that they have also partnered 156s on occasions.

 

[Highlandspring]

Thanks all, also forgot to ask in my initial posting, do they have selective door opening?

The ScotRail batches at least have a rudimentary form of SDO which has never been used in anger.

 

[gingertom]

The ScotRail batches at least have a rudimentary form of SDO which has never been used in anger.

can't imagine where it would be needed.
IIRC there's a regular evening peak 7-car working of a 170 coupled to a pair of 158s between Aberdeen and Inverurie. It splits at Inverurie with the 158s heading back to Aberdeen and the 170 continuing to Inverness. That'll stop once the HSTs are introduced, but with work on partially redoubling the line extra paths will allow additional trains to operate = net gain

 

[TheEdge]

AGA 170s can and do work with our 153s and 156s in service.

I have a feeling they are generally banned from being coupled to 14x's except in an emergency.

 

[nottsnurse]

Bit of a mixed bag here.

(Not my photo)

 

[Bertie the bus]

170s can mechanically couple with classes 142, 143, 144, 150, 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, 165, 166, 168 and 172. They're also electronically compatible with classes 150, 153, 155, 156, 158 and 172.

I don't understand that. Are you saying a 170 can couple to a Pacer but wouldn't be able to operate in service with one? All Sprinter types operate with Pacers and if all Sprinter types can operate with 170s then surely a 170 must be electronically compatible with a Pacer.

 

[DanNCL]

I don't understand that. Are you saying a 170 can couple to a Pacer but wouldn't be able to operate in service with one? All Sprinter types operate with Pacers and if all Sprinter types can operate with 170s then surely a 170 must be electronically compatible with a Pacer.

Logically that would be the case, but there isn't much logic on the railway these days...

That is correct, a 170 can couple to a Pacer but couldn't operate in service with one. I'm not entirely certain why that is, but if i remember correctly it's something to do with the pa system.

 

[Ianno87]

Thanks all, also forgot to ask in my initial posting, do they have selective door opening?

XC use it at Manea and/or Whittlesea

 

[craigybagel]

Thanks all, also forgot to ask in my initial posting, do they have selective door opening?

WMT use SDO regularly on 4 car sets on both the Shrewsbury and Rugeley lines.

 

[grumblingalong]

Thanks all, also forgot to ask in my initial posting, do they have selective door opening?

Yes, referred to as "deselect" in Anglia. Used regularly at Kennett, Brundall Gardens, Haddiscoe, Buckenham(!), Gunton, Roughton Road, Sheringham, Spooner Row, Manea and Whittlesea.

 

[nottsnurse]

I have a feeling they are generally banned from being coupled to 14x's except in an emergency.

Isn't it something to do with the gearboxes fitted to them not being a good match?

 

[Geeves]

142s can run with 90mph 158s with no issue so I dont think its that. It will most likely be a mod required to the train wires on the 142. I would imagine if you tried to couple a 142 to 170 it would sound the fire bells (or have problems with the PA system as DanNCL says) in one of the units or set off some alarm in the cabs anyway. I would imagine there is no reason why the mod could not be done just that up until Northern gained 170s there was just no need to spend the money doing it.

Could well be wrong!

 

[BMIFlyer]

Class 17x units are not electrically compatible with class 14x units. The electrical box on the coupler of the 170 has to be isolated prior to coupling.

There is usually a notice (near the couple button) in the 17x cab (at least on the TPE 170's there was).

 

[Ih8earlies]

What If you had a 15x unit between thr 170 and the 14x units?

 

[Strathclyder]

As mentioned upthread, S.R's 156s & 170s only rarely work together. It's normally a ECS movement when it does happen, but in normal passenger-carrying service? Extremely rare. Indeed, I can only remember one instance of it within the last 8 years. A ex-SPT 170 was involved, if I remember correctly. There was a video of it up on Youtube, but it was annoyingly taken down; I'd link it to this post otherwise. :/

 

[dk1]

I've taken a 3-car 170+153 combo on a Norwich-Cambridge after football & the 05:10 (SX) Norwich-Cromer/Sheringham can frequently produce this formation in traffic. Obviously hundreds of times in ECS moves too.

