What freight trains do we need?

[EcsWhyZee]

With the government (supposedly) now supporting a bi modal future for U.K. rail freight I had a few theoretical questions I thought it might be interesting to discuss.

Lets use the admittedly naive idea that if 25kV AC or 3rd Rail DC exists a given train will be fully powered by that method.

Under these conditions what % of freight (and which major routes) could we currently electrify throughout?

How much does the answer change if we provide trains that can go 50 operational miles (25 miles there, 25 miles back + reserve) on some other method (presumably diesel or hydrogen or battery)?

 

[Dr Hoo]

You have rightly identified that the majority of freight terminals are not electrified, hence some sort of bi-mode capability is going to be necessary for many flows. Several hundred miles of additional electrification on main freight axes would help though.

There is no current example of a meaningful battery or hydrogen locomotive suitable to shift a heavy freight train for 50 miles, so it would have to be diesel. There are only a few Class 88 electro-diesels at the moment. (I am discounting the Class 73s for this purpose as they are rather too small for most modern freight loads.)

 

[swt_passenger]

I wouldn’t necessarily assume freight can make much use of third rail, most DC areas are operating with only just enough power to meet the passenger service.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

It’s almost as if what we really need is a couple of electrified exchange sidings next to terminals, such that the electric locos can drop in and a shunter-type engine can pull the trainload in the last half a mile.

And then on other flows, just swap locos at major terminals. Mossend, Millerhill, Carlisle, Tyne, Doncaster, Crewe (etc) all represent good examples.

 

[popeter45]

for intermodal freight wonder if a BMU akin to the japannese M250 series EMU's could work, pantos and transformers at each end with smaller engines thruout the rest of the train

 

[Speed43125]

for intermodal freight wonder if a BMU akin to the japannese M250 series EMU's could work, pantos and transformers at each end with smaller engines thruout the rest of the train

Where throughout the rest of the train? I don't think the loading gauge would permit underframe mounted diesel engines. Even fitting traction equipment underneath a current container wagon would probably prove impossible due to how low they are in the UK.

 

[furnessvale]

Keep it simple. Don't tinker with the wagons with ideas of separate engines etc.

All future electrics should be like the 88. Last mile diesel to serve the sidings BUT with that little bit more diesel, as the 88 has, to get it out of the way should there be an emergency diversion etc.

All future diesels should be true bi-mode with a full electric capability alongside the full diesel. In the meantime, a class 66 should be re-engineered into a full bi-mode to prove the concept.

 

[Energy]

A bimode locomotive will not be hard, a few manufacturers already offer bimode locomotives. Stadler have already built a bimode locomotive for HVLE in Germany which has 2.8kW of diesel engine power (for reference a class 66 has around 2.4kW) and can operate on 25kV overhead wires.

 

[HSTEd]

Where throughout the rest of the train? I don't think the loading gauge would permit underframe mounted diesel engines. Even fitting traction equipment underneath a current container wagon would probably prove impossible due to how low they are in the UK.

If they are using pocket wagons, they inevitably have air space over the bogies for obvious reasons.
But isn't the trend away from low-liner type wagons towards more conventional flat deck vehicles?

 

[popeter45]

A bimode locomotive will not be hard, a few manufacturers already offer bimode locomotives. Stadler have already built a bimode locomotive for HVLE in Germany which has 2.8kW of diesel engine power (for reference a class 66 has around 2.4kW) and can operate on 25kV overhead wires.

issue is German Loading Gauge is much larger than the UK one so they can fit quite a bit more for the same length, to fit same power a UK loco would need to be longer possibly needing to articulate in which case would be better as 2 loco's that can be controlled from each other

 

[GRALISTAIR]

More class 88s and wire everything suggested by Julian Worth in that famous presentation that identified with maps the lines needed. F2N is of course the big one.

 

[Trainician]

I think freight should be fully electrified because freight only lines are probably only 10 miles or less are easier to electrify

 

[EcsWhyZee]

More class 88s and wire everything suggested by Julian Worth in that famous presentation that identified with maps the lines needed. F2N is of course the big one.

I don't suppose you have a link to said presentation please?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I don't suppose you have a link to said presentation please?

Absolutely. There are a few but I will start with the best one by far imho.

On a conference he was just but one speaker and all the presentations are here. His generated most buzz: You can see he is number 3 - all are worth a read btw.
https://www.railwayelectrification.org/events all downloadable PDFs.

The Twitter feed lit up and his colleagues complimented him.
https://twitter.com/DavidShirres/status/1122923845177028608

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Here is another that talks around the subject and was the basis for the presentation.

Charting An Electric Freight Future

The title of this post, is the same as the title of an informative article in the April 2018 Edition of Modern Railways, which was written by Julian Worth, who has many years experience of the rail…

anonw.com

 

[GRALISTAIR]

More on Twitter

https://twitter.com/25kv/status/1122902409540460544

And here is the advertising to the event.

Campaign to Electrify Britain’s Railway – Birmingham Conference

The Campaign to Electrify Britain's Railway is holding its first conference on the 29th April 2019. The event will be held at Birmingham University's Centre for Railway Research and Education Centre. The free to all

www.railbusinessdaily.com

 

[GRALISTAIR]

This was the Modern Railways article where it was first mooted.

A TEST BED FOR LOW-COST WIRING

In the April issue, Julian Worth, Chair of the CILT Rail Freight...

www.keymodernrailways.com