 

[Kneedown]

Thanks all, also forgot to ask in my initial posting, do they have selective door opening?

Don't know about these days, but in Central Trains days it depended on the sub class. The /5's and /6's built for Central had Guard operated "Door Deselect", but the initial batch buolt for Midland Mainline which we inherited had no form of it. If you were booked a 3 car 170 on an all stopper back from Lincoln and a /1 appeared on it there were inevitable "Not to call" orders issued for short platforms.

 

[Intercity Exec]

Don't know about these days, but in Central Trains days it depended on the sub class. The /5's and /6's built for Central had Guard operated "Door Deselect", but the initial batch buolt for Midland Mainline which we inherited had no form of it. If you were booked a 3 car 170 on an all stopper back from Lincoln and a /1 appeared on it there were inevitable "Not to call" orders issued for short platforms.

The 170/1s did have door deselect from new, but as you correctly state it wasn't the guard form that you describe, instead it was driver operated and as such a driver was required to go to a stop board located beyond the platform, deselect and release the doors, this left the doors on the leading carriage locked and all others in the formation released.

 

[route101]

As mentioned upthread, S.R's 156s & 170s only rarely work together. It's normally a ECS movement when it does happen, but in normal passenger-carrying service? Extremely rare. Indeed, I can only remember one instance of it within the last 8 years. A ex-SPT 170 was involved, if I remember correctly. There was a video of it up on Youtube, but it was annoyingly taken down; I'd link it to this post otherwise. :/

Not seen one in a long time , infact i cannot remember what service it was . I think there 156 and 158 combo on the Shotts line last year.

 

[craigybagel]

There is also the infamous tale from Central Trains days, of a 153 being attached to the back of a 170 on a Nottingham - Birmingham service, unbeknownst to the driver who proceeded at 100 mph. The 153 allegedly needed a new engine after that....

 

[northwichcat]

There is also the infamous tale from Central Trains days, of a 153 being attached to the back of a 170 on a Nottingham - Birmingham service, unbeknownst to the driver who proceeded at 100 mph. The 153 allegedly needed a new engine after that....

Someone claimed when that happened (which may or may not the working you are referring to) the 153 arrived having emptied it's oil tank.

 

[causton]

Not seen one in a long time , infact i cannot remember what service it was

I saw one (170+156) last week leaving Queen Street although as I was on a 365 I didn't get the best photo!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LDQcrWB29RNLvoo77

Using RTT it would have been the 1020 to Alloa.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I find it a bit odd when a 75mph train is coupled to a 90 / 100mph train - does this mean the faster train has to act like it has the same horsepower as the train with the lowest top speed? Not a good look unless you desperately need an extra carriage or 2 .

 

[edwin_m]

There is also the infamous tale from Central Trains days, of a 153 being attached to the back of a 170 on a Nottingham - Birmingham service, unbeknownst to the driver who proceeded at 100 mph. The 153 allegedly needed a new engine after that....

Bit surprised they didn't notice when changing ends at Derby...

I find it a bit odd when a 75mph train trains is coupled to a 90 / 100mph train - does this mean the faster train has to act like it has the same horsepower as the train with the lowest top speed? Not a good look unless you desperately need an extra carriage or 2 .

No, the whole formation has to be driven at the lowest maximum speed of the coupled units (see above). There will be some mismatch in acceleration which results in tension or compression in the couplings, but not as much as hauling or propelling a dead unit (which the couplings are designed to do).

 

[craigybagel]

Bit surprised they didn't notice when changing ends at Derby...

Good point! Must have been just from Derby if the story is even true. I've heard it mentioned a few times though on various forums.

No, the whole formation has to be driven at the lowest maximum speed of the coupled units (see above). There will be some mismatch in acceleration which results in tension or compression in the couplings, but not as much as hauling or propelling a dead unit (which the couplings are designed to do).

Having dispatched from near the point two mismatched units have been coupled (usually 150 + 158 at my TOC) on many occasions, I can testify that there is often a noticeable difference in the performance of the two units, and a fair bit of a jolt as a result.

 

[dk1]

15X units will happily cruise along at 87-89mph in their own company let alone when attached to 170s. Damn these OTMR days.